Long ago I asked a professor who had studied arabic and yemen what was going on in Yemen. She said, "I don't known." I still find the Houthi agenda a bit obscure. They were busy attacking Saudi Arabia until recently and now I guess they are shooting their stuff from Iran at random ships in the Red Sea and we just hit some of their
assets that support shooting at ships in the Red Sea. Is that pretty much the whole story? I know by Law of the Sea, you can always shoot back at pirates and such...so is this more anti privateering?
Around October 14, 2023 Yemen, under direction and control of the Houthi rebels, declared war on Israel. They declared war in "support" of the pals in Gaza who on October 7, 2023 launched a surprise attack on Israeli border settlements murdering 1400 people and kidnapping roughly 300.
At first the Houthis limited their actions to launching drones and missiles at Eilat, Israel. Later towards the end of last year they began attacking ships in the Red Sea that the Houthis suspected to be travelling to Israel.
Soon after they just started attacking any commercial vessel in the Red Sea regardless of where they were heading. I read that something like 30-40% of the worlds commerce traverses the Red Sea. I'm actually quite surprised that the price of goods and gasoline (petrol) has not started to skyrocket. Nevertheless my suspicion (just my opinion) is that the Houthis, who by the way are funded and backed by the Islamic State of Iran, are using the Gazan war as an excuse to disrupt the world economy.
Last night the US and UK attacked many targets in Yemen including but not limited to; missile & drone launch sites, munitions storehouses, radar and anti aircraft defenses. This was done after the U.N. on January 10, 2024 called upon Yemen to stop it's attack on commercial shipping in the Red Sea. Yemen refused so here we are.
Iran is behind the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestine Authority, and the Houthis who are nothing but proxies of Iran.
Quote from: W8taminute on January 12, 2024, 11:10:47 AMSoon after they just started attacking any commercial vessel in the Red Sea regardless of where they were heading. I read that something like 30-40% of the worlds commerce traverses the Red Sea. I'm actually quite surprised that the price of goods and gasoline (petrol) has not started to skyrocket. Nevertheless my suspicion (just my opinion) is that the Houthis, who by the way are funded and backed by the Islamic State of Iran, are using the Gazan war as an excuse to disrupt the world economy.
Last night the US and UK attacked many targets in Yemen including but not limited to; missile & drone launch sites, munitions storehouses, radar and anti aircraft defenses. This was done after the U.N. on January 10, 2024 called upon Yemen to stop it's attack on commercial shipping in the Red Sea. Yemen refused so here we are.
Iran is behind the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestine Authority, and the Houthis who are nothing but proxies of Iran.
But what do the Houthi hope to get out of this? I seem to recall even their favorite enemy, Saudi Arabia, asked the US not to attack the Houthi (I think the Houthi and SA have a ceasefire or something).
Moreover, the Red Sea is a major supply route for the Houthi (or is it if SA is letting things into Yemen by other routes?)
And another thing, if shore-based weapons are used to support piracy, then anyone in the area may be obligated to shoot at the shore-based weapons.
Of course, the Houthi can argue that they have declared war on Israel, so they are just privateering -- though I'm not sure that is even a legal term anymore.
Quote from: W8taminute on January 12, 2024, 11:10:47 AMIran is behind the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestine Authority, and the Houthis who are nothing but proxies of Iran.
and the Iraqi and Syrian militias that are harassing US forces. Jeremy Bowen of the BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67955729) says not to call the Houthis proxies but allies of Iran but I think that's splitting hairs. Especially with an Iranian ship in the Red Sea providing intelligence to the Houthis https://news.yahoo.com/iranian-spy-vessel-directs-houthi-225731425.html
Tomorrow we will see the results of Taiwan's election. As the DPP, who champion independence for Taiwan, are leading in the polls, we shall soon after see Xi Jinping and the CCP's reaction. I think Iran's axis of resistance will expand from Iran, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela and some non-state actors to include China at the very least taking advantage of multiple, world-wide crisis and the West's ability to respond, with unfortunately, the greatest burdens falling on the US.
In some good news that may have been buried, Saudi Arabia has surprisingly announced that they still want to pursue a peace deal with Israel.
Quote from: MengJiao on January 12, 2024, 01:15:35 PMBut what do the Houthi hope to get out of this?
They themselves do not gain anything directly out of this other than furthering the cause of their sponsor(s) which is to...
