Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Crossroads]

Then again, to be truly able to use her population advantage, Russia would need to call a mobilisation. So far they've mostly recruited non-Russian ethnicities from poor rural areas, where wages paid in Ukraine are quite formidable. I am not sure what would happen if herrenvolk themselves would need to join the fight in large numbers. So far war has been intentionally non visible in major cities.

For Ukraine, on the other hand, it is an existential struggle, to capitulate would mean a brutal occupation.

Above said, I don't disagree with what you wrote as such.

[Sir Slash]

Con, I tried to read the articles you provided. The WAPO article can't accessed without giving an E-Mail address which I won't do. The Council on Foreign Relations article I did read and it clearly and rightly lists the U.S. as far and above the largest provider of all types of aid to Ukraine especially, 'pledged' aid. Which maybe as it should be, but if this war threatens European peace more so than our own, shouldn't they be the principal contributors?

This war looks likely to last another year at least, maybe 2 or more. It's only prudent to ask what the cost will be and if it's worth the price?

[Crossroads]

Con, I tried to read the articles you provided. The WAPO article can't accessed without giving an E-Mail address which I won't do. The Council on Foreign Relations article I did read and it clearly and rightly lists the U.S. as far and above the largest provider of all types of aid to Ukraine especially, 'pledged' aid. Which maybe as it should be, but if this war threatens European peace more so than our own, shouldn't they be the principal contributors?

This war looks likely to last another year at least, maybe 2 or more. It's only prudent to ask what the cost will be and if it's worth the price?

Here's a reliable NGO with trackers on aid on Ukraine. As you have observed, as the worlds greatest military power, US is leading the military aid to Ukraine. In pure numbers that is.

If you look at the per GDP aid, US is actually at #21, with Eastern European nations doing their most to help Ukraine.

Financial aid, EU institution itself is the greatest provider of aid, while individual EU nations add to that as well.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/

[Crossroads]

^Actually, the pie chart, second from top on left column, is the most easy to access.

It is based on money, not percentage, but roughly speaking it has US as having provided some 55 % of all military aid, some 30 % of all financial aid, and some 20+% of all humanitarian aid.

If each pie reflects their true portion, that is.

But for once, it is a coalition where everyone's carrying their weight, more or less.

[Windigo]

Andrew, I assume that this means that the Russians stole all their Skodas and school buses?

Levity aside, I agree with Jarhead that the loss of life in this conflict is appalling and tragic.  There are clearly some good guys and some bad guys in this conflict, but that doesn't absolve the good guys of all scrutiny nor should it mean that asking tough questions makes us sympathetic to the bad guys.

I still don't understand, as a country, how we haven't been able to just produce about 10,000,000 extra artillery rounds and get those to the Ukrainians.  I assume it's because we relying on the free market and profit motives to make it happen?

As my job deals with scaling manufacturing in a highly demanding, exacting precision and very regulated (for good reasons) industry I can sympathies with the manufacturers here.  US has not invested in being able to scale up in manufacturing of critical defense consumable infrastructure for over 40 years and suddenly they are being asked to go to wartime footing in under 12 months.
Make no mistake one of the greatest benefits for the US defense industry and the Us economy from this conflict is that finally the non sexy shit like capital equipment, business continuity planning, Kaizens, lean six sigma and resources are finally being poured and applied to the US arms industry.  This will be a bigger benefit to the US for the next generations over any type of new tank/plane or ship platform.  That is why this war will eventually make the US a more formidable adversary to any potential conflict in the next 30 years.
Napoleons quote still rings true - "The amateurs discuss tactics: the professionals logistics"
PS what do you think won the war in WW2 - The troops or the material advantages that the US manufacturing base brought?

Both of course, on the US/West side anyway.


Strickly material advantages on the Eastern Front though.

[Windigo]

ATACMS?

I think it could depend on the variant, the payload, the method of employment, targets, etc. It's not always going to be so simple as spinning a wheel and seeing on what system it lands.

Well France has made this a moot point now..... so give'm some ATACMS!

[Jarhead0331]

Con, I tried to read the articles you provided. The WAPO article can't accessed without giving an E-Mail address which I won't do. The Council on Foreign Relations article I did read and it clearly and rightly lists the U.S. as far and above the largest provider of all types of aid to Ukraine especially, 'pledged' aid. Which maybe as it should be, but if this war threatens European peace more so than our own, shouldn't they be the principal contributors?

This war looks likely to last another year at least, maybe 2 or more. It's only prudent to ask what the cost will be and if it's worth the price?

You would think that the European interest in restoring peace and stability would be paramount. Unfortunately, prolonging and escalating a war that will result in the removal of Russia as a geopolitical competitor for global markets, no matter the cost to others, including American citizens and the rest of the world at large, seems to be the overriding motive of the US economic machine, of the MIC and others.

[Crossroads]

Prigo's plane has fallen from a window?


edit/update:

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was on the passenger list of a plane which crashed in Russia, killing all 10 on board. He was believed to be on board the plane.

Earlier, a Wagner-linked Telegram channel Grey Zone reported that the jet was shot down by air defences in Tver region, north of Moscow. Prigozhin led a failed mutiny against the Russian armed forces in June.

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66599733

[Windigo]

I got that early news on Twitter. Interesting stuff that is Russian politics (who knew that in a kleptocracy promises mean shit?).

[Con]

Prigo's plane has fallen from a window?


edit/update:

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was on the passenger list of a plane which crashed in Russia, killing all 10 on board. He was believed to be on board the plane.

Earlier, a Wagner-linked Telegram channel Grey Zone reported that the jet was shot down by air defences in Tver region, north of Moscow. Prigozhin led a failed mutiny against the Russian armed forces in June.

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66599733

I was trying to come up with a window quip as well.

[Jarhead0331]

Being on the passenger list and being an actual passenger are two totally different things.

[Con]

Being on the passenger list and being an actual passenger are two totally different things.

Honestly would you really be surprised if he got bumped off?

[Jarhead0331]

Being on the passenger list and being an actual passenger are two totally different things.

Honestly would you really be surprised if he got bumped off?

Of course not, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he and others wanted everyone to think that.

[Tripoli]

Assuming the story is true, and Prigozhin is dead, I am surprised only because:

a) He didn't fall out of a window, or alternatively was poisoned with  polonium-210
b) He lived approximately 30 days longer than I was predicting

[SirAndrewD]

Witnesses say the plane was hit with a SAM.

Video seems consistent with that.