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Digital Gaming => VR Gaming => Topic started by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 02:26:00 AM

Title: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 02:26:00 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlw7As0eO8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKlw7As0eO8)
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 22, 2021, 05:08:36 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. I actually got my hands on an original Oculus Quest but have not been able to get a GFX card that can handle it. Soon maybe...


living lives like... tiger woods

Hopefully not in a driving sim...
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 05:23:40 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. I actually got my hands on an original Oculus Quest but have not been able to get a GFX card that can handle it. Soon maybe...


living lives like... tiger woods

Hopefully not in a driving sim...

Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 22, 2021, 05:46:53 AM
You're probably right, it's the first generation headset but I can't check as it's packed away right now since I don't have that GFX card yet.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 06:05:47 AM
You're probably right, it's the first generation headset but I can't check as it's packed away right now since I don't have that GFX card yet.

Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: ArizonaTank on August 22, 2021, 10:48:21 AM
I was very excited by my Oculus Rift when I got it about three years ago. I even got three room sensors, and a PC and GFX card that could manage it well. My wife thought I was crazy until I got her to play Disney's Coco game (a great experience if you haven't tried it).

When Oculus Go came out, I jumped on it...told all my friends that at that price point...and given no special hardware requirements, VR would take over the world.

Then when Oculus Quest 2 came out, I again quickly jumped on...surely now I thought VR would be everything and I would never look back to the old desktop...

But after several years of VR...the excitement is over and I now think of VR as just another gaming accessory option. A very good one. But IMHO it is pretty obvious that the "killer" VR technology (the one that everyone will have to have) is still not with us.

Firstly, I love...love...love VR. But I probably only play it for about 10% of my gaming...

I think there are several reasons

-The VR technology does not replace the role of a desktop well. VR is mainly good at games, entertainment, and graphical software such as 3d drawing.  Sure you can get a VR desktop...but I have found them to be clumsy. I use my desktop for work...and no way I would put on a VR headset for work...so the desktop stays.

-VR headsets are still heavy and uncomfortable. In my case, wearing one for more than 30 minutes makes my face sweat where it touches the headset pad...not a great feeling...  This is even worse with Rift. It has room movement, so the games can sometimes be quite physical. A great thing in theory...but not when my face starts to sweat profusely. Then there is the issue of glasses...none of the three headsets I have handles my glasses well.

-Physical set up the VR rig is also a bit of a pain. The Rift with the three room sensors is the worst of course. The Oculus Go is no setup at all, but the content for the Go is just not there yet. The Quest 2 is easy in theory...but if I want to play Rift games, I have to use a USB cable... The USB 3.0 cable on my rig gets a little involved... Sometimes, I just want to turn on my computer and play. For this reason, I sometimes still play with the TrackIR instead of VR...TrackIR is already set up on my computer ready to go...I just need to put on my baseball cap.

-At least on the Oculus side, the Go, Rift and Quest are all different platforms, and not 100% compatible with each other. There are some games that only play on one or two of these. And then there is the issue that there are games that only play on a few makes of VR. For example, Fallout VR does not play on Oculus. Setup is also a little involved sometimes, and the VR software occasionally has a strange interaction with other applications.

-While many VR games are great...I still find that the best games are still desktop only.

Don't get me wrong, I love VR...and it has some really great experiences...but IMHO it is still not ready to replace my desktop as far as gaming is concerned...and maybe it never will...at least in my lifetime.

Having said all of this...I will probably get myself a Hive for Christmas.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 22, 2021, 11:25:37 AM
Do any of the more family-friendly VR games allow two people to play at the same time on the same computer?

I'd love to pursue it a bit more if i could also have my son try it if a second older headset is not too expensive (still need that pricy GFX card first) but i doubt I'd be able to afford two complete setups. Also, he's cognitively disabled so I wouldn't want any violent shooters, just stuff on par with the Lego Star Wars and similar PG movie inspired content.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 22, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
Do any of the more family-friendly VR games allow two people to play at the same time on the same computer?

