Author Topic: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...  (Read 2001 times)

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Offline BanzaiCat

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Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« on: August 02, 2016, 06:52:36 PM »
Maybe someone out there knows far better than I about this.

I'm trying to figure out if the Americans knew which Japanese aircraft carriers attacked them at Pearl Harbor. I'm assuming not, but maybe they picked it up eventually, and if so, does anyone know when or how they found this out?

Also, the Akagi was the flagship of the Japanese First Air Fleet. Did the Americans know that? Did they know that before, during, or not know until after, the war?

Offline mirth

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 07:22:04 PM »
Maybe someone out there knows far better than I about this.

I'm trying to figure out if the Americans knew which Japanese aircraft carriers attacked them at Pearl Harbor. I'm assuming not, but maybe they picked it up eventually, and if so, does anyone know when or how they found this out?

Also, the Akagi was the flagship of the Japanese First Air Fleet. Did the Americans know that? Did they know that before, during, or not know until after, the war?

My guess is that the Americans did know the composition of the Kido Butai. It couldn't have been hard to discern. It was all of the Japanese carriers at the time. 

You're best bet for definitive information is probably here:

http://combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 07:33:44 PM »
Thanks, mirth.

Offline besilarius

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 05:27:52 AM »
John Prados' Combined Fleet: Decoded may have some material.
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 05:30:51 AM »
I think you mentioned that one before, bes, and I thank you for the reminder. I looked it up on Amazon but didn't get it, at least not yet.  O0

Offline bbmike

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 05:35:23 AM »
I recently finished The Rising Sun by John Toland. If I remember correctly I don't think that all of the Japanese carriers were involved in the attack. My guess is that they wouldn't know until sometime after the attack.
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Offline Staggerwing

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 05:52:07 AM »
If it's any help, here's the wiki page for the Kidō Butai:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Air_Fleet_(Imperial_Japanese_Navy)

Note that it lists the associated carriers for the date 4/10/41 and 12/10/41 as opposed to 12/7/41. For some reason I recall that there were 6 carriers involved in Pearl Harbor.
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Offline bbmike

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 05:55:28 AM »
There were six carriers involved, that I do remember. But I think they had about that many more elsewhere.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 05:58:15 AM by bbmike »
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 08:17:32 AM »
Yep, there were indeed six. I just wondered if U.S. Naval Intelligence knew (or suspected) which ones attacked, and if they knew the Akagi was the flagship of the First Carrier Division.

I mean, if a lucky submarine skipper managed to sink the Akagi in the Marshal Islands on his boat's first war patrol, it would help me frame the story I'm telling in a more believable manner. But I might as well just take creative license with it.

Offline bbmike

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 09:54:36 AM »
If you mean sink the Akagi on the way to Pearl, that couldn't have happened in the Marshal Islands. The fleet went on a northern route well above where they might have been expected. After Pearl, I think that might be ok.
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor - question...
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2016, 12:31:06 PM »
No, I'm referring to my AAR of the solitaire board game, Silent Victory. This takes place after Pearl Harbor. There's a very small chance a player can run across a CV, and I managed to do it. I'll describe it once I get around to posting about it.