Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Jarhead0331]

I heard on FOX this morning the Ukrainians are saying the Nuke plant is being run by their staff at gunpoint by Chechnyans working for the Russkies. And there are more nuclear power plants in the path on of the Russians. Could be just a propaganda story by the Ukes.

OK...at least they are running the plant.

[Jarhead0331]

seems to be updated often

https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/03-march-kharkiv2255-red-alert-aerial-threat-g

Great link. Thanks.

[ComradeP]

Based on estimates from earlier today, over 1.2 million Ukrainians have fled across Ukraine's western borders in the first week of the war. Mostly across the border with Poland.

About 1 in 34 Ukrainians have fled the country if the estimates are correct.

Countries across Europe are preparing to aid the refugees in various ways, but it's debatable if proper accommodations are available at short notice for such a large and ever increasing group of refugees.

The Netherlands is preparing to potentially take in about 2000 people (50.000 total) in all of its 25 "safety regions", public bodies for crisis management and maintaining public order.

Exactly how that's supposed to happen isn't entirely clear at this time, the government services for taking in refugees were already facing serious issues before the war in Ukraine. Field beds in buildings for indoor sports, maybe. Spokespeople for only a handful of safety regions have said they will take in 2000 refugees. Discussions between the local and national government will continue on Monday.

In other news, the Duma passed the "fake news" law that was proposed earlier this week. Journalists and Russian civilians risk up to 15 years in prison and up to a 1,5 million (12.600 euro's, but likely to be much less soon...) Russian ruble fine.

As a result, the BBC and other (European) news networks/agencies are shutting down operations in Russia or even moving their journalists out of the country.

[FarAway Sooner]

Putin's behavior has been fairly rational, if you assume he's a psychotic bully with delusions of grandeur and surrounded by sycophants who rose to power based on their ability to keep him happy.  The greatest danger to people living outside Ukraine comes from events in Ukraine spiraling out of Putin's control and his getting more and more rash in his efforts to hang onto power in Russia.

That doesn't mean that we need to be afraid of him, but we need to be very calculating and very strategic in how we handle him.

Jamus, we all have different opinions on this.  I think it's outdated to say that Germany needs to limit itself to a pacifistic, humanitarian role in European affairs going forward. 

I don't follow German politics closely these days, but my sense is that the Germans have acknowledged their sins and spent the last 75 years trying to atone for them.  They need to continue to be shackled to Civilization through entities like NATO, the EU, the European Community, and the G7.  But they also need to begin to step more aggressively into a leadership role in Europe.  That includes starting to invest more in their military, and a much stronger commitment to sending troops abroad within the framework of a multinational structure.

The German economy is three-and-a-half times the size of the Russian economy.  Germany is the first among equals in Western Europe.  They need to start acting the part, and stop just looking out for the economic interests of German banks and German consumers.

[ComradeP]

In terms of military expenditure, many EU countries have not been taking their responsibility. Once again, it takes a ground war in Europe for them to wake up. I'm ashamed my country managed to get away with not meeting the 2% GDP military expenditure NATO requirements since 1993.

[solops]

Putin's behavior has been fairly rational, if you assume he's a psychotic bully with delusions of grandeur and surrounded by sycophants who rose to power based on their ability to keep him happy.

Exactly! I mean, gee man! Give the guy a break. It is not easy balancing domestic suppression with external aggression. Thank the powers for the voices in his head, helping him out.

[ComradeP]

Putin's behavior has been fairly rational, if you assume he's a psychotic bully with delusions of grandeur and surrounded by sycophants who rose to power based on their ability to keep him happy.

There's also the matter of Putin being very careful with the Covid situation or even afraid of the virus. The enormous tables and the seating arrangements in the Kremlin are not just for show. Putin's out of touch with every day life by choice, aside from any mental issues.

[MengJiao]

Putin's behavior has been fairly rational, if you assume he's a psychotic bully with delusions of grandeur and surrounded by sycophants who rose to power based on their ability to keep him happy.

Exactly! I mean, gee man! Give the guy a break. It is not easy balancing domestic suppression with external aggression. Thank the powers for the voices in his head, helping him out.

  The irony is dense on these things.  Gosh!  We could have had s nuclear disaster by accident with the Chechenyeians driving half-a-dozen reactors, but apparently not. and then
The Russians are sure the Ukrainians have enough time and whatnot to "provoke" the Russian army:

"In the city of Kharkiv, Ukrainian nationalists are preparing a provocation with the participation of Western journalists," Konashenkov said in a video briefing released by the Russian MOD. "According to confirmed data, on Zhylyardi Street, Kyiv District, in a private residential area, multiple launch rocket systems are placed between the houses. Nationalists have forbidden local residents, including children, from leaving their homes. Now the installations are ready for shelling units of the Russian armed forces located outside the city. The purpose of the provocation is to call back fire from Russian artillery on the residential sector of Kharkiv. All this is planned to be filmed on cameras with the subsequent transfer of filming to Western journalists."

So okay a) how would they Russians know about this massive plot to get shot at b) if they did couldn't they just not shoot where they know the journalists or whoever might be filming
c) does anyone actually need to provoke the Russians into shooting?  Aren't they happy shooting on their own or sending some Chedchins to do it or almost blow up a reactor etc. etc. etc.?