I'd love to pursue it a bit more if i could also have my son try it if a second older headset is not too expensive (still need that pricy GFX card first) but i doubt I'd be able to afford two complete setups. Also, he's cognitively disabled so I wouldn't want any violent shooters, just stuff on par with the Lego Star Wars and similar PG movie inspired content.

The way to go for these types of games with multiple players is with the quest 2. You just need the two headsets and no computer. As far as running two headsets from the same computer. No. It wonít work.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 11:37:58 AM
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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 22, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
quest 2.

Thanks for the tip. I just went to look up the Quest 2 and it seems to be a great option, for what little I know of VR. Unfortunately, it's sold out on the Oculus website.

There are some third party sellers but they are asking $500-$600, or slightly less for used examples, while the Oculus site says the headset starts at $299. If I could get two for $600 it might be worth considering but paying those inflated prices now is a nonstarter. Any scuttlebutt on when Oculus themselves will have them back?
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 22, 2021, 12:22:09 PM
quest 2.

Thanks for the tip. I just went to look up the Quest 2 and it seems to be a great option, for what little I know of VR. Unfortunately, it's sold out on the Oculus website.

There are some third party sellers but they are asking $500-$600, or slightly less for used examples, while the Oculus site says the headset starts at $299. If I could get two for $600 it might be worth considering but paying those inflated prices now is a nonstarter. Any scuttlebutt on when Oculus themselves will have them back?

Target website says restock on 8/24.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 12:36:59 PM
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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 22, 2021, 02:30:54 PM
Thanks JH. I'll keep an eye on Target. I also signed up for email notification at Newegg.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 22, 2021, 09:34:38 PM
Thanks JH. I'll keep an eye on Target. I also signed up for email notification at Newegg.

If you are planning on buying a quest2, then I would use your time waiting to research a link cable, as you have to buy it seperate, what it does is alows you to connect to your desktop for desktop powered VR.

also I would like to point out that there are two versions of the quest 2, the memory is doubled on the more expensive one, but with a bit of file swapping and useing the link cable you would be ok on the cheap version
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 23, 2021, 05:26:54 AM
From what I have read the 'link cable' is just a bespoke USB-c cable, not sure how the whole 'fiber optic' moniker applies. Some online claim that a good quality long generic USB-c cable from Monoprice or Ankor works just as well.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 23, 2021, 05:44:32 AM
From what I have read the 'link cable' is just a bespoke USB-c cable, not sure how the whole 'fiber optic' moniker applies. Some online claim that a good quality long generic USB-c cable from Monoprice or Ankor works just as well.

This is true. You donít need to spend $60+ on the oculus version. In addition, if you really want to connect to a pc, you donít even need the link wire anymore. You can do it wirelessly through the air link feature.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 23, 2021, 06:01:04 AM
So now it'll just be a waiting game for stock to build up. The current world chip shortage can't be helping either.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: ArizonaTank on August 23, 2021, 06:04:10 AM
From what I have read the 'link cable' is just a bespoke USB-c cable, not sure how the whole 'fiber optic' moniker applies. Some online claim that a good quality long generic USB-c cable from Monoprice or Ankor works just as well.

I have both the Quest bespoke cable and an after market one. I can't rightly say there is a difference in performance. The bespoke cable is much more expensive and comes in a pretty box however...:)

BTW, you will need the cable if you want to run Rift games. I believe all / most of the games on Steam are Rift games.

I found this part of the Quest 2 marketing to be a bit of bait and switch frankly.

The advertising talks about a cable free experience...and that does work for the Quest content.

But then when you want to play a Rift game (like something you see on Steam), you need to tether yourself to your desktop with the USB-c cable. So you will also need a more recent PC with a high speed USB port.

Also, although I haven't checked recently, the  content available for Quest was good, but not as rich as what is available for the Rift. I expect this will get better over time.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: ArizonaTank on August 23, 2021, 06:09:40 AM
From what I have read the 'link cable' is just a bespoke USB-c cable, not sure how the whole 'fiber optic' moniker applies. Some online claim that a good quality long generic USB-c cable from Monoprice or Ankor works just as well.

