Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Crossroads]

Ukrainian attack on reinforced Russian positions. Use of drones to manage the battlefield, for instance.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1576002705146920962

[GDS_Starfury]

well, so much for Lyman.   <:-)

[Crossroads]

well, so much for Lyman.   <:-)

Some master trolling by Ukrainians:

We thank the "Ministry of Defense" of 🇷🇺 for successful cooperation in organizing the "Izyum 2.0" exercise. Almost all russian troops deployed to Lyman were successfully redeployed either into body bags or into 🇺🇦 captivity. We have one question for you: Would you like a repeat?

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1576248108690079745

[GDS_Starfury]

the humor is strong with the Ukraine!  :bd:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1576215107180236801

[al_infierno]

^ Literally waltzing their way to the Kremlin!

On a less light note, this purported conversation from the POV of a Ukrainian soldier paints a very grim picture of the Russians' disorderly retreat.

https://ukrainevolunteer297689472.wordpress.com/2022/09/30/its-a-slaughter/

I came away shaking like a leaf, not scared, just wired and sick of killing people. On the way back —— got in a stream and washed off, and vomited his guts out. I was looking at his eyes and he was seeing things way back home.

[SirAndrewD]

Lines are moving fast, and it looks like the UAF is going for the throat and heading to Svatove. 

Seen reports that upwards of 5000 Russians surrendered or were killed/captured.  That'd be their biggest single loss of the war.  It seems like some of the men in Lyman had no idea they were being encircled and retreated right into UAF guns.

Kadryov is openly asking for the use of nukes to salvage the situation.  Losing Svatove would be extremely dangerous for the Russians.  Who knows what kind of forces they have between the Oskil defense line and there.   The UAF now has the chance to begin taking back chunks of Luhansk just a day after Putin annexed it.

[GDS_Starfury]

someone needs to watch out for open windows.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1576331334317879297

[SirAndrewD]

Keep seeing and hearing stories from UAF guys on the ground. 

Even more info that the Russian commanders never told their troops the overall situation.

The UAF opened a corridor of death like Desert Storm.  Gave them an avenue of retreat well within weapons fire.

The turkey shoot then began. 

[GDS_Starfury]

with what Ive seen Im wondering if the UAF has been using the MLRS cluster warheads that weve been giving them.

[SirAndrewD]

with what Ive seen Im wondering if the UAF has been using the MLRS cluster warheads that weve been giving them.

Sounds like they might've been. 

Just look at some of the NSFW material from the retreat corridor they left open.  It's a freaking charnel house.

The Russian command abandoned their men to die.  The MoD announced they'd had a "Tactical Withdrawal" from Lyman hours before the circle closed and their people on the ground didn't know. 

They left 5000 men in a pocket to be a speedbump.  An utter betrayal of the fighting men by their officers and government.

[al_infierno]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if modern Russia is even worse than Nazi Germany and the USSR in terms of cynical disregard for the lives of their fighting men.  I don't recall the Nazis or actual Soviets literally offering up 5,000 soldiers as a sacrificial lamb to the enemy just to buy a day or two of time.  From what I understand, Hitler at least believed the men he sent to die were valiantly fighting a winnable cause, not just slowing them down (even if that's what he was really doing).

Sir Andrew or any other proper historians can feel free to correct me!

[Skoop]

I am still looking for a full transcript of Putin's annexation speech. But apparently it was rambling list of grievances. The Guardian called it 'more angry taxi driver than world leader.'

Wapo summed it up in seven points:
1. Russia will never give up annexed regions
2. Ukraine must give in.
3. The West is trying to destroy Russia.
4. The United States, not Russia, poses a nuclear threat.
5. 'Anglo-Saxons' sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines.
6. Russia will never recognize LGBT rights.
7. In the words of Ivan Ilyin, Russia's 'destiny is my destiny.'

I guess number 6 is there well...just because.

Not to get too far off the subject, but I started watching Ken Burn's documentary on the US and Holocaust (a great documentary if you haven't seen it).

The documentary does a great job in showing the rise of Hitler and how he was basically telling the world what he was going to do, before he did it. The Sudetenland, Anschluss, over-running Czechoslovakia and Poland were not surprises for those who were watching the Nazis closely.

