Russia's War Against Ukraine

[SirAndrewD]

It's really gonna come down to who uses the least shittiest Soviet tactics, isn't it?

Indicated by both sides using damn AIR ASSAULT DIVISIONS on ground pushes and/or defense.  I guess we should just thank God and decent amounts of Ukrainian ack-ack that Putlin's side can't convert their air superiority into actually using AADs as AADs effectively. (Although I suppose if they did, they'd lack the ground pushiness to catch up.)

Both units merely inherited the historical name and combat lineage of the units.  Neither are airborne or airmobile though the Russian formation does have a helicopter borne regiment with airmobile option although it is capable and trained primarily to operate as a ground assault force.

Both were reorganized into Mechanized divisions well before the war and are intended to operate as such.  "Air Assault" is just an indicator of special elite status.

[GDS_Starfury]

[DetCord]

It's really gonna come down to who uses the least shittiest Soviet tactics, isn't it?

Indicated by both sides using damn AIR ASSAULT DIVISIONS on ground pushes and/or defense.  I guess we should just thank God and decent amounts of Ukrainian ack-ack that Putlin's side can't convert their air superiority into actually using AADs as AADs effectively. (Although I suppose if they did, they'd lack the ground pushiness to catch up.)

As Andrew point out those are primarily inherited names, though a few do have rotary-wing assets. They just can't employ them due to Russian SAM and MANPADS capabilities.

One of the worst aspects of this entire thing is that elite units like the 47th MB which were trained by NATO forces in the UK and Germany and outfitted with the latest equipment have suffered huge casualties, including swaths of their NCO and Officer cadre which as you know, aren't easily replaced.

It also doesn't help that the Ukrainians are being taught COIN tactics for whatever reason. Not very helpful in a conventional/kinetic combined-arms battlespace where maneuver of large elements is key.

"I don't want to say anything against our partners, but they don't quite understand our situation and how we are fighting," said a senior intelligence sergeant in the newly formed 41st Mechanised Brigade who goes by the name 'Dutchman'. "That's why the main training and the integrated training happens here."

Members of the 41st Brigade said that their instructors often used examples of NATO operations in the Middle East, where the objective is to clear houses and identify potential insurgents among the local population, but "that's not really relevant to us".

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/ukraine-russia-training-nato-west-military/

[FarAway Sooner]

Although not entirely surprising, that is disappointing.

After the war is over, assuming that some semblance of Ukrainian independence remains, it'll be interesting to see what academic researchers make of this war.  It's funny how quickly the politicians get involved in writing those histories after a war is won...

[GDS_Starfury]

[GDS_Starfury]

whats the infantry version of NTC in the US?

[DetCord]

Although not entirely surprising, that is disappointing.

After the war is over, assuming that some semblance of Ukrainian independence remains, it'll be interesting to see what academic researchers make of this war.  It's funny how quickly the politicians get involved in writing those histories after a war is won...

Thing is, we have the training, TTP's, and doctrine to properly enable Ukrainian Forces to fight, survive, and even win. Said aspects might be in some dusty old CI Warsaw Pact manuals, but it's still there. And given the fact that Russian doctrine remains almost unchanged since the days of the RKKA it's even more absurd to have not trained and or adopted said modern means.

It was one thing when we were deployed in defense-in-depth and wiping out entire companies and battalions. Jesus, myself and Mack killed well over 70 Russians from a fixed position alone. It's something else entirely to go on the offensive utilizing the exact same tactics that the Russians utilized in the opening days. This whole thing (counter-offensive) is a giant cluster-fuck with crusty, stuck-in-their-way old ass men, former Soviet officers, running the show that have a complete lack of understanding of modern conventional warfare.

For them it's the same as it was with regards to WWII, the Czech Revolt, Afghanistan, and Chechnya. All they know is throwing numbers at a problem.       

[ArizonaTank]

whats the infantry version of NTC in the US?

Probably the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) at Fort Johnson (old Ft. Polk), Louisiana.

[Jarhead0331]

whats the infantry version of NTC in the US?

Probably the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) at Fort Johnson (old Ft. Polk), Louisiana.

What about CAX out at Twenty-nine Palms? While definitely an emphasis on combined arms and fire support, infantry operations are obviously a major component and training objective.

[Jarhead0331]

...and, I'll just leave this here.

https://warisboring.com/new-video-sparks-speculation-that-wagner-boss-is-still-alive-as-russia-denies-international-investigation/?fbclid=IwAR1scVO_P30hIDYjIoB89VforUZ9bQgJYbgOkUdgabdiV-Iz5qmVYsr6Ce4

[GDS_Starfury]

for Juice. 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1697276003175878840

[GDS_Starfury]

thank you Arizona and JH.  maybe, based on Dets experience, Ukrainian NCOs and whatnot should get training at those establishments and not in Europe.  I can kind of see where British and German training might not have the scope or resources that the US has.

[Skoop]

I thought fort Irwin was the big combined arms training area.  Home of the infamous Opfor.  I came across a box of discarded Opfor unis when I was doing work there, it was a sweet find.

[GDS_Starfury]

ya NTC is awesome but also oriented towards mechanized formations.  if the UAF aren't going that route then an infantry oriented program would make more sense.

[FarAway Sooner]

All of those would be American locations, obviously.  I assume that the Ukrainian units received most of their training in European army bases, from European instructors.  But that's just a guess.

NATO doctrine can be the same, but that doesn't mean that every nations' instructors bring the same emphasis to the table.  I'm confident that those reports of COIN training are but.  But it's unclear how much COIN training they received, or how many units received it at all.  This is the sort of anecdotal stuff that spreads like wildfire through media channels and public perception, but never gets quantified.

I suspect Detcord may be closer to the truth than the rest of us.