Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Gusington]

CAESAROPAPISM!! I'm going back to bed.

[SirAndrewD]

CAESAROPAPISM!! I'm going back to bed.

I'm at work and never left.

[Pete Dero]

Putin a few minutes ago :

In a true democracy, Putin said, each country gets the chance to choose its own path. "Everyone should have that right. Russia too. No one will ever impose on us which society to build on which principles.

But if Russia wants to invade, you're not a real country.

[SirAndrewD]

But if Russia wants to invade, you're not a real country.

Putin made it very clear since February that he doesn't consider Ukraine a real country.  There's that factor that he regularly says "The Ukraine" rather than Ukraine.  Referring it to the traditional identity as the Russian "borderland" with Poland.  That's what Ukraine means. 

Pretty much anyone that was once in the old Russian Empire...Poland included....is Russia to him.

[MengJiao]

Exactly the reason for a more orderly and organized withdrawal, so much equipment left unaccounted for all of which would be left for the Taliban to use against the Afghan people or us. It really smacks of criminal incompetence.

  I thought the Afghan army was supposed to have all that stuff and be able to take on the Taliban.  The Taliban basically overran the army, right?  Or did something else happen?  I mean, if the US took
all the gear, wouldn't that have left the Afghan army without all that stuff?  Again, maybe I missed the finer points, but when the US left, didn't the Afghan army have the stuff we left there?  then the
Afghan army basically evaporated, right?  or did I miss something?

[Sir Slash]

Absolutely. But nobody really thought the Afghan National Army could or would fight the Taliban by themselves. That's why somebody should, and probably did, tell Washington all the equipment would be lost and needed to be moved or neutralized. However a great deal of equipment was still in American hands at the beginning of the collapse and should've been destroyed if nothing else.

And is, 'Grogpapism' a word too?

[Gusington]

^No

[Crossroads]

Putin made it very clear since February that he doesn't consider Ukraine a real country.  There's that factor that he regularly says "The Ukraine" rather than Ukraine.  Referring it to the traditional identity as the Russian "borderland" with Poland.  That's what Ukraine means. 

Pretty much anyone that was once in the old Russian Empire...Poland included....is Russia to him.

That is also why his talk of denazification is such a gruesome take. It is not aimed at western audiences but internal and Ukrainian audiences. They are there to free Ukrainians from their Neo-Nazi government, and if you fight them you are part of the Nazis and deserve to be liquidated.

:(

[JasonPratt]

^No

Donglepapism on the other hand....

[Gusington]

 

[FarAway Sooner]

Putin today declared martial law in much of Russia.  There's a detailed (and extremely cynical) take on the topic from the Carnegie Institute, suggesting that the declaration is good (and practical) for Putin but not so good for Russia (or the Russian conduct of the war).

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88250

[MengJiao]

Absolutely. But nobody really thought the Afghan National Army could or would fight the Taliban by themselves. That's why somebody should, and probably did, tell Washington all the equipment would be lost and needed to be moved or neutralized. However a great deal of equipment was still in American hands at the beginning of the collapse and should've been destroyed if nothing else.

And is, 'Grogpapism' a word too?

  Okay, so assuming one is going to leave (maybe that's the basic error-- you can't leave and expect the army to hang on but...assuming you are going to leave) when do you start blowing up or
removing the equipment that you have left with the army that you (erroneously or disingenuously ) think is going to be fighting the Taliban?  Apparently, the army collapsed really fast, but in any case
how do you as the exiting party start blowing up or removing the stuff you left for the army to fight with?

[MengJiao]

Putin today declared martial law in much of Russia.  There's a detailed (and extremely cynical) take on the topic from the Carnegie Institute, suggesting that the declaration is good (and practical) for Putin but not so good for Russia (or the Russian conduct of the war).

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/88250

  That's pretty confusing at all levels -- okay so suppose I'm a regional governor who now has an apparently new random array of powers to apply to (what exactly?  the war?  people I don't like? opinions I find disturbing? competing authorities? railroads?  Fuel supplies?  ) things -- at the same time, the special agencies now have even better random powers.  It's like a concealed reduction in my actual power
since it is not at all necessarily aligned with my aims at all and allows forces I can't control or foresee to freely intrude on my authority.

[FarAway Sooner]

That's it, pretty much.  Carnegie views it primarily as a means to shift blame for subsequent failures from Putin to regional governors.  Which might bode well for Putin's continue rule, but does not seem to bode well for Russian performance.

I never know whether to be impressed or appalled by the Russian people's seeming tolerance for adversity...

[Dammit Carl!]

  Okay, so assuming one is going to leave (maybe that's the basic error-- you can't leave and expect the army to hang on but...assuming you are going to leave) when do you start blowing up or
removing the equipment that you have left with the army that you (erroneously or disingenuously ) think is going to be fighting the Taliban?  Apparently, the army collapsed really fast, but in any case
how do you as the exiting party start blowing up or removing the stuff you left for the army to fight with?

I've no proof of what I'm about to say, but I would think that the equipment "left behind," was already dumbed down (i.e. BLUFOR tracker removed/ SINGARS removed, etc.) as much as possible - roughly equating into whatever we pass off as export models prior to hitting the eject button on the place.  Hell, the turn I took in country had us leaving our worn out vehicles behind and never getting them back once we wrung the snot out of them, for example.  And much like Iran, once you're out of the supply chain for your captured goods, it ain't like you can get all the parts you need to keep 'em moving once they do break down.

Now, if it's denial of service you want and you want it now, I've heard some willy pete &/or C4 will work wonders.