This is true. You donít need to spend $60+ on the oculus version. In addition, if you really want to connect to a pc, you donít even need the link wire anymore. You can do it wirelessly through the air link feature.

I was not aware they had done air link.  I will check it out.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 23, 2021, 06:13:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35qk7g54cmI

wait till 28th OCt  , check the youtube link here. facebook connect is on the 28th oct and may be news about quest pro or something
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 23, 2021, 08:26:31 AM
From what I have read the 'link cable' is just a bespoke USB-c cable, not sure how the whole 'fiber optic' moniker applies. Some online claim that a good quality long generic USB-c cable from Monoprice or Ankor works just as well.

This is true. You donít need to spend $60+ on the oculus version. In addition, if you really want to connect to a pc, you donít even need the link wire anymore. You can do it wirelessly through the air link feature.

I was not aware they had done air link.  I will check it out.

Yeah...to connect wireless, you used to have to buy a third-party app called Virtual Desktop. I guess Facebook got sick of people using a paid third-party application, so they released an update a few months ago that added the air link option. Depending on your router, you will likely still get better performance with the direct wired link, but performance is still good with most games and applications. 

FWIW, I think Oculus and Facebook are taking VR in the wrong direction. They are moving away from AAA type games and moving to what I would describe as a more social, casual, online, multi-player type experience. Because they have a huge market share and the Quest headset is so easy to use and affordable, the model must be proving successful. But the real power of VR is with the desktop and hardcore gamers so I hope companies like HP, HTC, Pimax, etc. will continue to evolve the technology for high end applications.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: ArizonaTank on August 23, 2021, 11:35:02 AM
FWIW, I think Oculus and Facebook are taking VR in the wrong direction...

I agree. I saw on the video link above that Zuck got on CBS with Gayle King and did a virtual interview, pushing "Horizon Workrooms" a VR app that allows businesses to set up virtual space meetings. Think VR Zoom. 

In my mind, I think the vision is right, but the technology is just not there yet. It took a pandemic to get some of my less technically inclined co-workers to use a camera...I can't see them enthusiastically putting on a VR headset for hours at time while working. Maybe when headsets are more like glasses in terms of weight and ease of use (ie. not heavy and quickly set up, like putting on or taking off a pair of glasses), the VR workspace will take off.

Instead of "Workrooms," I think that Oculus should be focusing on gaming, entertainment and 3D graphical solutions for industry. Those will fund the continued improvement of the technology. Then someday, it will be ready for VR workspaces. 

Also, the VR industry really needs to work at developing platform standards... I don't know which of the various platforms will turn out to be the "Betamax" (given that about 60% of the VR headsets on Steam are Oculus...it isn't Oculus), but whomever it is...they need to cave in and rally around one, at most two standard platforms. 
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 23, 2021, 12:33:24 PM
The technology still needs to improve, no question, but I think that could be said about all high-end PC hardware. I am constantly tweaking and fiddling with my game rigs to get one thing or another working the way I think it should, or to maximize performance. I think the apex predators in gaming deal with these frustrations and limitations, are prepared for them and are able to solve many of the problems they experience. So, the state of the technology does not hold these people back, but will really only have an impact on the more casual users, of which there are certainly many and I understand companies like Oculus/Facebook want to tap into that.

I will say though that some of my own experience is indicative of your point that VR still has a way to go...My VR rig set-up for simming is very cumbersome. I've got all kinds of peripheral devices poking about. They are mounted to chairs, desks, stands, etc. They are by my feet, at my sides, to the front, etc.  I climb into a chair modeled on the F-16c ACES II ejection seat. By the time I get situated, I'm often times out of breath. lol.  I can't tell you how frustrating it can be to go through all that only to put the headset on and have there be some issue with tracking, connection, resolution or performance. It happens not frequently, but often enough to make me think twice about whether I want to go through the effort in order to play.