Quote from: W8taminute on January 12, 2024, 11:10:47 AMusing the Gazan war as an excuse to disrupt the world economy
or at least the Western Economies.
Quote from: Uberhaus on January 12, 2024, 01:29:43 PM... taking advantage of multiple, world-wide crisis and the West's ability to respond, with unfortunately, the greatest burdens falling on the US.
This is what is worrying me for 2024.
Quote from: Gusington on January 12, 2024, 01:49:39 PMIn some good news that may have been buried, Saudi Arabia has surprisingly announced that they still want to pursue a peace deal with Israel.
That is good news indeed and actually I'm excited to hear about that. At least there is some hope for sense and reasonableness in the middle east.
Not a big fan of MBS but Saudi Arabia is opposed to Iran's ambitions and is trying to check the growth of Iranian support in the Middle East, especially at its own back door of Yemen.
:ROFL:
QuoteJan 12 (Reuters) - Houthi militants mistakenly targeted a tanker carrying Russian oil in a missile attack on Friday off Yemen, British maritime security firm Ambrey said.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 13, 2024, 08:50:04 AM:ROFL:
QuoteJan 12 (Reuters) - Houthi militants mistakenly targeted a tanker carrying Russian oil in a missile attack on Friday off Yemen, British maritime security firm Ambrey said.
You know, it seems kind of odd that if Russia and Iran are busy working to have stuff shot at things all over the place in order to have external enemies to keep their more-or-less internally suppressed populations mesmerized, it seems that all they have done is to perpetuate internal and external pressures so that both areas (external and internal) require more and more effort. It seems like an unproductive cycle for everybody. Even the Houthi.
yes and a main contributor is that russians are fucking dumb.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 21, 2024, 08:53:42 AMyes and a main contributor is that russians are fucking dumb.
Even total stupidity could learn to stop doing this weird cycle. There must be some reflexive
mental twitch in there that is far beyond the normal range of ordinary dumbness. The Houthi I can sort of
understand: shoot stuff get some credibility and more weapons and continue the cycle.
Russia and Iran seem to have gone of the deep end of something else.
I would say nuke them from orbit but I kinda live here.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GEfJjT9XAAATaP_?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: MengJiao on January 21, 2024, 11:06:27 AMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on January 21, 2024, 08:53:42 AMyes and a main contributor is that russians are fucking dumb.
Even total stupidity could learn to stop doing this weird cycle. There must be some reflexive
mental twitch in there that is far beyond the normal range of ordinary dumbness. The Houthi I can sort of
understand: shoot stuff get some credibility and more weapons and continue the cycle.
Russia and Iran seem to have gone of the deep end of something else.
I think it's actually pretty simple. It goes something like this. "To show fear is to show weakness. I must never show weakness. What is the most fearless thing I can do to my rivals?"
It is, IMHO, the same response that the anti-maskers had to COVID in the first year after vaccines became available. Viruses, of course, don't see fear as a sign of weakness, so it made even less sense in that case, but perhaps that is a direction I shouldn't go in this conversation?
^Agreed on that last point.
I'm rather pleased with strikes the US has taken over the last few days.
80+ targets hit within 30 minutes is groovy. :cool:
90's soft rock humor...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFq9-ohWsAAwgOR?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 05, 2024, 12:07:28 AMI'm rather pleased with strikes the US has taken over the last few days.
80+ targets hit within 30 minutes is groovy. :cool:
The Houthis just can't get a break. After(what?) 20 years of doing whatever it is that they do (big green signs that say essentially "no quarter" etc. etc.) they finally stumble into an actual confrontation with real firepower and it looks like all they have left to play is the "humanitarian" card where they say that 17 actual Houthis have actually been killed. Are they running out of missiles like everybody else on the planet? Has Iran suggested they kind of cut down on the random missile firing thing?
At least I can understand their problem sort of: they want to be big big big but they are running out of missiles like everybody else on the planet.
fuck around and find out
:intrepidphasers:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 11, 2024, 12:13:13 PMfuck around and find out
:intrepidphasers:
And yesterday they seem to have hit a shipload of grain going to Iran, which seems inept. Fortunately for
all involved, the two missile hits on the grain ship didn't do much damage. Maybe it was a subtle message to
somebody? Like give us better missiles so we can really sink some serious food heading for our missile supplier?
