Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

[JasonPratt]

Malize, those are all fine, though keep in mind that once the Field Consul (Julius iirc) leaves for battle, he won't be available to add his votes to the Senate. So timing could be an issue there.

So the fc is dispatched as soon as there's enough votes in favor to send him?  Just for clarification

Yes, he departs immediately.

This rule also affects sending out the Roman Consul with a Force. If the RomCons is still acting as Presiding Magistrate when that happens, then the Senate immediately closes for the Turn! -- due to the rule that if the PM leaves without ensuring the continuance of PM functionality, then the Senate must close. (This affects PMs being sent to Govern a Province, too: a whole other large functionality that has technically opened up in this Era, but which hasn't become a factor yet.)

The way around that, is for the current PM to step down as PM allowing the post to devolve onto the next available senator. But then of course that senator becomes the one who can offer unlimited Proposals without needing an expendable Tribune card, so for the plan to continue after the current PM leaves it's important that the new PM be willing to support the former PM being dispatched on whatever. (Or a coterie needs to be prepared with Tribunes in favor of the plan.)

[malize]

Ok cool thx.  I'm holding my ayes until the end for that technical reason, but you can tack them as the final vote to speed processing

Also wanted to add as a general note that I selected the progressives because the pont max position should be safe there for some turns, the progs not being so powerful that them holding the position adds overly much to their perceived threat, plus the powers of pm may sit better in the weaker/est factions hands as a balance vs the three greater factions

I believe this is a good recipe for senate stability going forward

[JasonPratt]

Ok cool thx.  I'm holding my ayes until the end for that technical reason, but you can tack them as the final vote to speed processing.

In the current proposal order, that won't matter: Field Consul Julius (I think I recall him being the FC) will be Deployed under the second Proposal, and any Proposal after that won't have his votes pro or con.

If you want the FC's votes to help the rest of your Proposal list, then shift his Deployment down to the final Proposal, and add that you'll declare the senate closed once he leaves.


Having said that, I'll allow Tribune play to interrupt the Proposal list, whether with vetos or with other Proposals.

[Erax]

Yea to all proposals.

[Tripoli]

For simplicities sake I'll lay out the issues for the senate to vote on by bullet point and factions can vote in any order on each item (these are all yea/nay)

1) raise all available legions

2) place all legions under field consul vs 1st samnite war (iirc)

3) remove acilius as pontmax

4) appoint calpurnicus of the progressives as new pont max

Jason step in if I've messed something up

The militarists are voting all yes on proposal's #1 and 2.  However, since Julius is now off prosecuting the Saminite war, are we voting on #3 and 4, or do we have to call a roll for it? 

[malize]

For simplicities sake I'll lay out the issues for the senate to vote on by bullet point and factions can vote in any order on each item (these are all yea/nay)

1) raise all available legions

2) place all legions under field consul vs 1st samnite war (iirc)

3) remove acilius as pontmax

4) appoint calpurnicus of the progressives as new pont max

Jason step in if I've messed something up

The militarists are voting all yes on proposal's #1 and 2.  However, since Julius is now off prosecuting the Saminite war, are we voting on #3 and 4, or do we have to call a roll for it?

By what he said if it's (your senator leaving Rome) not majoritied before you vote then his votes would go towards the totals until his departure is mandated... unless I'm wrong

[JasonPratt]

Julius' votes count until he leaves Rome. After he goes to War, he (and his knights) can't vote in the Senate on further topics until he returns.

Okay, let me catch up!

Proposal #1: Spend 3x10 Talents to raise the next three available Legions from the Force Pool.

Enough Factions have voted yes for this to pass, so I'm going to process it.

Republic cash down 30 from 196 to 166. 11th, 12th, and 13th Legions are mustered to the Active Pool.

[JasonPratt]

Proposal #2: Deploy Field Consul Julius along with all 13 Legions to fight the 1st Samnite War.

Enough Factions have voted yes for this to pass, and Malize hasn't yet shifted this Proposal to a later stage in his list (after some opportunities), so I'm going to process it.



I thought it would be appropriate for the poor little Samnites to look like Bambi about to be flattened by Godzilla...  >:D

Julius leaves Rome with all 13 Legions to attack the 1st Samnite War. Militarist voting reduces by 3 Ora and 4 knights to 9.

[JasonPratt]

Proposal #3: Remove the PontMax Office from Acilius.

This needs a vote majority greater than 66 percent. I tried my best to explain that under the current proposal order, Julius will depart from Rome taking his votes with him, and thus won't be available for voting on subsequent proposals, specifically the Acilius removal.

I want to be fair about this, because everyone still learning the game on one hand, but on the other hand a character's office (though at least not his life) is at stake.  :-\

Sending Julian out before the PontMax Removal vote, is going to reduce the resulting votes 'for' down by 7 points, to 48. AzTank has indicated in a public chat (not in this forum) that he'll be voting AGAINST removing Acilius, so every other player (aside from Az and the Frog) had to agree with all their senators to edge out over the 66% limit. With Julius gone, there's still a solid majority -- but it's only 48 out of 82 total votes, or 58.5%.

And that isn't enough, for the unique >66% rule on this voting topic, to remove Acilius.

I'll pause here to allow Malize to make an appeal that he didn't understand what I was trying to tell him about sending Julius to War removing his voting ability from the Senate on subsequent Proposals. I wasn't trying to be obtuse, exactly, but I didn't think it would be fair for me to explicitly spell out that keeping Julius' Deployment in the current Proposal order will cause the Removal Proposal to fail.  :-\

[malize]

everyone voted on the items as given in a certain order, it'd be wrong for me to alter the order after the fact

We can chock this one up as a learning moment and I'll accept the results they stand

[JasonPratt]

I'll still hold off a little while for the conclusion of some p-mail discussions which might or might not make a difference.