FWIW, you mentioned the base stations in your initial post and being frustrated by them. For your next headset, maybe look into a set that uses inside-out tracking and does not utilize the external base stations. The Reverb G2 is a great option there.  I've also enjoyed the Rift-S, but as you may know, they aren't being supported anymore by Oculus. Another sign that they are going in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 23, 2021, 10:35:45 PM
  I've also enjoyed the Rift-S, but as you may know, they aren't being supported anymore by Oculus.

JH , am I understanding this right oculus has dumped the rift?
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 23, 2021, 11:06:55 PM
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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 24, 2021, 05:23:32 AM
All headsets are cross-compatible now. They will all pretty much run through steam VR or the oculus app. Some require windows mixed reality to be installed or their own software, like the Pitool for Pimax, but they all run games from steam/oculus dashboard.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 06:08:33 AM
thx JH, I may saveup for a vive or something,
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 24, 2021, 06:53:12 AM
thx JH, I may saveup for a vive or something,

Depends on what you are looking for. What maters most to you? Room scale experience with solid tracking and good VR controls? High resolution and clarity? Wide FOV? There is really no one headset that does it all, rather they all tend to excel at one or two things over others.

I have the HTC Vive, Rift-S, Quest 2, HP Reverb G1, HP Reverb G2 and a Pimax 8KX, so I've experienced pretty much the full spectrum.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 07:39:13 AM


https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/Offer.aspx?p=b-vr-backpack
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 09:45:15 AM

https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/Offer.aspx?p=b-vr-backpack
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 24, 2021, 10:10:26 AM
Personally, I don't mind the cords. I don't really see a need for that back-pack get up. I play in a relatively small space in my home office. When I want to play in a different space, I just use the Quest 2.  I can really only see the back-pack being useful for large scale VR play, like for purposes of training, or commercial gaming in a big open space.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 24, 2021, 08:19:46 PM
FWIW, I got notice earlier today that that the 128 gig Quest 2 was back in stock at Newegg.com for $299 so I ordered one. I was at work so I didn't have time to post here. Now it looks like they are all sold out again. There was a 1 unit limit so I'll need to wait for the 256 gig model ('Coming soon!') if I want another to multiplay with my son. Hopefully they keep the $299 price point...

I've got a quick question for those of you that have any Oculus headsets that require a facebook login:

Do you use your personal account or did you create a second random account so you don't give up yet more metrics from your personal account to FB??

Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 10:26:06 PM
I was one of those people who never had a FB account, so I had to create one for oculus, and i set everything to private and have no friends
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 24, 2021, 11:10:09 PM
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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Pete Dero on August 25, 2021, 02:12:44 AM
FWIW, I got notice earlier today that that the 128 gig Quest 2 was back in stock at Newegg.com for $299 so I ordered one. I was at work so I didn't have time to post here. Now it looks like they are all sold out again. There was a 1 unit limit so I'll need to wait for the 256 gig model ('Coming soon!') if I want another to multiplay with my son. Hopefully they keep the $299 price point...

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639523/oculus-quest-2-pause-sale-recall-base-model-storage

In addition to the new silicon cover, the $299 base model Quest 2 also gets a bump in minimum storage from 64GB to 128GB. The $399 256GB model isnít currently in stock on the Oculus website, though Facebook tells The Verge that it expects availability to begin rolling out next week.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 25, 2021, 03:06:38 AM
after watching some youtube, I have got the rumours about the quest 2, first off they plan to support it for a long time, so the pro version will be the same but a better cooling sytem to up the clock so it runs Q2 but smoother, so all the Q2 game devs can keep deving for both Q2 and Pro.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Staggerwing on August 25, 2021, 04:33:21 AM
FWIW, I got notice earlier today that that the 128 gig Quest 2 was back in stock at Newegg.com for $299 so I ordered one. I was at work so I didn't have time to post here. Now it looks like they are all sold out again. There was a 1 unit limit so I'll need to wait for the 256 gig model ('Coming soon!') if I want another to multiplay with my son. Hopefully they keep the $299 price point...

