Author Topic: Goodbye to the Warthog?  (Read 8069 times)

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Offline BanzaiCat

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Goodbye to the Warthog?
« on: December 13, 2013, 09:23:42 AM »
End looms for US Air Force's 'Warthog' ground-attack jet

http://news.yahoo.com/end-looms-us-air-force-39-39-warthog-115956604.html

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Washington (AFP) - Long disliked by the US Air Force, the A-10 Thunderbolt II ground-attack jet may finally be heading for the chopping block due to budget constraints.

The "Warthog," first designed as a tank buster to target Soviet armored vehicles in the middle of the Cold War in the early 1970s, is shunned by many aviators.

Although the twin-engine aircraft is slow, it is incredibly efficient at providing close air support for ground forces, making it an appreciated asset for the US Army.

But the US Air Force "never had a whole lot of interest in a subsonic close-air support plane," explained Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst with consulting firm Teal Group.

Some of the comments are very interesting:

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As an airborne infantry vet, I saw these at first hand views... saw one take practically a very sharp, almost vertical nose dive straight down... I just stared at it and thought, "turn up, turn up! you're gonna burn in!" it fell below a tree line just a few hundred feet from our position and I honestly expected to see an explosion, but this plane was able to turn up somewhere on just the other side... These planes rock! I always felt a sense of more security knowing these planes were overhead!... We can't just scrap them! I wish I had a piolets license, I'd buy one! Hate to see them go!
...
From a recipient of the benefits of the A-10 I'm sad to see it go. It's not as sexy, fast or hi-tech as any other "fast mover" but it puts rounds on target and scares the hell out of any enemy ground troops. If ever you've had the displeasure of receiving the business end of that 30mm canon you'd know what I mean and if you've ever called in CAS and all the A-10 had was the 30mm then you'd be happy to hear that grinding "brapp" sound of the 30mm putting rounds on target.
...
So let's get this straight. We probably will be dealing with insurrections and terrorist groups for a long, long time. We have a plane that actually worked well in both Iraq and Afghanistan and probably more places than we care to know of, and the Brass wants to scrap it. Make a lot of sense. Now we have an F-35 fighter which most likely will continue to cost a fortune, isn't proven and we're going to pay millions and millions in cost overruns, and probably could be defeated by an F-15 Silent Eagle, but we can't have that can we? Jeez, and I wonder why the U.S. is going broke.


Offline mirth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 09:27:00 AM »
We need to let the Army operate fixed-wing CAS.
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 10:00:35 AM »
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Speaking Thursday before the American Enterprise Institute think-tank in Washington, Welsh stressed that to make the same savings of $3.7 billion, "we would have to shut down three to four times as many F-16s squadrons as we do A-10s."

I dont buy that bit at all.  the A-10 is one of the cheapest aircraft to operate that I know of.
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Offline mirth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 10:06:44 AM »
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Speaking Thursday before the American Enterprise Institute think-tank in Washington, Welsh stressed that to make the same savings of $3.7 billion, "we would have to shut down three to four times as many F-16s squadrons as we do A-10s."

I dont buy that bit at all.  the A-10 is one of the cheapest aircraft to operate that I know of.

Yeah, that sounds like bunk to me as well.

This part made me laugh out loud

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"...we have to be very honest with ourselves inside the Air Force about how much we can afford"

Where's that honesty been with the F-35?
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 10:07:51 AM »
Or the B-2, for that matter.

Offline DoctorQuest

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 10:11:11 AM »
Or ANYTHING in the DOD budget.
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 10:14:01 AM »
I also recall that the AF signed contracts last year for new wings for the A-10 fleet.
it seems like every year theres a story about retiering the A-10 and it doesnt happen.
we'll see.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 10:17:15 AM »
Is it true that the A-10 is "shunned by many aviators?" I'm sure it handles like a pig and it's slow, but hell, to have that kind of CAS power between your legs...must be how Mirth feels on date night.

Offline mirth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 10:20:40 AM »
Fighter jocks hate anything subsonic. And air-to-mud has never been popular with the AF. Yet they continue to fight the Army on operating fixed-wing CAS aircraft.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 10:22:21 AM »
I agree with your earlier statement, that the Army should be dealing with these CAS assets and not the Air Force.

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 10:38:09 AM »
given the choice Id rather fly an A-10 then a F-16 or F-15.  I think it would be a lot more fun!
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline LongBlade

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 10:51:51 AM »
I guess the question is: with so much precision munition, is CAS still necessary?

My gut tells me yes, but I really do not know. It's not an area I've ever looked into.

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 11:03:13 AM »
smart weapons cost a lot of money.  30mm shells dont.   ;D
Im pretty sure that it also costs a lot less money to patch 23mm hole in an A-10 vs a F-16 or F-35.  that is if the F-16 or F-35 can make it back to base.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2013, 11:08:18 AM »
Also, what one of the commentators said was priceless - that it scares the hell out of the enemy. There's something to be said for that giant flying titanium-lined tank bearing down on your position and when that BRRRRRRRAAAAPPPP starts.




Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2013, 11:10:06 AM »
The only reason its survived since the 80s is that every time they try to cut it, the Army finds some Congressman to introduce a bill transferring them from the USAF to the Army, which promptly causes the USAF to do an about-face and decide to hang onto them after all.  It's not that the USAF really *wants* it, they just don't want the Army to have it.
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