Not the kind of subtle message anyone likes to have to add to the list of inept things to do, maybe?
for Valentines Day
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGUK5cAXoAATq5X?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 14, 2024, 05:31:03 PMfor Valentines Day
Apparently, the Houthis have now shot down a total of 3 US drones.
thats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
they get to be martyrs :uglystupid2:
Quote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1760069724694569230
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Hessen_%28F221%29_refueling_from_CVN-69_Nov_2009.jpg)
now on the "Kriegsmarsch" into the Red Sea :knuppel2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_frigate_Hessen
Quote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
Why would the Houthis care about inflation?
Quote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
a pretext indeed... shipping cost went bat-shit crazy during covid and they have only come down a bit since... any pretext is a good pretext if it can be used to increase profits
Quote from: MengJiao on February 21, 2024, 06:43:30 AMQuote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
Why would the Houthis care about inflation?
They don't but other players do. Like Windy mentioned in his post, if the powers that be in the market can find a reason to bump up prices they will.
The cost of shipping petroleum and other goods around the Cape of Good Hope rather than through the Suez Canal will contribute to their costs. The Houthis are letting Chinese and Russian ships through. The Houthis claim that they are threatening shipping over Israel's war against Hamas and hope their actions will lessen support in the West for Israel.
Quote from: Uberhaus on February 21, 2024, 12:17:57 PMThe cost of shipping petroleum and other goods around the Cape of Good Hope rather than through the Suez Canal will contribute to their costs. The Houthis are letting Chinese and Russian ships through. The Houthis claim that they are threatening shipping over Israel's war against Hamas and hope their actions will lessen support in the West for Israel.
I don't think any major petroleum shipping routes have gone through the Suez Canal in a long time. Plus the Houthis have only been hitting rather small bulk carriers. This might raise maritime insurance rates, but I don't see how it can directly impact oil prices.
PS...Oh...actually it appears the negative impact on Chinese exports to Europe (not oil) is pretty high
because:
a) Chinese exports to Europe do use the Suez Canal
b) and usually not on Chinese ships
And: https://www.voanews.com/a/chinese-navy-escorting-commercial-cargos-in-red-sea/7469317.html
Or
China's navy has started escorting Chinese cargo ships through the Red Sea, according to a shipping company and Chinese state media reports. This comes as many cargo shipping companies have decided to avoid the globally important trade passage because of attacks from Houthi rebels.
Since November, Iran-backed Houthis have launched scores of drone and missile attacks on ships passing through the Red Sea, acts that they say are in support of Palestinian militant group Hamas in the war with Israel.
A U.S.-led coalition has responded to the attacks with missile strikes on Houthi positions, backed by a collective force from Bahrain, Britain, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, Norway, the Seychelles, and Spain. But they have so far not stopped ships from being targeted.
And while most ship companies have re-routed to go around Africa, doubling costs and shipping times, Sea Legend Shipping, a Qingdao-based company registered in Singapore, is actively promoting its cargo business through the Red Sea.
The company says that since January, the Chinese navy has provided security escorts for its five cargo ships in the Red Sea, making it one of the few still operating in the region, according to Chinese media.
In an emailed response to a request for confirmation and comment on the scope of protection being provided, Yuan Mu, a spokesperson for China's Embassy in Washington, referred VOA to departments directly responsible.
"On the whole, China stands ready to work with all parties to safeguard the safety of international shipping lanes," the spokesperson said in the emailed response.
Vessels with Russian fuel reportedly avoid route
Although the Houthis have said that ships from some countries, including China and Russia, can safely pass through the Red Sea, a British oil tanker carrying Russian oil was hit by a Houthi missile and caught fire last week.
Shipping news site oilprice.com reports that even tankers carrying Russian fuel are now avoiding the Red Sea.
About 40% of trade between Europe and Asia goes through the Red Sea and Suez Canal, and about 12% of the globe's sea trade in oil.
From the article you quote:
QuoteAnd while most ship companies have re-routed to go around Africa, doubling costs and shipping times, Sea Legend Shipping, a Qingdao-based company registered in Singapore, is actively promoting its cargo business through the Red Sea.
The company says that since January, the Chinese navy has provided security escorts for its five cargo ships in the Red Sea, making it one of the few still operating in the region, according to Chinese media.