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639523/oculus-quest-2-pause-sale-recall-base-model-storage

In addition to the new silicon cover, the $299 base model Quest 2 also gets a bump in minimum storage from 64GB to 128GB. The $399 256GB model isnít currently in stock on the Oculus website, though Facebook tells The Verge that it expects availability to begin rolling out next week.


Interesting about the foam. Those silicon cover might in themselves be a problem because a not insignificant number of people are allergic to silicon, resulting in sometimes severe contact dermatitis. This is why medical gloves are mostly nitrile now.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 25, 2021, 05:16:58 AM
FWIW, I got notice earlier today that that the 128 gig Quest 2 was back in stock at Newegg.com for $299 so I ordered one. I was at work so I didn't have time to post here. Now it looks like they are all sold out again. There was a 1 unit limit so I'll need to wait for the 256 gig model ('Coming soon!') if I want another to multiplay with my son. Hopefully they keep the $299 price point...

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/24/22639523/oculus-quest-2-pause-sale-recall-base-model-storage

In addition to the new silicon cover, the $299 base model Quest 2 also gets a bump in minimum storage from 64GB to 128GB. The $399 256GB model isnít currently in stock on the Oculus website, though Facebook tells The Verge that it expects availability to begin rolling out next week.


Interesting about the foam. Those silicon cover might in themselves be a problem because a not insignificant number of people are allergic to silicon, resulting in sometimes severe contact dermatitis. This is why medical gloves are mostly nitrile now.

That is pretty funny and I didnít think of that.  Ironic that they switched to silicon because of complaints about the foam causing irritation only to risk the same issue with silicon. I was not bothered by the foam, but I requested the silicon ďupgradeĒ just to have. It arrived the other day.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 25, 2021, 05:22:28 AM
@Staggerwing my first piece of advice to you is to buy SUPERHOT VR (I believe its available for the Quest) and put an order in for a link cable so you can experience desktop power VR.

My advice is to hold off on getting the link cable, unless there is something that is pc based that you absolutely want to run. It sounds to me that youíre getting the quest to play with your kid, so the cable is most likely unnecessary and you can save yourself the ridiculous $60. The whole point of the quest is that you can play it anywhere and do not need to link it to a pc, and remember, there is always the air link anyway. You do not need a cable to connect to the pc anymore on the quest.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 25, 2021, 06:01:01 AM

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Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 25, 2021, 07:27:56 AM
Yeah...I have six headsets, 5 of which are plugged into a PC, so I have the luxury of not absolutely requiring a cable for the Quest 2 and I can use it as a mobile device the way it was intended. Ultimately, a cable is a good thing to have, but if money is an issue and there is no particular desktop experience you are looking for, I think the over-priced cable can be safely skipped.

That being said, my PC-based experiences have not really been as high-fidelity as what you describe. Most VR games, in my experience, are not "photo-realistic". Some are very exceptional, such as Half-Life Aylx and some of the sandbox based gun games, like Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades, but I never really feel like I'm not playing a game. The beauty of VR is the immersive feeling you get from stepping into the virtual world. For me, it still feels like a virtual world, but it is one that I am actually IN. Personally, and in particular, with flight sims and first-person shooters, the attachment to that immersive feeling makes it very hard to go back to traditional 2D style gaming.

I was the same way when I first got VR. My jaw dropped too and I thought it was going to be the end-all, be-all for gaming...but that does wear-off somewhat and the struggle of constantly trying to maximize performance, settings, clarity, etc. does begin to wear you down. I still find myself sometimes playing standard games over VR ones because my time is so limited and I don't want to waste it trying to get everything working the way I expect it too. Much of this frustration comes from DCS, which is very poorly optimized for VR, but when its working and firing on all cylinders...just wow. Its an amazing experience. Still, in general, I would say technical issues are common across the board with PC-based VR applications. Like AZ Tank suggested, the technology still needs to advance.  You can track my experiences through the history of my posts here...from the awe of my first experience through all my experimentation and frustration...its interesting see how my feelings on the technology matured and evolved.
Title: Re: May I pass on this Point Non VRers wont know
Post by: MiniHexer on August 25, 2021, 08:08:28 AM
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