Dominions 4 video...huh??

[son_of_montfort]

FYI, as Faux pointed out, take James Allen's preview with a grain of salt. He is just a player and not involved in the development. He tends to do his reviews and previews "off the cuff" and has been criticized before for inaccuracies when reviewing wargames (long and sordid story). For info on the UI changes you would be better off looking at these sites:

http://thurot.com/2013/07/13/dominions-4/

http://www.matchstickeyes.com/2013/07/15/whats-new-in-dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension/

I love the sprite art as well, and I'm actually glad the graphics have not been updated. TBH, I think the retro style makes me much more "at home" than some of these games that "put 3D in just to put 3D in." Yes, I'm looking at you, recent Heroes of Might and Magic games.

[mikeck]

So long as they are functional. On several occasions I couldn't tell what the hell I was looking at until I right-clicked. "Oh...that was a shield and sword! "
Looking at the video it does seem that they have "cleaned them up" a bit at least.
I asked before What have you heard anything about AI upgrades

[SgtRock]

There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?

[Huw the Poo]

[Yskonyn]

There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?

**DISCLAIMER** This post is NOT intended as offensive or personal in any sense. I just don't get it and am seeking for a mature discussion. No namecalling, no hard feelings.

Its not a matter of caring. I am sure they care a lot about their (pretty much now) lifelong project. They lack the means (financially or otherwise) to make it into the next incarnation you would want.
What is up with all this emoting in this thread by some of you? That's what I meant with the pouting earlier.
Perhaps I am reading into things I should not, but phrases like:

"do the developers even care?"

"I mean seriously, you can't upgrade the graphics? Map looks a bit sharper but take a look at the tactical battle; I don't see a damned difference.
I know the graphics arent what makes the game great, but c'mon man"

"Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point."

"They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics."

These sound either like emo stuff to me (disgruntled kiddy stuff), or assumptions which don't have to be valid by any stretch.
Why should a graphics upgrade (cause we're getting an update) be a gauge for how much they care about their game?
Why should graphics be the only reason to release a sequel?
Why do you think they even want to get any bigger?

From all I've read about the devs, they are just two guys having fun coding a game they wanted to code. That it also became very popular in certain groups was just a bonus.
We're not entitled to anything. They just make their new game and you play it if you like it, or don't if you do not.

Perhaps its the language barrier and I just read into things differently cause I am not english. In any case I just wanted to clarify my reasoning earlier and perhaps I will become all the more wiser in the end.
Not trying to be a douchebag.

[CptHowdy]

so is this a glorified XPAC? is this stuff they wish they had put in Dom3 but didnt have time or the know how several years ago? modders have made upgraded graphic packs, can the developers not buy those and make em official? im sure some graphic artists would update their graphics for a small fee and a mention in the credits if asked. i keep seeing statements about how these guys have little to no money, where is this info coming from? i would bet they have made more money in the last 6 months with the game being heavily discounted than they did in the previous 5-6 years combined. choices are great and this game has so many combinations of factions, units, spells and items that you could never try them all so maybe the developers could poll the community and get rid of stuff that isnt used. i mean do we really need a bunch of spells that target one unit for 1-2 damage?? seems they have a lot of options that could decrease their workload without giving up control of their "baby"

[Yskonyn]

modders have made upgraded graphic packs, can the developers not buy those and make em official? im sure some graphic artists would update their graphics for a small fee and a mention in the credits if asked.

These updates are all sprite based e.g. new armies or updated sprites for existing ones.
Exactly the sort of updates we now get in Dom 4.
The discussion rather was about a complete overhaul of the graphics to make them more detailed, higher res, even 3D, you name it.

[son_of_montfort]

I asked before What have you heard anything about AI upgrades

Mike,

I think I read that the AI no longer takes all sorts of trash scales when creating its Pretender and actually has a bit better at planning. As far as tactical ability, I haven't heard of significant changes in the overall AI other than some processing upgrades. I don't think it will be a huge jump forward, but perhaps a nice subtle improvement. I wouldn't say I was really great at beating the Dom3 or CoE AI...

One thing that might help is that the AI can be told to target the Thrones of Ascension victory locations, rather than tell it to do the Herculean task of conquering the entire map.

[mikeck]

There's a big difference between "retro style graphics" and I can't tell what the hell I'm looking at! Keeping the same graphics for three games now, is not the way to increase sales, do the developers even care?

**DISCLAIMER** This post is NOT intended as offensive or personal in any sense. I just don't get it and am seeking for a mature discussion. No namecalling, no hard feelings.

Its not a matter of caring. I am sure they care a lot about their (pretty much now) lifelong project. They lack the means (financially or otherwise) to make it into the next incarnation you would want.
What is up with all this emoting in this thread by some of you? That's what I meant with the pouting earlier.
Perhaps I am reading into things I should not, but phrases like:

"do the developers even care?"

