About 8,000 US troops are deploying to secure evacuations from Kabul

[GDS_Starfury]

no doubt the whole thing was a shit show.  no doubt that intel was in serious short supply.  no doubt that all of the Lt. Col. points are completely valid.
I just think he chose a very bad path to get his msg out.

[Dammit Carl!]

But don't the military swear an oath to, "The Constitution" not any President, or administration? I don't see how questioning the actions of superior officers violates that. But that's just me after all.

When someone is talking smack at a "national media notice," level, then I dare say some very strongly worded memos have wound their way out of the Pentagon to lower, and in typical military fashion, someone has to be the example of what not to do.

[z1812]

no doubt the whole thing was a shit show.  no doubt that intel was in serious short supply.  no doubt that all of the Lt. Col. points are completely valid.
I just think he chose a very bad path to get his msg out.

If I recall correctly his option to retire was not far off. As you mentioned earlier he might have been wiser to wait for his retirement to publish his concerns. I do hope all works out well for him.

[Jarhead0331]

no doubt the whole thing was a shit show.  no doubt that intel was in serious short supply.  no doubt that all of the Lt. Col. points are completely valid.
I just think he chose a very bad path to get his msg out.

If I recall correctly his option to retire was not far off. As you mentioned earlier he might have been wiser to wait for his retirement to publish his concerns. I do hope all works out well for him.

I understand that the concept of putting the health and security of the Nation and one's brothers and sisters in arms above the interests of one's self is foreign to most Americans. The fact of the matter is that LT COL Scheller clearly felt the need was urgent enough to go public with his concerns immediately. In his opinion, the failure of the highest level of leadership in the military is dire and the inability for them to accept any accountability and the consequences of this inability do not permit him to remain silent. Certainly not for the three years until his retirement. Furthermore, the strength and power behind the willingness of one in Scheller's shoes to risk all and put everything on the line to get his message across speaks for itself.

So, yes. Was it a decision with severe personal consequences? Absolutely. Was it a decision that took great personal courage? Absolutely. Was it a decision that was made in the best interests of the country and the military? Absolutely. That this leader would be criticized or chastised for making public his concerns is incredible to me. It was certainly not the easy path to take, and for that, he should be commended. He is exactly the kind of leader the military and this country needs.

[GDS_Starfury]

I think the disconnect here is that you think that someone like myself is criticizing his concerns.  I'm not.  I'm criticizing his timing of going public with those concerns.  for that I think he jumped the gun and supposedly ruined his and his families life for a message thats already disappeared into the ether.

[Jarhead0331]

I think the disconnect here is that you think that someone like myself is criticizing his concerns.  I'm not.  I'm criticizing his timing of going public with those concerns.  for that I think he jumped the gun and supposedly ruined his and his families life for a message thats already disappeared into the ether.

Why do you think he jumped the gun? 12 American Marines and 1 Navy sailor had just been killed. How many more would have to die before it wouldn't have been "jumping the gun"? Like I said, the notion that some might risk their own personal liberty and comfort to save the lives of brothers and sisters in arms is foreign to most Americans. He mentioned in his videos that he discussed this with his family before he went public. It is obviously a decision they made together.

[Sir Slash]

I think the timing of his statement was the most courageous part of his video. Just when everybody else in the military and government was keeping their mouths shut to, 'Go along to get along' is when Col. Scheller decided to speak-up. The easiest thing to do would've been wait until he had nothing to risk, then ask his questions.

[GDS_Starfury]

I can agree to disagree.

[solops]

I think the timing of his statement was the most courageous part of his video. Just when everybody else in the military and government was keeping their mouths shut to, 'Go along to get along' is when Col. Scheller decided to speak-up. The easiest thing to do would've been wait until he had nothing to risk, then ask his questions.

+1

[Jarhead0331]

Ward Carroll is a former Tomcat RIO who now has a pretty popular youtube series. He typically talks about aviation related topics, but sometimes delves into other topics.

I find his summary and overview of this situation to be very detailed and thoughtful. He flags all the key highlights and boils it down very well and in a balanced manner. It even has me looking at the situation in a bit of a different light. In particular, I was interested in his thoughts on the consequences of Scheller's actions to his direct chain of command and think they are particularly insightful.

It is worth watching for everyone with an interest.

[Atilla60]

no doubt the whole thing was a shit show.  no doubt that intel was in serious short supply.  no doubt that all of the Lt. Col. points are completely valid.
I just think he chose a very bad path to get his msg out.

If I recall correctly his option to retire was not far off. As you mentioned earlier he might have been wiser to wait for his retirement to publish his concerns. I do hope all works out well for him.

I understand that the concept of putting the health and security of the Nation and one's brothers and sisters in arms above the interests of one's self is foreign to most Americans. The fact of the matter is that LT COL Scheller clearly felt the need was urgent enough to go public with his concerns immediately. In his opinion, the failure of the highest level of leadership in the military is dire and the inability for them to accept any accountability and the consequences of this inability do not permit him to remain silent. Certainly not for the three years until his retirement. Furthermore, the strength and power behind the willingness of one in Scheller's shoes to risk all and put everything on the line to get his message across speaks for itself.

So, yes. Was it a decision with severe personal consequences? Absolutely. Was it a decision that took great personal courage? Absolutely. Was it a decision that was made in the best interests of the country and the military? Absolutely. That this leader would be criticized or chastised for making public his concerns is incredible to me. It was certainly not the easy path to take, and for that, he should be commended. He is exactly the kind of leader the military and this country needs.

Once upon a time that was called integrity.

[GDS_Starfury]

thanks for finding that JH  :bd:  very good analysis

[Jarhead0331]

...and an extremely lenient sentence. Letter of reprimand and forfeiture of pay for one month in the amount of $5,000.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/scheller-marine-who-criticized-afghanistan-withdrawal-sentenced-reprimand-pay-forfeiture

[Gusington]

The last line, especially the first two points, will cement his legacy as a hero to everyone who served under him and beyond:

"His other charges include contempt toward officers, disrespect toward superior commissioned officers and failure to obey order or regulation."

[Lowenstaat]

...and an extremely lenient sentence. Letter of reprimand and forfeiture of pay for one month in the amount of $5,000.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/scheller-marine-who-criticized-afghanistan-withdrawal-sentenced-reprimand-pay-forfeiture

It is an "extremely lenient sentence" indeed.

During his 1925 court martial for violating the 96th Article of War, Colonel Billy Mitchell pleaded not guilty to charges brought against him by the Secretary of War at the direction of President Coolidge. The court found Mitchell guilty of the charges and then suspended him from duty and ordered the forfeiture of all his pay and allowances for five years.

https://www.historynet.com/the-court-martial-of-colonel-bill-mitchell.htm

https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0812mitchell/

30 years later, actor Gary Cooper portrayed Mitchell in the Otto Preminger directed motion picture titled "The Court-Martial of Billy Mitchell."

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047956/