Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Sir Slash]

Just over a month ago, daring to suggest that the Ukrainians couldn't defeat the Russkies militarily would've been considered, 'Heresy' and this guy labeled a Pro-Russian Propagandist. I'm glad to see a more even-handed and honest appraisal of what's costing the lives of so many on both sides. Finally.

To be fair to the Ukrainians, there's not been land combat on this scale since, what, Korea? And that was far smaller in territory involved. I think they're tactically sound but it's the Operational part they haven't gotten down pat yet. And who could blame them, they only began to try to build a modern army a couple years back and that cannot be done on the quick and cheap can it?

Next up will be the part-time military experts telling us they predicted this all along and, as usual, were always right.

[GDS_Starfury]

well your free to have whatever opinion you want based on whatever news services you use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network  real lovely people...

[Jarhead0331]

well your free to have whatever opinion you want based on whatever news services you use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Network  real lovely people...

Why don't you try listening to what they actually say and investigate their sources rather than simply looking for a way to discredit a view you disagree with? As unpleasant as it may be, what they are saying is largely the truth.

Besides, other than being labeled as "Libertarian" by wikipedia, what else, aside from the facts they are publicizing, do you find objectionable?

[Sir Slash]

I believe it was the NY Times that published the shocking casualty figures from the war so far for both sides, 500,000. And that was only an estimate. Last time I looked they were NOT a Right Wing mouthpiece. 

Star, I love you Brother, but a while back you asked me if there would ever be a post I wouldn't try to bring my politics into? So now I'll ask you the same?

[GDS_Starfury]

these are the clowns your worried about?

[GDS_Starfury]

As unpleasant as it may be, what they are saying is largely the truth.

according to them.  there are many truths and opinions about a great many things. 
I choose the opinion that this war is the best chance to bury russia for decades and remove them from the international board.  and whats it costing us?  equipment bought and paid for decades ago, a revitalized NATO, a rounding error in the west GDP.
and I wasnt trying to get political Slash, I was just pointing out the source.  we should all be well past just taking a video at face value.

[ArizonaTank]

...we should all be well past just taking a video at face value.

I often find it somewhere between sickening and hilarious that most of these videos are by folks whose sole qualification is that they know where to get a good microphone and how to produce a decent YouTube video or podcast.

Very few of them had any real concept of modern warfare prior to them waking up one day and suddenly realizing they could get "views" (and thus a chance at monetization) by presenting their opinion with passion and hint of conspiracy.

And yes, the question of 'if the Ukrainians are winning fast enough (or not at all)' is sadly becoming "political," even if we don't like it.

In the US, with the Presidential election next year, there are already folks on both sides of the political equation staking out opposite stances on supporting Ukraine; there are already YouTubers and podcasters lining up on both sides.

All of this is sad and sickening because every minute there are good men and women, fighting, losing limbs and dying in this criminal war.

I am now re-reading the great book by David Hackett Fisher called "Washington's Crossing" about Washington's crossing of the Delaware and miracle victory at Trenton just after Christmas, 1776. The American army was in a really horrid state prior to that battle. I am glad there weren't any podcasters around to tell them and Washington how badly they were losing.

[Skoop]

I've seen a couple geopolitical guys say that neither side can afford to wage this war and loose young working class people.  Hence why why the sketchy Russians are kidnapping Ukrainian kids by the thousands.  Geopolitically Russia is already lost, and Ukraine has deep wounds that will take years to repair.  Both sides are headed for deep economic crash when this is over, so I would agree, they should both stop.  Unfortunately the Russians are such tools, they won't stop, they will ride this to destruction.

[GDS_Starfury]

and, as has been mentioned before, a 24 hour news cycle during D-Day.

[GDS_Starfury]

and Ukraine has deep wounds that will take years to repair

Ukraine will hopefully get some modern form of the Marshall Plan.
the russians can go fuck themselves.

[Jarhead0331]

...we should all be well past just taking a video at face value.

I often find it somewhere between sickening and hilarious that most of these videos are by folks whose sole qualification is that they know where to get a good microphone and how to produce a decent YouTube video or podcast.

Very few of them had any real concept of modern warfare prior to them waking up one day and suddenly realizing they could get "views" (and thus a chance at monetization) by presenting their opinion with passion and hint of conspiracy.

And yes, the question of 'if the Ukrainians are winning fast enough (or not at all)' is sadly becoming "political," even if we don't like it.

In the US, with the Presidential election next year, there are already folks on both sides of the political equation staking out opposite stances on supporting Ukraine; there are already YouTubers and podcasters lining up on both sides.

All of this is sad and sickening because every minute there are good men and women, fighting, losing limbs and dying in this criminal war.

I am now re-reading the great book by David Hackett Fisher called "Washington's Crossing" about Washington's crossing of the Delaware and miracle victory at Trenton just after Christmas, 1776. The American army was in a really horrid state prior to that battle. I am glad there weren't any podcasters around to tell them and Washington how badly they were losing.

I'm really curious what it takes to qualify as "news" that is worthy of being considered. Mainstream media sources have widely been discredited as being trustworthy, which is what caused the proliferation of alternative news sources on youtube and other social media. Now these guys seem to be automatically discredited, not based on the content of what they are reporting, but instead on the lack of some magical level of credentialing that would qualify them as strategic or military experts. Find me a video of some warmonger who wants this conflict to continue until the Russian military is utterly destroyed and then make the case for why it should be discredited.

You rightly complain about how the war is becoming political by opposite sides staking claims, but then seem to be doing the very same thing, unless I'm just misunderstanding your point. Yes, it is sad that people continue to die in this criminal war, yet whenever someone stands up and says the war should end, they are automatically targeted as being, pro-Russian, defeatist, or worse. Such a bizarre irony. Those who claim to be so sickened by the loss of life and destruction seem to be the very ones who want it to continue. 

[Windigo]

I've seen a couple geopolitical guys say that neither side can afford to wage this war and loose young working class people.  Hence why why the sketchy Russians are kidnapping Ukrainian kids by the thousands.  Geopolitically Russia is already lost, and Ukraine has deep wounds that will take years to repair.  Both sides are headed for deep economic crash when this is over, so I would agree, they should both stop.  Unfortunately the Russians are such tools, they won't stop, they will ride this to destruction.

I can see the Ukraine being very successful doing an after the conflict 'war bride' social engineering thing. "Come on over here, get a job, get married to a gorgeous Ukraine bride and bang out the kids."
It's worked before elsewhere.

[GDS_Starfury]

how about the west lets Ukraine decide when the war ends and at the same time give them every means available to achieve that result.
they feel they can and will keep going.  thats the opinion that means most to me, not some think tanks.

[Windigo]

JH
United States was late to both World Wars because of politics, no reason to think that any major European conflict would not be the same.

Probably the most recent example.
3 years roughly to get involved in the Bosnian Conflict in 1995.

[Jarhead0331]

how about the west lets Ukraine decide when the war ends and at the same time give them every means available to achieve that result.
they feel they can and will keep going.  thats the opinion that means most to me, not some think tanks.

I agree with the first part of your suggestion. The West should let Ukraine decide when the war should end. So far, I believe the West has several times discouraged and possibly outright prevented them from doing so. As far as "giving them every means available", on this, I cannot agree.