"I mean seriously, you can't upgrade the graphics? Map looks a bit sharper but take a look at the tactical battle; I don't see a damned difference.
I know the graphics arent what makes the game great, but c'mon man"

"Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point."

"They'll never get any bigger doing the same thing with the same graphics."

These sound either like emo stuff to me (disgruntled kiddy stuff), or assumptions which don't have to be valid by any stretch.
Why should a graphics upgrade (cause we're getting an update) be a gauge for how much they care about their game?
Why should graphics be the only reason to release a sequel?
Why do you think they even want to get any bigger?

From all I've read about the devs, they are just two guys having fun coding a game they wanted to code. That it also became very popular in certain groups was just a bonus.
We're not entitled to anything. They just make their new game and you play it if you like it, or don't if you do not.

Perhaps its the language barrier and I just read into things differently cause I am not english. In any case I just wanted to clarify my reasoning earlier and perhaps I will become all the more wiser in the end.
Not trying to be a douchebag.

No douche-baggery so no worries

I agree with you to the extent that you cannot say they don't love the game b/c they won't upgrade the graphics. But I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be disappointed that there wasnt a graphical upgrade. I'm not suggesting that they owe anyone anything....just that im a bit confused. The fact that it is two guys shouldn't prohibit a graphics upgrade and the Dom 3 graphics were not even fully functional (I should be able to tell what the unit is without clicking on it)

Now, that said, it's their game and if they want old 1996 pixel guys then ok.

[LongBlade]

Sorry, I disagree. It's not a graphics game and I get that. But I don't care how many guys are designing it, it's 2013 and I should be able to expect post 1999 graphics. I live the game, will buy it and appreciate the new features, but I don't see what's wrong with expecting a graphical upgrade for a game that already had extremely dated graphics.

I look at my pixel army and can't tell if someone is holding a sword and shield or a crossbow for Pete's sake

+1

I am sure that Dom3 would be a great game for me, but I cannot get past the horrid graphics. I don't need AAA title graphics, but if all the devs did was update the graphics and re-release the Dom 3 game, they'd be doing themselves a huge favor.

[Arctic Blast]

There are too many other tiny indie crews delivering solid visuals for this 'we're indie' excuse to really be valid anymore. At any rate, if they aren't delivering a bit of a graphics upgrade, they had better be delivering some very nice improvements elsewhere.

I also find it odd that they insisted when CoE 3 came out that there was no Dominions sequel in the works. Didn't that just come out a year ago?

[TheCommandTent]

If they don't upgrade the graphics I hope they at least make the game accessible enough that some enterprising modder can improve them for us.

[Maerlande]

It's pretty reasonable to do some speculation on why this Dominions 4 is a fairly small upgrade in the series.

The history of the publishing is a huge factor.  Illwinter was under some punitive contract with Shrapnel games and for 6 years has refused to even speculate about Dominions 4.  Instead the put out CoE 3 with some new stuff and ideas and get it on steam..  Then quite fast, they finish the contract with Shrapnel, set up an all new home on Desura, start selling well, try to get Dom3 on Steam, set up a beta team, and make Dominions 4 in a tremendous rush.  From what the Beta folks can tell us Dominions 4 development started up 4-5 months ago.  That's a very short time frame and they have set release for August.

If I was Illwinter, I can see this making great sense.  Take advantage of the new excitement for Dominions and push out a decent but not massive sequel.  Talk to the fans a lot.  Be sure to include enough new features to excite the fans.  But don't overcommit.  Get it out, make some money, and then maybe we will see a bigger team.  KO is very active on Desura and Dom3mods about the development.  And his uber fanbois on the beta are pumping out tidbits everywhere :)

JK does all code.  KO does the art.  And KO is flat out doing new sprites.  Which IS a graphical upgrade.  They aren't doing a major engine upgrade and I can understand why given the time frame they have set.  Of course, they could have slowed down release, done a bigger engine upgrade.  I'm quite pleased with their decision.  It's good for the community to get much of the UI problems resolved.  And modding has been greatly improved. 

There are many more things I wished for, but I'm happy with what we are getting.  That video is terrible.  Try the two text previews.  http://thurot.com/2013/07/13/dominions-4/
http://www.matchstickeyes.com/2013/07/15/whats-new-in-dominions-4-thrones-of-ascension/

Oh I see someone posted these already.

[Boggit]

Yeah. If not upgrading the graphics, what's the point. Is a pretty damn good game otherwise.

+1

[Nefaro]

I'm guessing that if a Dominions 5 ever shows up with a new and somewhat fancy gfx engine, it'll probably be a very long time until it happens.

So it's nice to have this improved version coming, to tide us over.  :D