[JasonPratt]

Consensus seems to be that the current coterie will stand pat with a couple of warning shots across the Plutocrats' bow.

And the Frog sends in from chat that Acilius will grant Furius of the Conservatives a minor priesthood, before the Senate Phase ends.

With that, I think we're done for this Phase? I'll process after work this afternoon.  O:-)

[JasonPratt]

The Frog rewards AzTank's public willingness to help him, by having Acilius grant a minor priesthood to Faction Leader Furius. Influence goes up 1 point to 9; total goes up to 15.

With nothing else useful to do, this ends the Senate Phase.

[JasonPratt]

TURN EIGHT -- COMBAT PHASE
-----------------------------------

Julius of the Militarists vs the 1st Samnite War!



Number of Legions: 13
Julius Mil skill: +8 (all used)
War's land strength: -2

With a +19 Dice Roll Modifier, no other result than a Disaster, Standoff, or Victory with no casualties is possible. And the D/S chances are absolutely minimum at 3 and 18 respectively.

The dice roll functionality has still not been added back to the Groghead forum, so you'll just have to trust me as I roll the TTS dice...

2+2+6 avoids either D/S result, and would normally be a Stalemate with 3 unit casualties; but +19 that's a win with no casualties.
Unrest -1 down to 3. Republic's income permanently increases by 10 to 60 Talents per turn. The 14th and 15th Legions are added to the logistic Force Pool. No Enemy Leader, so the Spolia Opima Event remains active. The War is discarded.

Julius increases his Popularity and Influence each by half the War's nominal land strength of 2, so by 1 point up to 2 and 10 respectively. With no casualties, there is no Popularity lost, nor any mortality chits drawn. Julius marches home to Rome -- bringing all 13 Active Legions with him!

Now that the Early Provincial Era has arrived, surviving Legions will start to level up to Veteran capability! Since this is not a Civil War, and not a Defeat, the oldest non-Vet Legion, the 1st Legion, becomes a Veteran. Julius receives their Loyalty marker.

This ends the Combat Phase.

[JasonPratt]

TURN EIGHT -- REVOLUTION PHASE
------------------------------

So. Here we go. The main game has now started with the Early Provincial Era, and that means one Player can henceforth try to win the game all by himself by making one of his senators Emperor. The legal ways have been briefly discussed already: election or automatic appointment of a sufficiently Influential senator to the office of Consul for Life.

The other way is by revolting against the Senate and successfully prosecuting a Civil War.

This is the Phase where Players may make a Declaration of Civil War. That's why it was always called the Revolution Phase!

Only two kinds of senators may open a Rebellion: Governors of Provinces (which don't exist yet but which functionality has now unlocked), and Commanders returning from a Victory.

Currently, there's only one valid potential Rebel: Julius of the Militarists. Insert historical irony here... ;)

Previously, all the Legions simply returned to the Active Pool after a Victory. Now, though, they're coming back with their Victorious Commander! So Julius will either hand over the Legions back to Rome, or Rebel with them.

Tripoli may choose for Julius to Rebel or not, during or after the normal cardplay of Concessions and Statesmen. But he must tell me one way or the other before I can finish this Phase and start the next Turn.

Only senators from Tripoli's Militarist Faction may join his Rebellion, but they aren't obligated to. If his Rebellion fails, they'll die along with Julius, so having a reserve of senators is usually a good idea -- especially if they have nothing to contribute to the success of the Rebellion! Interactions between Tripoli's loyal and rebel senators will be minimized by the rules, however. Secondary rebels in the Faction cannot ever take over as the Prime Rebel.

Any rebelling senator must check how many Legions (and Fleets once you start getting those) will follow him. And each rebelling senator can (and should!) check allegiances before declaring rebellion. Once a Player declares Rebellion, it cannot be undone, even if allegiance hasn't yet been checked for some or any units.

Checking allegiance is not yet a declaration of rebellion, nor does it shift units around yet, but it must be done publicly (and so it necessarily signals to all other Players that the checking Player is thinking of Rebellion!!)

Using Tripoli as a handy example: all non-disbanded Veteran Legions whose chits the senator owns, will automatically join his Rebellion, including from the Active Pool or from other Commands (whether in the field or themselves returning Victoriously!) So he would definitely get the allegiance of the 1st Legion. If Tripoli had any Governing senators, all their Provincial army and/or navy forces (above the Base Strengths of the Province), plus all Garrison Legions, will also automatically join them in Rebellion. That includes any Veteran Garrison Legions, but the Loyalty owners of any Veterans can call them to switch sides at any time, including in the middle of a fight!

Non-veteran Legions coming back from War will then roll for loyalty to the Victorious Commander -- Julius in this example. For each unit being rolled, Julius can sacrifice 1 Talent from his personal cash (and/or from his Master of Horse if he has one), to improve his roll by 1 point. The decision on how much cash to spend must be made before the first die roll check! (For example Julius would have to dice in any case for the loyalty of all 12 other Legions he's bringing back, but he'd have to decide how many of the 2 Talents currently in his Treasury he'd spend on bribes. Each Talenton would buff the roll of one Legion.)

The unit rebels with the senator if the (possibly adjusted) roll >=5. This becomes easier in the succeeding Eras (by one point each Era)!

Should Tripoli choose to remain loyal, his Victorious senators (Julius in this case) give back all Forces to the Active Pool, including all Veteran Legions. He still retains the loyalty chits of any Legions who have become Veterans under his Command, but the Vets can now be assigned to other Commanders (including as Garrisons to Governors) for typical Force Deployments.