That would be quite the competitive advantage for time and fuel savings. As to the Suez not being a major petroleum shipping route, I'd say that "12% of the globe's sea trade in oil" is major.
Also from VOA on Jan 19.:https://www.voanews.com/a/houthis-won-t-target-chinese-russian-ships-in-red-sea/7446893.html
QuoteA senior official of the Iranian-backed Houthi terrorist group says Chinese and Russian vessels will have safe passage through the Red Sea.
Mohammed al-Bukhaiti, a member of the Houthi political leadership, said in an interview with the Russian outlet Izvestia that the shipping lanes around Yemen are safe to ships from China and Russia as long as vessels are not connected with Israel, Agence France-Presse reported Friday, citing Izvestia.
From Reuters, Feb. 1: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russian-oil-flows-through-red-sea-still-face-lower-risks-2024-02-01/
QuoteTankers carrying Russian oil have continued sailing through the Red Sea largely uninterrupted by Houthi attacks on shipping and face lower risks than competitors, according to shipping executives, analysts and flows data.
Russia has become more dependent on trade through the Suez Canal and the Red Sea since it invaded Ukraine, which led to Europe imposing sanctions on Russian imports and forced Moscow to export most of its crude to China and India. Before the war, Russia exported more to Europe.
The number of Russian ships passing through the Red Sea has registered a slight decline since December, according to oil analytics firm Vortexa, but traffic last week was still around 20% higher than on average in 2023.
Even after the Houthi's hit a Russian oil carrier, "Four tankers carrying Russian Urals crude passed through the Bab-el-Mandab strait with another three heading south through the Red Sea since the attack on the Trafigura vessel on Jan. 26, Kpler data show."
CNN breaksdown the increase in costs: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/08/business/red-sea-crisis-global-trade-explained/index.html
Quote$1 million more per ship
Adding another few thousand miles to shipping routes has increased fuel and insurance costs, as well as charter fees and wage bills.
Sand at Xeneta estimates that it costs carriers — companies like Maersk and Hapag-Lloyd — an extra $1 million per vessel to make a round trip around the southern tip of Africa, with the vast majority of that figure accounted for by higher fuel costs.
Quote from: W8taminute on February 21, 2024, 11:26:55 AMQuote from: MengJiao on February 21, 2024, 06:43:30 AMQuote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
Why would the Houthis care about inflation?
They don't but other players do. Like Windy mentioned in his post, if the powers that be in the market can find a reason to bump up prices they will.
current high prices on goods are more about record corporate profits then supply chains.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 21, 2024, 06:17:10 PMQuote from: W8taminute on February 21, 2024, 11:26:55 AMQuote from: MengJiao on February 21, 2024, 06:43:30 AMQuote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
Why would the Houthis care about inflation?
They don't but other players do. Like Windy mentioned in his post, if the powers that be in the market can find a reason to bump up prices they will.
current high prices on goods are more about record corporate profits then supply chains.
But its the pretext... nudge nudge, wink wink.
Quote from: Windigo on February 21, 2024, 10:45:28 PMBut its the pretext... nudge nudge, wink wink.
Well okay. But let's look at the actual events:
1) almost no hits by Houthi munitions that have actually caused any significant damage
2) some amount of definite hits on the Houthi according to the Houthi
3) a steady build up of assets that can hit the Houthi or neutralize their munitions
4) very good information control from the defenders of the Red Sea routes (we really know
very little about what is actually being used to observe and neutralize the Houthi
5) Even the Chinese would like the Houthi to stop shooting at ships
So...this is like...what? A public-relations version of terrorism? Though in fact historically
hitting transport is the best move if you have limited firepower and need publicity for your
movement and its aims (though in the Houthi case, other than showing the Houthi exist, it is very
hard to see what their actual aims might be)
We shall see if the Houthis have sunk their first ship. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68363692
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/cpsprodpb/10B08/production/_132706386_photo-2024-02-21-16-51-03.jpg.webp)
From the article:
QuoteOn Monday, Houthi fighters claimed to have sunk the Rubymar. It would have been the most significant incident since attacks on ships began in November.
But the BBC has obtained an image of the ship from Wednesday - which shows it still above water.
The vessel's operator said it was being towed to Djibouti but could still sink.
...
The Houthis say their attacks are a show of support for the Palestinians in the war between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
The attacks have prompted many shipping companies to stop using the critical waterway, which accounts for about 12% of global seaborne trade.
