Author Topic: Goodbye to the Warthog?  (Read 8060 times)

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Offline endfire79

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2013, 03:45:10 PM »
I'm thinking of the SU-25 Frogfoot. I wonder what their operators think of that platforms future?
Or was the experimental IL-102 the 'real' Warsaw pact version of a CAS type aircraft?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:49:59 PM by endfire79 »
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Offline Staggerwing

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2013, 04:57:08 PM »
Or was the experimental IL-102 the 'real' Warsaw pact version of a CAS type aircraft?

Dang, I'd never heard of the IL-102 so I googled a pic:



Note the backward-facing gunner's position. He controlled the two 23mm cannon in the end of the tail.
The prototypes were developed from an earlier IL design (IL-40) which just oozes with that stark early postwar Sovtech design zeitgeist:

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Offline mirth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2013, 05:01:46 PM »
I'm thinking of the SU-25 Frogfoot. I wonder what their operators think of that platforms future?
Or was the experimental IL-102 the 'real' Warsaw pact version of a CAS type aircraft?

The Sovs, excuse me the Russkies, have a long history of dedicated ground attack aircraft.
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Offline eyebiter

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« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 05:42:03 PM »
.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 05:36:54 AM by eyebiter »

Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 06:00:37 PM »




What a big nose you have.

I wonder if ground forces have their own truck with 50km missiles that drops a 1-5 spread of 500lb'ers on the enemy location. Your troops call it in with binos delivering gps data. No hanging around under fire waiting for a plane to show up. The splat hits within 3 minutes. Move on.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 06:03:11 PM »
we call the MLRS.  8)
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Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2013, 06:08:09 PM »
So what use is CAS if you are well supported with your own rockets, 50km, 100km, 250km to advance the front? Planes are really deep strike systems. You see all those parades of 2nd rate militaries showing off their missile trucks. The reality is it is a cost effective system. It's nice to have 50 million $ planes swarming everywhere until you get the bill.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2013, 06:12:07 PM »
for one you cant retask a ballistic missile in flight.
nor can you have a missile hang out overhead for a few hours waiting for something to happen.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2013, 06:25:07 PM »
If you can put guidance on a plane dropped bomb, you can put it on a missile lofted bomb. Yes, im saying a few standard 500 lbrs in the nose-cone. If you want to direct it to miss at the last moment you can send it new coordinates.

Why loiter burning jp5 when the truck can loiter for weeks with the engine off.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2013, 06:53:50 PM »
theres also the fact that having human eyes above talking about what he sees to the grunts below helps tremendously.
after some digging it would seem a M28 rocket costs $95,000.  thats a little over a million per salvo for one fire mission.  A-10s dont cost that much to fly for a week. here:
http://nation.time.com/2013/04/02/costly-flight-hours/

$17,000 per hour to fly.  it is by far the cheapest manned combat aircraft on that list.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2013, 07:02:58 PM »
So almost 3 mill per week to protect an area. How many areas do you need to protect? You also have about 1 mill per pilot trained. You also forgot this little problem of buying all those planes. 12 mill each not including parts, maint, crews, hangars, all kinds of stuff.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2013, 07:15:06 PM »
dude... A-10 were bought and paid for decades ago when they were even cheaper.  it costs less to fly then a VIP Lear Jet per hour.  the next cheapest thing is a Cessna.  your talking about buying more MLRS and all the men, training, parts and bs that go with that.  A-10s are cheap to fly, armored like a tank, strike fear into the enemy and make problems go BOOM because they can sling a weapons by the literal fucktons. 
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2013, 07:16:33 PM »
You also need 3 of all of that for every area needing potential 24hr sorties. Then more so you can be loading planes while others are delivering. Up to what 30 planes per squadron? 1 squadron for every 100km of front?
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2013, 07:19:12 PM »
dude... A-10 were bought and paid for decades ago when they were even cheaper.  it costs less to fly then a VIP Lear Jet per hour.  the next cheapest thing is a Cessna.  your talking about buying more MLRS and all the men, training, parts and bs that go with that.  A-10s are cheap to fly, armored like a tank, strike fear into the enemy and make problems go BOOM because they can sling a weapons by the literal fucktons.

True. However the current airframes need replacement so the purchase cost is relevant. To continue with this system you will have to buy it all again.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Goodbye to the Warthog?
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2013, 07:26:30 PM »
no we dont.  the whole fleet has been getting new wings since 2007 as well as avionic upgrades.
why ya so harsh of the Hog baby? I aint been hearin no complaints about them in theater workin their magic.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.