Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Groggy]

there are already photos of leo2s being fitted with ERA, which should be interesting.  I'm also wondering how many atgm the russians have to use.  Im sure its a fair amount but....?

Yeah, I was going off of a quote tweet from Brynn Tannehill from a few days back who was commenting on the thin armor of the Leopard 1's that pretty much turns the tank into a death trap. She quote tweeted someone who tweeted a Forbes article that stated the Leopard 1A5 models are on track to be the most common Western tank when they start arriving to the Ukraine next month.

[GDS_Starfury]

so..... anthrax

seems that while digging trenches in the south some russians dug up a cow graveyards and most of the unit caught natural anthrax.       this was reported by the mayor of Melitopol.

[Sir Slash]

That has to be utterly devastating for them. 

[GDS_Starfury]

the result of 9 months....  ffs ruzzians are stupid.

[JasonPratt]

Speaking of new tanks in Russia and combined arms plus standoff distance being important...

...the T-14 Armatas are here! Soon they will be wictory!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-best-tanks-are-in-ukraine-russian-state-media-says-but-they-re-not-assaulting-kyiv-s-forces-just-shooting-at-them-from-a-distance/ar-AA1almZV?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=53f06f2525bf4e62ac27a2c1107c11f3&ei=31

The tanks, which have been eleven years in the making, are so new that deploying them to fight in Ukraine would be a "high-risk decision," the British Defense Ministry said earlier this year.

"If Russia deploys T-14, it will likely primarily be for propaganda purposes," the British Defense Ministry said in January. "Production is probably only in the low tens, while commanders are unlikely to trust the vehicle in combat."

[Sir Slash]

    The Ukrainian Farm Tractors are waiting for them. "Come closer Comrades. Just...a...little...closer".

[Gusington]

Makes me wonder further - what took so long?

[SirAndrewD]

Makes me wonder further - what took so long?

Lots of reasons.  In the years since the tank premiered they've managed to build less than 20 of the things, and there's a lot of good reasons to question its actual battlefield capabilities. 

The propaganda damage of losing even one to fire in combat, let alone one get captured, would be catastrophic. 

There's little evedince the T-14 can really do much of anything with the few numbers in service and the immense propaganda albatross hanging around its neck.

I'd imagine that, if it really is deployed, they're hoping to make use of the supposed range of its main gun and optics to snipe UAF armor outside of their ability to reliably return effective fire.  If that's the case they'll want to keep it clear of any NATO provided tanks that could shoot back.

[Gusington]

How much worse could it be to lose some Armatas compared to the sinking of the Moskva or the loss of all international credibility for the next 100 years?

[SirAndrewD]

How much worse could it be to lose some Armatas compared to the sinking of the Moskva or the loss of all international credibility for the next 100 years?

Compared to the Moskva, potentially a lot.  They've put a huge amount of clout and propaganda into the invincible Armata and Su-57, the "best tank and best airplane in the world" according to the Russian press.  Seeing one of those fail on the battlefield shows what a total failure the modernization programs in the Russian Army that Putin started years ago have been.

The Moskva, for all its prestige, was still an old Soviet era warship that was long overdue being put out to pasture.  The Armata has become the symbol of Russia's ability to stand up to the west and fight NATO on a one to one basis in technology.

It would be even worse if the UAF got hold of one and shipped it off to NATO to take a look under the hood.  The Russians have been VERY careful to not let the T-14 get looked over too closely, even when they parade it about in Red Square.  I don't think they want NATO to get a full understanding of its true capabilities, or lack thereof.

[GDS_Starfury]

sinking whats left of their arms industry 

[FarAway Sooner]

there are already photos of leo2s being fitted with ERA, which should be interesting.  I'm also wondering how many atgm the russians have to use.  Im sure its a fair amount but....?

Yeah, I was going off of a quote tweet from Brynn Tannehill from a few days back who was commenting on the thin armor of the Leopard 1's that pretty much turns the tank into a death trap. She quote tweeted someone who tweeted a Forbes article that stated the Leopard 1A5 models are on track to be the most common Western tank when they start arriving to the Ukraine next month.

Yeah, there are lots of Leopard 1's getting dusted off in stockpiles from places like Germany, Holland, Denmark, Spain, and Greece (?) I think.  The last number I saw was 125 of them.  Nobody's really comparing them as being equal to the Challengers, Abrams, or Leopards, but there will be more of them.  I suspect that they might well be on par with a lot of the tanks that the Ukrainians are using in a front-line capacity today--I have no idea how the armor of a mothballed Lep 1 compares to that of a T-64 or a T-62, but I suspect there's not much difference.

To the extent that Western tanks make a difference, it'll be the Leopard 2s.  Not only are they going to be much more numerous (100+ Leopard 2s vs. 31 M1A1s), but all their spare parts are produced and stockpiled a few hundred miles away from Ukraine.  The Bradleys aren't getting nearly as much love as the MBTs, but they're going to be more numerous and just as critical in keeping an armored combat group alive and moving forward.

[Gusington]

I don't think Russian proprietary defense tech is much more advanced than say, Iranian or North Korean tech. I could be wrong but...I just don't think so.

If Ukraine captured an Armata they could probably just add to what they know about it's weaknesses already.

If the Armata is even close to a match to Western tanks I will eat my hat.

[Sir Slash]

Serious question. How much, or none at all, would the always reliable A-10 Warthog help Ukraine in their war with the Orcs? How difficult would it be for us to ship them over and operate them in the Ukraine and wouldn't it be easier to teach their pilots how to fly them than more advanced aircraft? The Air Force hates them anyway, why not give them to somebody who can really use them?

[Gusington]

^IIRC there was a controversy early last year about sending Warthogs over for fear of poking the Russian bear more.

Not sure if anyone still cares now.