Even with a "minimum threat", it's up to the shipping companies to be willing to sail the waters and find willing crews. As to the Houthis' motivations, they say what they say; but with most of their weapons being supplied by Iran, the Axis of Resistance wants to inflict economic harm on the West. Even better if these are perceived as tiny cuts and that the blame lies elsewhere.
Corporations are going to corporate, but the attempt at blockade will contribute to economic delays and pain, most especially in less affluent households which are already struggling with the costs of goods.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 21, 2024, 06:17:10 PMQuote from: W8taminute on February 21, 2024, 11:26:55 AMQuote from: MengJiao on February 21, 2024, 06:43:30 AMQuote from: W8taminute on February 20, 2024, 08:06:41 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 20, 2024, 08:02:46 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on February 20, 2024, 07:06:43 PMthats why they're unmanned.
and after they were shot down what happened to the launch site?
Well...they don't shoot them down very often. One in 2019. One last June and one now.
It's not like it's a new thing. Which sort of brings up the question: what do the Houthis get
out of this kind of loose-loose warfare? It's not even asymmetrical; they can't actually
gain any real benefit that I can see.
Disruption of shipping on a heavily traveled route. Then it can be used as a pretext for even greater inflation than we're seeing now.
Why would the Houthis care about inflation?
They don't but other players do. Like Windy mentioned in his post, if the powers that be in the market can find a reason to bump up prices they will.
current high prices on goods are more about record corporate profits then supply chains.
This is utter nonsense. The cost of goods is being driven up by inflation, which has nothing to do with "record corporate profits" and more to do with instability, insecurity, supply not meeting demand, shortages of raw materials, poor policy and leadership, COVID-19, war in Ukraine, etc. But that is not to suggest that both phenomenons are not happening concurrently. They aren't mutually exclusive, but one has little to nothing to do with the other.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 06:30:08 AM1) almost no hits by Houthi munitions that have actually caused any significant damage
W8taminute - Am I the only one that finds this odd? Are they really that inept or are they being careful not to actually sink a ship?
2) some amount of definite hits on the Houthi according to the Houthi
W8taminute - I am wondering why their offensive capability hasn't been neutralized. Certainly with our high tech military might it should be no problem to wipe out their threat in a matter of days?
3) a steady build up of assets that can hit the Houthi or neutralize their munitions
4) very good information control from the defenders of the Red Sea routes (we really know
very little about what is actually being used to observe and neutralize the Houthi
W8taminute - Agreed!
5) Even the Chinese would like the Houthi to stop shooting at ships
W8taminute - Notice no one dares shoots their ships in the area. And they're (the Chinese) acting like their the worlds gift to diplomacy with their trying to resolve the issue both in Gaza and the Red Sea. I don't like that and yes I'm paranoid when it comes to China.
Quote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 10:06:45 AMW8taminute - Notice no one dares shoots their ships in the area. And they're (the Chinese) acting like their the worlds gift to diplomacy with their trying to resolve the issue both in Gaza and the Red Sea. I don't like that and yes I'm paranoid when it comes to China.
[/quote]
The Chinese don't have many ships in the area and they have good relations with the Israelis and everyone else in the region. Why should anyone want to target the Chinese?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 22, 2024, 07:58:09 AMThis is utter nonsense. The cost of goods is being driven up by inflation, which has nothing to do with "record corporate profits" and more to do with instability, insecurity, supply not meeting demand, shortages of raw materials, poor policy and leadership, COVID-19, war in Ukraine, etc. But that is not to suggest that both phenomenons are not happening concurrently. They aren't mutually exclusive, but one has little to nothing to do with the other.
how far can I run with this?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 22, 2024, 07:58:09 AMThe cost of goods is being driven up by inflation, which has nothing to do with "record corporate profits"
Your thinking is a bit scrambled here JH.
Inflation is not a driver, but a measurement of the rise in cost of goods.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 22, 2024, 07:58:09 AMBut that is not to suggest that both phenomenons are not happening concurrently. They aren't mutually exclusive, but one has little to nothing to do with the other.
