Author Topic: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?  (Read 48300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2014, 02:44:22 PM »
let me spell it out for you Barny style.
the F-35 uses its fuel as a heat sink for the massive amount of electronic systems it carries.  the colder the fuel the better the performance.  older aircraft were liberally covered in vents and grating to take care of this waste heat.  the F-35 doesn't due to its stealth characteristics.  this is why the fuel is used.  the same set up was used to some degree (<- thats how its done BC) in the SR-71.  fuel temps, even at Luke, are not effecting the planes ability to do its job.  the repainted trucks just let it get off the ground under ideal conditions.  as Ive said, the plane has already passed the tests needed to be operational.   the whole issue is a non-starter.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2014, 07:31:24 PM »
lets see.... some more info.

Quote
The USAF Has To Re-Paint Its Trucks Because The F-35 Can’t Fly On Warm Fuel

After a year of several fleet-wide groundings for the F-35, the latest problem to plague the fifth-generation fighter is forcing the U.S. Air Force to revamp an entirely separate fleet to support the military’s most expensive plane yet.
The F-35 can only fly on jet fuel under a certain temperature due to a range of heating issues attributed to the F-35B variant’s short takeoff and vertical landing engine. According to the USAF, the dark-green trucks that carry that fuel absorb too much heat from the sun to keep the planes in the sky.
That presents a serious logistical problem for an advanced multi-role fleet expected to maintain U.S. air superiority in areas of potential conflict such as the Middle East and South Pacific — areas with no shortage of sunlight.

so the problem is limited, once again, to the Marines version of the F-35.  this has been the most problematic version by an order of magnitude.  however it doesnt stop this version from flying.

Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2014, 07:49:42 PM »
from a conversation at F-16.net:

Quote
The F/A-18 has a number of fuel temperature limits; one that comes to mind is if you are on the ground, have less than 1,000 pounds of fuel, and external temperatures exceed 30C, the Hornet will fairly quickly throw a Airframe Mounted Accessory Drive warning light, which the listed procedure is to shut down the engine involved.

If you are in the air with less than 4,000 pounds fuel remaining at low altitude, the pilot is required to monitor fuel temperatures as again, the Airframe Mounted Accessory Drive could overheat. In fact, if the fuel temperature exceeds 75C, the NATOPS says you need to land immediately.

Also, in hot weather conditions, the NATOPS says one needs to keep all non-essential electronics shut down while on the ground unless you are just about to take off.

The F-16's flight manual also indicates that there are engine fuel temperature limits; if the hot fuel warning light goes off, you are limited to 10,000ft maximum altitude and you need to increase fuel consumption to 4000pph, until you can land, which you are required to do so immediately.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline endfire79

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2014, 07:58:41 PM »
Thanks for pointing those out.  There's all those little 'subtleties' that make aviation such a broad and interesting topic to get into :) 

"I will return before you can say 'antidisestablishmentarianism'."

"A man may fight for many things. His country, his principles, his friends. The glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn."

Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2014, 08:12:28 PM »
its kind of like some yahoo dipshit who knows nothing about driving commenting on how a F1 car is useless because it cant turn sharply on cold tires.
its a $100+ million aircraft that we want to get the most out of.  a $3900 repaint of a fuel truck is nothing.  some things come to mind about this.
1.  if your airfield is being directly attacked you already fucked up enough that a white truck isnt making a damn bit of difference.
2. forward airfields are going to be using inflated fuel bladders not trucks and those are generally semi or fully buried.
3. the Marine version of the F-35 is responsible for 90% of the programs problems.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Windigo

  • Arquebusier
  • ***
  • Posts: 15357
  • Falschirmgrogheads HQ lackey
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2014, 10:56:13 AM »
My doctor wrote me a prescription for daily sex.

My wife insists that it says dyslexia but what does she know.

Offline endfire79

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2014, 01:33:27 PM »
Nobody can flip it like windy
"I will return before you can say 'antidisestablishmentarianism'."

"A man may fight for many things. His country, his principles, his friends. The glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn."

Offline besilarius

  • Landsknecht
  • *******
  • Posts: 5378
  • ringmaster at circus amateur night
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2014, 06:40:07 AM »
Here is an Australian engineers comments on the F-35B:

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lhd-and-stovl-an-engineers-view/
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

Offline besilarius

  • Landsknecht
  • *******
  • Posts: 5378
  • ringmaster at circus amateur night
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2014, 06:46:15 AM »
Here is an Australian engineers comments on the F-35B:

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/lhd-and-stovl-an-engineers-view/
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2014, 06:58:39 AM »
interesting perspective.  thanks for finding that one.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline mirth

  • Tercio
  • ******
  • Posts: 48613
  • Cardboard Harlot
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2014, 07:11:21 AM »
interesting perspective.  thanks for finding that one.

+1 Good read. Thanks Bes.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

  • Crossbowman
  • *
  • Posts: 6704
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #56 on: December 26, 2014, 11:28:07 PM »
I'll go along with the Aussie's review. The real question is something completely different. An ex designer of the Harrier said (article posted somewhere here) that the Russians had easily defeated stealth. For any other military problem a 4th gen strikefighter is plenty. The F35 only matters as an insurance policy to dissuade Russian agression. Is it true this insurance policy has a big hole clause, if you take my meaning? If so you simply dont buy that policy. The old article said "long wave" was the problem, which I translated mentally to heat. High speed jets must have a lot of frictional heat, especially visible during night ops which have become popular. I'm sure saying that is noappifany to the russian aerospace people, so I put it down for wargamer consumption. In thepast it was the US that had the monopoly on sattelites. These days many countries have many sattelites doing God knows what. Probably many are looking for signs of military movements. The days of fog of war are ending. I doubt anyone can mask infared streaks of jets from sattelites.

How exactly is the f35 better than the cheap f16 in this environment?

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2014, 11:57:20 PM »
because it can mask most of its emissions, even the thermal stuff.  take a good look at F-22/F-35 paint jobs and ask yourself why.  :coolsmiley:
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

  • Crossbowman
  • *
  • Posts: 6704
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2014, 11:26:44 AM »
It can mix the heat plume with air, it cannot reverse thermodynamics.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

  • Musketeer
  • *****
  • Posts: 37484
  • Sons of Punarchy
Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2014, 11:53:34 AM »
modern paint is way more then a coat of paint.

Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.