[Pete Dero]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487  Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won't believe me'

The 25-year-old has been speaking regularly to her mother, who lives in Moscow. But in these conversations, and even after sending videos from her heavily bombarded hometown, Oleksandra is unable to convince her mother about the danger she is in.
"I didn't want to scare my parents, but I started telling them directly that civilians and children are dying," she says.
"But even though they worry about me, they still say it probably happens only by accident, that the Russian army would never target civilians. That it's Ukrainians who're killing their own people."
It's common for Ukrainians to have family across the border in Russia. But for some, like Oleksandra, their Russian relatives have a contrasting understanding of the conflict. She believes it's down to the stories they are told by the tightly-controlled Russian media.

Oleksandra says her mother just repeats the narratives of what she hears on Russian state TV channels.
"It really scared me when my mum exactly quoted Russian TV. They are just brainwashing people. And people trust them," says Oleksandra.
"My parents understand that some military action is happening here. But they say: 'Russians came to liberate you. They won't ruin anything, they won't touch you. They're only targeting military bases'."

Mykhailo, a well-known Kyiv restaurateur, didn't have the time or inclination to watch Russian TV coverage of the invasion.
When shelling of Ukraine's capital started, he and his wife were concentrating on how to protect their six-year-old daughter and baby son.
They travelled to Hungary, where Mykhailo left his wife and children and came back to Western Ukraine to help the war effort.
He was surprised not to have heard from his father, who works at a monastery near Nizhny Novgorod in Russia. He called his father and described what was happening. His father replied that this wasn't true; there was no war and - in fact - Russians were saving Ukraine from Nazis.
Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.

[ArizonaTank]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487  Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won't believe me'
....
Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.[/i]

I see that a major internet backbone provider Cogent, is disconnecting Russia as of today. This won't completely disconnect Russia from the total internet by any means, but might slow down their access to the outside world.

Cogent says they are doing it to counter cyber attacks and propaganda targeted at Ukraine.

However, I wonder if this is not a mistake. I am thinking that keeping as many information pipes open to Russia is the only way to combat the Russian propaganda problem in your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-internet-cogent-cutoff/

I think if Elon Musk really wants to help the world right now, he should open up Starlink to Russia as well as Ukraine.

BTW, by strange and ironic twist of history, the Internet, as first implemented in the US Department of Defense's, Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) in 1969, was designed partly to solve the problem: 'how do you keep your network working in a nuclear war.'  The solution was data packet switching architecture that automatically re-routes data when network links or nodes are lost or shutdown (as they would be in a nuclear war). This very nature would make it very hard, if not impossible to completely shut Russia down.

[Jarhead0331]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487  Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won't believe me'
....
Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.[/i]

I see that a major internet backbone provider Cogent, is disconnecting Russia as of today. This won't completely disconnect Russia from the total internet by any means, but might slow down their access to the outside world.

Cogent says they are doing it to counter cyber attacks and propaganda targeted at Ukraine.

However, I wonder if this is not a mistake. I am thinking that keeping as many information pipes open to Russia is the only way to combat the Russian propaganda problem in your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-internet-cogent-cutoff/

I think if Elon Musk really wants to help the world right now, he should open up Starlink to Russia as well as Ukraine.

I agree. Russians need more access to free information, not less.

[Gusington]

I also think further isolating Russian citizens will make for a more desperate situation all around.

[Skoop]

I agree, freedom of information is our most powerful weapon besides more javelins to the Ukrainians.

I like the starlink idea.  If that doesn't work we need to find a way to pump internet from the west into Russia.  Let them see what's going on in instagram, tik tok, and Facebook.

[Pete Dero]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487  Ukraine war: 'My city's being shelled, but mum won't believe me'
....
Mykhailo said he felt he knew the power of Russian propaganda, but when he heard it from his father, he was devastated.[/i]

I see that a major internet backbone provider Cogent, is disconnecting Russia as of today. This won't completely disconnect Russia from the total internet by any means, but might slow down their access to the outside world.

Cogent says they are doing it to counter cyber attacks and propaganda targeted at Ukraine.

However, I wonder if this is not a mistake. I am thinking that keeping as many information pipes open to Russia is the only way to combat the Russian propaganda problem in your post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/04/russia-ukraine-internet-cogent-cutoff/

I think if Elon Musk really wants to help the world right now, he should open up Starlink to Russia as well as Ukraine.

I agree. Russians need more access to free information, not less.

Access to internet is only part of the problem.  Access to correct data is getting impossible.

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084580235/russia-blocks-facebook-twitter?t=1646427817337
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/04/russia-completely-blocks-access-to-facebook-and-twitter

Russia has completely blocked access to Facebook in retaliation for the platform placing restrictions on state-owned media.

It was later reported that it had also blocked Twitter. The Russian state communications regulator said access had been restricted, according to the state-owned Ria news agency.

[Con]

I agree that the pipeline of data is irrelevant if you block the vehicles that access it
Also free unfettered access to multitude of sources has worked really well in unifying our society (thats sarcasm just in case) - dont think it would move the needle in an indoctrinated society like Russia.
Con