Numerous recent studies (didn't pull some bullshit 1980's study out) have shown that current inflation is been driven as you said by multi phenomena, but the single largest driver of inflation is increased profits (https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2022/09/30/what-is-really-driving-inflation-today/?sh=960864b80f91)
When people talk about greedflation I think they assume it represents most if not all of the current inflation rate, but at inflations peak (+9%) increased profits accounted for a little over 40% of the total. (IIRC)
It is the single largest consistent factor.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2024, 11:16:21 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on February 22, 2024, 07:58:09 AMThis is utter nonsense. The cost of goods is being driven up by inflation, which has nothing to do with "record corporate profits" and more to do with instability, insecurity, supply not meeting demand, shortages of raw materials, poor policy and leadership, COVID-19, war in Ukraine, etc. But that is not to suggest that both phenomenons are not happening concurrently. They aren't mutually exclusive, but one has little to nothing to do with the other.
how far can I run with this?
Don't Do It.
Don't Do It.
Don't Do It.
Clearly, opinions on what is the most likely cause of inflation is going to be ideologically driven. For every article one posts suggesting the primary driver is corporate greed, there is one suggesting it is not.
See New Nonsense on Profit-Driven Inflation (https://www.cato.org/commentary/new-nonsense-profit-driven-inflation#)
I accept that reasonable minds can differ and the likely driver is a combination of all factors, of which high profit can be one.
I think we best leave it at that.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 10:13:56 AM...they have good relations with the Israelis and everyone else in the region. Why should anyone want to target the Chinese?
I've seen some reports of China giving stern warnings to Israel. They also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion. China also stated that what happened on October 7 is justified. Madness!
https://thecradle.co/articles/china-backs-palestinians-right-to-armed-struggle-against-israeli-occupation
The Houthis won't target Chinese ships because China supports terrorism.
Quote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 02:16:59 PMThey also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion.
Im sure the chinese will keep this in mind if/when they go for Taiwan.
Quote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 02:16:59 PMQuote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 10:13:56 AM...they have good relations with the Israelis and everyone else in the region. Why should anyone want to target the Chinese?
I've seen some reports of China giving stern warnings to Israel. They also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion. China also stated that what happened on October 7 is justified. Madness!
Quote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 02:16:59 PMThey were getting along. Israel is a major arms-supplier to China for example.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 10:13:56 AM...they have good relations with the Israelis and everyone else in the region. Why should anyone want to target the Chinese?
I've seen some reports of China giving stern warnings to Israel. They also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion. China also stated that what happened on October 7 is justified. Madness!
https://thecradle.co/articles/china-backs-palestinians-right-to-armed-struggle-against-israeli-occupation
The Houthis won't target Chinese ships because China supports terrorism.
https://thecradle.co/articles/china-backs-palestinians-right-to-armed-struggle-against-israeli-occupation
The Houthis won't target Chinese ships because China supports terrorism.
PS...i messed up the quotes somehow. Anyway i was trying to say:
They were getting along. Israel is a major arms-supplier to China for example.
Moreover, I wonder
Do the Houthis define themselves as terrorists? Does China say it supports terrorism?
Are the Houthis and China really so exact about their mutual definition of terror and the
bonds of not shooting at each other this implies?
If so, why are the Chinese sending ships to escort their ships?
Or do the Chinese (like everyone else) suspect the Houthis are pretty much just shooting at
shipping in a fairly generic way?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2024, 02:50:21 PMQuote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 02:16:59 PMThey also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion.
Im sure the chinese will keep this in mind if/when they go for Taiwan.
What's a little hypocrisy?
I dont think hypocrisy ever registers with communists.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2024, 03:51:44 PMI dont think hypocrisy ever registers with communists.
or.... nm
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 22, 2024, 02:50:21 PMQuote from: W8taminute on February 22, 2024, 02:16:59 PMThey also gave a declaration at the international world court supporting Palestinian rights to armed conflict to throw off the yoke of colonialist expansion.
Im sure the chinese will keep this in mind if/when they go for Taiwan.
Exactly.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 02:59:36 PMDo the Houthis define themselves as terrorists?
No I'm sure they don't define themselves as terrorists. More like freedom fighters. In any case they are a proxy of Iran.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 02:59:36 PMDoes China say it supports terrorism?
No and I'm sure most nations would never be so bold as to state support of terrorism. However the speech they gave supporting the rights of people to rise up using any means necessary is pretty close to admitting support for terrorism.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 02:59:36 PMThey were getting along.
Key word "were". :cool:
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 02:59:36 PMIf so, why are the Chinese sending ships to escort their ships?