Fast forward to today. I can't help but get the feeling that it is 1936 all over again. And like Hitler, Putin is a gambler.

Putin's speech was just missing a reference to 'lebensraum.'

And who the hell is "Ivan Ilyin" anyway?

I've been saying this since day 1 of the invasion.  Stopping Putin in Ukraine is like stopping hitler in Czechoslovakia.

[SirAndrewD]

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if modern Russia is even worse than Nazi Germany and the USSR in terms of cynical disregard for the lives of their fighting men.  I don't recall the Nazis or actual Soviets literally offering up 5,000 soldiers as a sacrificial lamb to the enemy just to buy a day or two of time.  From what I understand, Hitler at least believed the men he sent to die were valiantly fighting a winnable cause, not just slowing them down (even if that's what he was really doing).

Sir Andrew or any other proper historians can feel free to correct me!

I don't think you're wrong. 

I need to look more heavily into it, but I know that based on a lot of what Glantz wrote on the Russians and the myriad of sources on the Germans...this kind of callous sacrifice wasn't common to either of them. 

There were of course desperate holding actions, No Step Back orders, Hitler's at times insane no retreat orders.  The entire Stalingrad campaign could've massively been easier for Germany if Hitler had simply let Paulus fall back.

They did leave formations to be exposed and overrun.  Both the Russians and Germans. 

The Germans could've even fallen back against the Western Allies in Cobra and avoided Falaise. 

Still, there wasn't this utter disregard and abandonment of the front line.  Both Russians and Germans were trying to preserve combat power when they could.  The Germans were usually worse than Russians in abandoning men and potential combat power by ordering men to stay in place when the situation was untenable. They of course would make sacrifices, but this seems to me different. 

This is them just cutting off 5000 troops, some of them in high quality formations like the Kuban Regiment.   

I saw videos about some of the garrisons in Lyman where Russian troops showed the squalor they were living in, and asked openly "Where are my officers?  No one here has seen an officer in days?  We don't even have a guard on the door.  We're in here alone".

I don't think the Russians or Germans ever abandoned their men to that extent, at least I haven't read the equivalent. 

[SirAndrewD]

I've been saying this since day 1 of the invasion.  Stopping Putin in Ukraine is like stopping hitler in Czechoslovakia.

Generally that has been my thought.

Appeasing Putin will embolden him.  His ambitions aren't limited to Ukraine. 

He's said he considers the Baltic States Russia.  He considers Moldova Russia. 

He has ambitions in Finland.  Poland's not off the table.

Thinking that you can just let him have Ukraine and he'll be satisfied and say "Oh, the Baltics are in NATO and I'll respect the red line even though they showed weakness" is folly.

Peace in our time typically isn't.

[al_infierno]

I don't think you're wrong. 

I need to look more heavily into it, but I know that based on a lot of what Glantz wrote on the Russians and the myriad of sources on the Germans...this kind of callous sacrifice wasn't common to either of them. 

There were of course desperate holding actions, No Step Back orders, Hitler's at times insane no retreat orders.  The entire Stalingrad campaign could've massively been easier for Germany if Hitler had simply let Paulus fall back.

They did leave formations to be exposed and overrun.  Both the Russians and Germans. 

The Germans could've even fallen back against the Western Allies in Cobra and avoided Falaise. 

Still, there wasn't this utter disregard and abandonment of the front line.  Both Russians and Germans were trying to preserve combat power when they could.  The Germans were usually worse than Russians in abandoning men and potential combat power by ordering men to stay in place when the situation was untenable. They of course would make sacrifices, but this seems to me different. 

This is them just cutting off 5000 troops, some of them in high quality formations like the Kuban Regiment.   

I saw videos about some of the garrisons in Lyman where Russian troops showed the squalor they were living in, and asked openly "Where are my officers?  No one here has seen an officer in days?  We don't even have a guard on the door.  We're in here alone".

I don't think the Russians or Germans ever abandoned their men to that extent, at least I haven't read the equivalent.

This is the exact impression I got as well.  This just feels cynical and callous beyond anything I've read about WWII.