Russia's War Against Ukraine

[MengJiao]

oh, and sorry Pratt.  no western subs in the Black Sea at all.

I would accept any existent Israeli subs in that category.  >:D But we were speculating earlier about Turkish subs -- they had like 12 at the start of last year, right? -- and they're members of NATO now.

As for further-western NATO subs, I suppose even NATO grade subs couldn't get through the Turkish straits without being detected, and so would be caught in violation of various agreements. But I also know sub crews are famous for doing super-ballsy things and getting away with it, so...

(Come to think of it, I seem to recall British subs in WW1 running the Turkish straits into the Sea of Mamora to do some successful ops, which I had never heard of before, when reading Churchill's wartime memoirs. I should try to search for that again, see if I'm remembering that accurately.)

  Turkey has been in NATO since the beginning of NATO (well, not quite -- three years after the beginning -- Turkey joined NATO in 1952).  Moreover, if the Turks wanted to, they could probably clear the Russian fleet out of the Black Sea with drones alone and of course, Turkey closed the straits to Russian ships over two months ago.

[Gusington]

The recent posts fired my curiosity and so I found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Navy#Submarines

Originating in Germany, of course.

I think if we are looking for sub crews with balls...Israel is a great first choice.

Also this additional info:

'Currently under construction is a sixth Dolphin 2 submarine (INS Drakon). Additionally, Israel signed an MoU with Germany for the construction of three more Dolphin 2 submarines with expected delivery in the late 2020s which will replace its three Dolphin 1 submarines delivered in the late 1990s.'

[GDS_Starfury]

this is a tasty map update covering the last few days.
https://twitter.com/JominiW/status/1522989565631295489

[Pete Dero]

Currently under construction is a sixth Dolphin 2 submarine (INS Drakon)

I think I understand it now.  Putin must have said Russia needed Dolphins too.

[Gusington]

With laser beams?

[al_infierno]

 :hide:

[GDS_Starfury]

I dont know if youve every watched the russian tank biathlon but its was a friking joke.

[Dammit Carl!]

"Tank Ace," didn't mean what it was supposed to, I guess.

All that time at World of Tanks for naught, eh, Ivan?

[Millipede]

I don't see how there can be any subs in the Black Sea that aren't either Russian or Turkish. The only way for any water craft to get to the Black Sea from the Sea of Marmara is via the Bosporus which is a narrow, winding water way that runs through Istanbul. At its narrowest it is less than a mile wide and it's shallowest point is 42 ft. (13 m) and there are 4 major bridges plus heavy marine traffic. Any sub attempting passage would have to travel slowly on the surface and only with permission from Turkey. As I understand it, Turkey is remaining neutral and wants to maintain decent relations with both Ukraine and Russia and I don't know if they are allowing passage of any potential combatants. Bottom line... there are no NATO subs in the Black Sea.

Come to think of it, Turkish subs are technically NATO subs but Turkey is not going to start a war with Russia.

[GDS_Starfury]

have faith

https://twitter.com/i/status/1522793167476641793

[planetbrain]

Just a thought, but would it not be wonderful if the May 9th Russian parade could be hijacked to a significant extent. I would absolutely love to hear it go really pear shaped.
No harm in wishing !

[Staggerwing]

have faith

https://twitter.com/i/status/1522793167476641793

From the comments: "Turtles passing the Voight-Kampff test with flying colors."  :bd:

[Tripoli]

A follow up to my April 18 post on the sinking of the Moskva.  Sam LaGrone at USNI did a an analysis of the targeting and hit locations.  It is here: https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows

The major delta between the two analyses are that Mr. LaGrone thinks both hits were at the same location.  I'm not sold on that (yet), as I think the damage in that location could be the result of a single hit.  (with that said, the RCS of the ship would be at its max about there, so maybe both missiles homed in at the same location). 

[Edit/Addendum]: the "leaked" report IRT the material condition of the Moskva was translated and put here: https://twitter.com/GrangerE04117/status/1522643831736332288?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1522643831736332288%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com%2F2022%2F05%2F06%2Ftoc-ready-room-6-may-2022-intel-superheroes-of-america%2F

this indicates the SA-N-6, SA-N-4 and CWIS all had issues two weeks before the start of the war.  My thoughts are that while that very well might be true, it also may be a manufactured leak as a way for the Russians to mitigate some of the embarrassment from having their flagship sunk. ]

[Skoop]

Just a thought, but would it not be wonderful if the May 9th Russian parade could be hijacked to a significant extent. I would absolutely love to hear it go really pear shaped.
No harm in wishing !

I wonder if there will be any protests or sabotage at the may 9th parade.  What with all the weird fires breaking out at key places around Russia.

[planetbrain]

Trouble is though, there would be severe consequences. All is already bad enough & Ukraine is not supposed to fight back. That's an act of war!