Great opportunity for China to showcase their pre-eminence on the world stage as a superpower.
Quote from: MengJiao on February 22, 2024, 02:59:36 PMOr do the Chinese (like everyone else) suspect the Houthis are pretty much just shooting at shipping in a fairly generic way?
I don't think the Houthis are shooting at ships in a generic way. They made it clear when they declared war on Israel back in October that any ships suspected of heading towards Israeli ports are fair game. Since the US, Britain, and France are sending military vessels into the area I bet the Chinese want to also point out they're a force to be reckoned with as well and deserve a spot on the international "peace keeping" stage. (Note: my opinion, not based on a news report opinion)
I wonder if the Chinese ships are even able to shoot.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on February 23, 2024, 12:42:56 PMI wonder if the Chinese ships are even able to shoot.
I imagine the Israeli weapons on the Chinese ships work just fine. Israel is a major arms supplier to China.
And PS, old news but somewhat interesting:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/15/red-sea-attack-fueled-ocean-freight-inflation-is-starting-to-reverse.html
It's good to be informed
^
^^
Good dancing there guys. Honorable and respectful. :cool:
Red Sea tensions delaying shipment of Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader Colelctor's Edition boxed sets!
QuoteLord Captains!
Unfortunately, due to increased international tensions in the Red Sea, our delivery of the Collector's Editions for Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader has been delayed by a couple of weeks.
We expect to provide you with the tracking numbers by the beginning of March and with the new expected delivery dates at around the end of the same month.
A few more details about the situation:
Your boxes are currently on their way from China, where they were manufactured, to logistical centers around the world. Distribution will commence from there.
With the Suez Canal, a critical piece of maritime infrastructure, currently being too dangerous to use, ships are forced to go around the whole of Africa, affecting our deliveries as well.
It will not affect the cost of your delivery or require any additional action from your side, but sadly there's nothing we can do to avoid this delay.
We deeply apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your understanding.
Now the Houthi's have done it. Unleash the Kraken!
IYKYK
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHWbqIUWwAErjBG?format=jpg&name=small)
Hooties finally sink a ship.
https://twitter.com/Roman_o_Wojnie/status/1762927352001053159
https://redstate.com/bobhoge/2024/03/02/first-ship-sinks-in-red-sea-as-a-result-of-houthi-strikes-fuel-fertilizer-create-ecological-nightmare-n2170829
two weeks later while in a storm....
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 02, 2024, 12:31:21 PMtwo weeks later while in a storm....
Abandoned for 12 days. I wonder what kind of a munition hit it? I've been running some Houthi attacks in
Command modern war and the most advanced Iranian antiship missiles have warheads of half a ton and a range of
almost 300 km. I would guess the Houthis aren't using those or they would have sunk a lot more ships and
pretty spectacularly.
Ps I mean
Command Modern Operations, a mindless name for a moderately amusing game
well the Navy has been shooting shit down left and right, maybe this is just the one that hit finally.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 02, 2024, 02:58:43 PMwell the Navy has been shooting shit down left and right, maybe this is just the one that hit finally.
Apparently, the US Navy has been hitting Houthi missiles when they switch on their launchers or their own systems start revving up for launch (radars? Radio guidance? Just rolling up to a firing position?). The Houthis don't seem to have hit much lately and even the Italian navy is shooting down Houthi drones.
Quote from: MengJiao on March 02, 2024, 03:32:37 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on March 02, 2024, 02:58:43 PMwell the Navy has been shooting shit down left and right, maybe this is just the one that hit finally.
Apparently, the US Navy has been hitting Houthi missiles when they switch on their launchers or their own systems start revving up for launch (radars? Radio guidance? Just rolling up to a firing position?). The Houthis don't seem to have hit much lately and even the Italian navy is shooting down Houthi drones.
And things go on being odd in Houthiland. They claim US and British navy vessels messed up the cables. Okay, so this claim seems oddly generic -- how would they know it was the US or British vessels that messed up the cables? Rather than any of the other ships and other stuff shooting at things all over the Red Sea?
CAIRO (Reuters) - The Houthi Transport Ministry in Yemen said on Saturday there had been a "glitch" in undersea communication cables in the Red Sea as a result of actions by U.S. and British naval vessels.
