Russia's War Against Ukraine

[GDS_Starfury]

moving past that, what do you think of the points made?

[War Dog]

moving past that, what do you think of the points made?

I just read a very good twitter thread from Brynn Tannehill who parallels alot of Snyder's points.

https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1589616853709512704

Brynn Tannehill:

"Far from being a drain on US, support for Ukraine is a long term investment that's already paying off as the Russian military crumbles. Rather than being a national security risk, it allows the US to provide more credible deterrence against aggression in the Pacific."

Supporting Ukraine all the way to the finish is in US, and global interests. If we don't want a war in PACOM, one major piece of our long term deterrence strategy has to be full continued support for Ukraine. Period.

Timothy Snyder:

Reversing the U.S. policy of aiding Ukraine will undo all of these gains. There is still time to revive Russia and reassure China, which is what ending support of Ukraine will mean. Such a policy reversal would make Americans far less safe and secure.

My concerns about the Russian invasion of Ukraine are the prevention of genocide and the defense of democracy. But those who think first of U.S. interests should acknowledge what Ukrainians are doing for American security. The least we can do is be on our own side

By the way, Timothy Snyder's On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century should be required reading for EVERYONE.

[Sir Slash]

I don't disagree with any of the points in Mr. Snyder makes in his article other than the obviously biased and wrong title that it is Republicans only who oppose the support for Ukraine.

[GDS_Starfury]

I don't disagree with any of the points in Mr. Snyder makes in his article other than the obviously biased and wrong title that it is Republicans only who oppose the support for Ukraine.

I didnt get that take at all considering he points out shard blame and agreement.
also, there is no title.  its a combined twitter thread. 
its been a GOP talking point this campaign season about stopping  funding.  I also get that its a talking point on the trail and not whats actually being done in both houses to help the Ukraine.  both parties want to help and both parties have questions.
holy fuck, government actually working as intended.  <:-)

Im glad we agree that helping the Ukraine now solves a lot more problems later.

[War Dog]

I don't disagree with any of the points in Mr. Snyder makes in his article other than the obviously biased and wrong title that it is Republicans only who oppose the support for Ukraine.

Except for the fact that 11 GOP senators and 57 GOP house members (the only members who voted 'no') opposed the 40 billion dollar Ukraine aid package back in May. Also McCarthy recently stated there would be no more blank check for Ukraine if the Republicans win back the House majority this week. This demonstrates a shift and divide with McConnell who has been supportive of consistent aid to Ukraine.

[nelmsm]

Well I don't mind supporting them but I sure wish there was inspector General oversight on just where in the hell all the money is going.

[Jarhead0331]

Ok...now the conversation is shifting to the unnecessarily political without any bearing on the strategic situation. Bring it back to the actual war and not who is good or bad for supporting it or not.

[JasonPratt]

From the Wall Street Journal (via MSN newsfeed),

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/zelensky-sets-conditions-for-genuine-peace-talks-with-russia/ar-AA13RVB1?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=381dcbf2b83c48499a29d8f07107ecc6

The conditions are what you'd expect, although the key condition back in September probably remains in place: "Since Mr. Putin said in late September that swaths of Ukraine's east and south belonged to Russia, Kyiv has said it wouldn't negotiate with Moscow until there is a different leader in the Kremlin."

Putin personally remains the first problem.

[Sir Slash]

Interesting. A couple of months ago that statement would've gotten almost anyone else who said it, banned form Twitter & Facebook as a Putin-Lover. This can only be a positive sign. Remember the old Communist saying that there's 3 reasons to negotiate. To secure a victory, stave-off a defeat, or open a new front against the enemy. Right now it'll probably be more of a, 'New Front' thing I bet but who knows?

This time next year, Putin and Zelensky the Nobel Peace Prize?  ;D

[Gusington]

Has Putin ever been Time Man of the Year?

[Jarhead0331]

Has Putin ever been Time Man of the Year?

No. But both Hitler and Stalin were, so he'd be in good company.

EDIT: He is on the list...2007!

[Pete Dero]

Has Putin ever been Time Man of the Year?

Yes. 



http://content.time.com/time/specials/2007/personoftheyear/article/0,28804,1690753_1690757,00.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-time-idUSN1956834820071219

But as Time stated : TIME's Person of the Year is not and never has been an honor. It is not an endorsement. It is not a popularity contest. At its best, it is a clear-eyed recognition of the world as it is and of the most powerful individuals and forces shaping that world—for better or for worse.

[Gusington]

^That portrait is piercing what's left of my soul.

[Pete Dero]

According to Russian state media I'll be asking for a favor shortly 


All of Europe is cutting wood en masse to get through the winter. Just like in the Middle Ages, Putin says.

Did you know that the Tiergarten Park in the center of Berlin has lost many trees in the last few months? This is because the inhabitants of the city secretly come to chop wood because otherwise their homes would no longer be heated. Russians learn such nonsense from the state media these days.

Tiergarten still has all its trees. A worker from the Berlin Mitte district office, who checked the news on the spot, did not see any felled trees. He tells this to Correctiv, an organization that does fact-checking. "By the way, there are hardly any buildings in Berlin that are still heated with wood."

As is often the case with Russian propaganda, the report from a credible source – in this case the Bloomberg news agency – is slightly tinkered with to fit the news seamlessly into the Russian media war. Bloomberg had only written that wood as a fuel is gaining popularity in Europe.

On the Russian talk shows, where the war is being stirred up, one speaker even knew that the animals will leave Europe. "For there will be no more forests, all the trees will be stoked." Russian critical journalist Mikhail Zigar, who has been writing as a columnist for Der Spiegel since fleeing Moscow, has a few more examples. The Europeans supposedly throw dried manure into their ovens because there is no more firewood. And soon we will run out of food.

Google translation from a local article.

This is meant to make Russians feel better about their own fate.

[Gusington]

When this is all over it will be a revelation to see Russians' faces when they learn the truth.