The actions "endangered the security and safety of the international communications and the flow of information," the ministry said in a statement, reported by the Houthi-run Saba news agency, without giving details.
'Houthi Transport Ministry'? Come on now.
Otherwise known as the Houthi Smuggling Ministry.
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2024, 07:51:56 AMQuote from: MengJiao on March 02, 2024, 03:32:37 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on March 02, 2024, 02:58:43 PMwell the Navy has been shooting shit down left and right, maybe this is just the one that hit finally.
Apparently, the US Navy has been hitting Houthi missiles when they switch on their launchers or their own systems start revving up for launch (radars? Radio guidance? Just rolling up to a firing position?). The Houthis don't seem to have hit much lately and even the Italian navy is shooting down Houthi drones.
And things go on being odd in Houthiland. They claim US and British navy vessels messed up the cables. Okay, so this claim seems oddly generic -- how would they know it was the US or British vessels that messed up the cables? Rather than any of the other ships and other stuff shooting at things all over the Red Sea?
CAIRO (Reuters) - The Houthi Transport Ministry in Yemen said on Saturday there had been a "glitch" in undersea communication cables in the Red Sea as a result of actions by U.S. and British naval vessels.
The actions "endangered the security and safety of the international communications and the flow of information," the ministry said in a statement, reported by the Houthi-run Saba news agency, without giving details.
More puzzling stuff. Two ships over the last few months have been hit and abandoned and have sunk and are sinking. One of the missiles killed 3 crewmen on one of the ships which the news keeps reporting as "the first lethal attack" along with that "expensive drone" (one of three over the last five years that the Houthi have shot down).
Several things seem odd. First of all about 200 Houthi seem to have been killed and the strikes are hitting ships in the Gulf of Aden now -- not the Red Sea. So the Houthi are shooting from a relatively remote area far from the middle of Houthiland.
Second, while drones are "expensive" -- how expensive are 200 dead Houthi? Apparently not "expensive" at all.
Anyway, as with most things -- I just don't get it at all.
The Houthis apparently have UUVs, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68595451
Quote"This is deadly stuff," says Captain Dave Wroe, who commands the four US Navy destroyers which provide the extra protection for the carrier.
It arrived soon after Yemen's Houthi's began to target merchant vessels - they say in response to Israel's assault on Gaza.
Captain Wroe lists the threats they've been facing over the past four months: anti-ship ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, unmanned surface vessels, and now unmanned underwater vessels, or UUVs, all loaded with explosives.
UUVs are the latest threat. He says the F-18 jets on board the carrier have recently destroyed UUVs, before they could be launched.
Captain Wroe says the Houthis have posed the greatest challenge to the US Navy in recent history.
"This is the most since World War Two," he says. That was the last time the US operated in an area where they could be fired upon every day.
^Wow, that last sentence really resonates. Luckily the Houthis can fire but are still quite ineffective. Hoping they are slow learners.
Quote from: Gusington on March 18, 2024, 07:50:20 PM^Wow, that last sentence really resonates. Luckily the Houthis can fire but are still quite ineffective. Hoping they are slow learners.
They may have had a lot of help but they have competent engineers and unfortunately a lot of technical know how. Going back a few years https://gwynnedyer.com/2018/yemeni-missiles-ssdd/
QuoteJane's Information Group Ltd, established in 1898, is the world's leading independent provider of intelligence and analysis on defense matters. Here is what Jeremy Binnie, Middle East/Africa Editor of Jane's Defence Weekly, said about Yemen's rockets in 2017 in Jane's Intelligence Review.
"The Burkan-2 appears to use a new type of warhead section that is locally fabricated. Both Iran and North Korea have displayed Scud derivatives with shuttlecock-shaped warheads, but none of these match the Yemeni version. The range of the Burkan missiles also appears to have been extended by a reduction in the weight of their warheads."
I think Dr. Dyer has come around to accepting that presently Iran is supplying the Houthis, but he is arguing against that in this older article and questioning the US administrations motives in saying that they were.
UK destroyer shoots down a Houti missile targeted at a merchant ship.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hms-diamond-just-taught-our-enemies-an-important-lesson/ar-AA1nId4z?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=ac7e55233e834ddc907ce5106efdee2a&ei=19 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hms-diamond-just-taught-our-enemies-an-important-lesson/ar-AA1nId4z?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=ac7e55233e834ddc907ce5106efdee2a&ei=19)