Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Jarhead0331]

I've been dead set on making Ukraine a non partisan issue.  But I'm hearing some peanut gallery comments from the right that don't really help the situation and only energize Russian propaganda.

When MacArthy says he's going to limit Ukraine spending when he's speaker, isn't that like playing poker and showing everyone your cards ?

I would agree that there might be limits to where we take the struggle in Ukraine, but keep your cards close to your chest and keep your mouth shut.

Sort of like Biden telling the Taliban the exact date and time of withdrawal from Afghanistan? Let's not go down this road of tit-for-tat. Both sides play to their bases. Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore. But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait....

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

[GDS_Starfury]

smh

[Jarhead0331]

IOTTCO

[UN Weapons Inspector]

Sort of like Biden telling the Taliban the exact date and time of withdrawal from Afghanistan? Let's not go down this road of tit-for-tat. Both sides play to their bases. Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore. But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait....

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

really curious :quote 'Both sides play to their bases.' (what sides?)  Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore.(How we can be so sure?) But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait.... Tricky line .I thought we are all friends here. I doubt religion is involved here , and  either the politics. Just free exchange of thought, something we should be praying and appreciating of on our knees every day we are alive.

and bickering? i thought this is an forum , with admittedly sometimes adolescent sense of humour.  Still , it does not make it less serious   

[Jarhead0331]

Sort of like Biden telling the Taliban the exact date and time of withdrawal from Afghanistan? Let's not go down this road of tit-for-tat. Both sides play to their bases. Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore. But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait....

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

really curious :quote 'Both sides play to their bases.' (what sides?)  Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore.(How we can be so sure?) But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait.... Tricky line .I thought we are all friends here. I doubt religion is involved here , and  either the politics. Just free exchange of thought, something we should be praying and appreciating of on our knees every day we are alive.

I'm not going to play word games with you. You've been lurking here long enough to know and follow the rules. There is nothing tricky about our policy against inflammatory topics involving religion and politics. it is quite simple with the use of common sense. We're all friends here, as long as you follow the rules.

Thanks.

[UN Weapons Inspector]

Ok

[bobarossa]

On a related and hopefully non-political note, why does Ukraine  insist on giving Russia  detailed damage assessment after missile attacks?   They tell everyone how much power generation capacity is damaged and what parts are urgently needed, etc.  I'd think they would want to keep that between themselves and their supporting countries.

I suppose e everything leaks quickly and they may be playing to the civilian audience.

[Jarhead0331]

On a related and hopefully non-political note, why does Ukraine  insist on giving Russia  detailed damage assessment after missile attacks?   They tell everyone how much power generation capacity is damaged and what parts are urgently needed, etc.  I'd think they would want to keep that between themselves and their supporting countries.

I suppose e everything leaks quickly and they may be playing to the civilian audience.

PR. I think the strategic benefit of divulging such information outweighs the strategic risk/consequence. There could also be some misinformation playing out, as well.

[Skoop]

I've been dead set on making Ukraine a non partisan issue.  But I'm hearing some peanut gallery comments from the right that don't really help the situation and only energize Russian propaganda.

When MacArthy says he's going to limit Ukraine spending when he's speaker, isn't that like playing poker and showing everyone your cards ?

I would agree that there might be limits to where we take the struggle in Ukraine, but keep your cards close to your chest and keep your mouth shut.

Sort of like Biden telling the Taliban the exact date and time of withdrawal from Afghanistan? Let's not go down this road of tit-for-tat. Both sides play to their bases. Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore. But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait....

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

I'm a conservative, now look how you've all ready labeled me as a pro Biden libtard because I'm a diehard Ukraine advocate see how it's already become partisan.  After Jan 6th and the growing anti Ukraine rhetoric, it has become alarming to me where the Republican Party is going, as this issue should remain non-partisan or bi-partisan.

Oh and I whole heartedly agree with you that Biden's Afghan pull out was a disaster, but Ukraine's not Afghanistan, far more at stake.

[Jarhead0331]

I've been dead set on making Ukraine a non partisan issue.  But I'm hearing some peanut gallery comments from the right that don't really help the situation and only energize Russian propaganda.

When MacArthy says he's going to limit Ukraine spending when he's speaker, isn't that like playing poker and showing everyone your cards ?

I would agree that there might be limits to where we take the struggle in Ukraine, but keep your cards close to your chest and keep your mouth shut.

Sort of like Biden telling the Taliban the exact date and time of withdrawal from Afghanistan? Let's not go down this road of tit-for-tat. Both sides play to their bases. Neither side acts in the best interests of the country anymore. But this is a discussion for R&P...oh wait....

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

I'm a conservative, now look how you've all ready labeled me as a pro Biden libtard because I'm a diehard Ukraine advocate see how it's already become partisan.  After Jan 6th and the growing anti Ukraine rhetoric, it has become alarming to me where the Republican Party is going, as this issue should remain non-partisan or bi-partisan.

Oh and I whole heartedly agree with you that Biden's Afghan pull out was a disaster, but Ukraine's not Afghanistan, far more at stake.

I did not label you as anything, Skoop. I was just making the point that it is a slippery slope to claim that the "right" or the "left" is guilty of certain conduct. These kinds of accusations go nowhere and do not belong in this forum for now.

Thanks.

[Skoop]

Cool, but you kind of did...read what you wrote.

[Crossroads]

As Putin and his henchmen would love nothing more than seeing the grogs of the world divided, here's a few observations from various articles.

WSJ editorial from a couple of days ago made a good point as what was and is at stake:

It's worth thinking about what the world would look like today if Mr. Putin had crushed Kyiv within days as he and U.S. intelligence services expected. Russian forces would now control nearly all of Ukraine and man the border of Poland and other frontline NATO states. If an insurgency broke out in Ukraine, Mr. Putin would be blaming those countries for aiding the "terrorists," whether they did or not, and threatening retaliation.

Moldova would have been next to fall to Russia, and one or more of the Baltic states would be in his sights. NATO would be divided over how to respond for fear of Mr. Putin's wrath, and forget about Finland and Sweden joining the alliance as they are currently doing. Germany would be especially conflicted, and all of Western Europe would be more vulnerable to Russia's energy blackmail.

The cost of shoring up NATO, with Russian tanks on its doorstep, would arguably have been even greater in the long run. U.S. credibility also would have suffered another blow, compounding the damage from the Afghanistan retreat. Critics who say helping Ukraine has hurt deterrence against China have it exactly wrong. China's Xi Jinping would have had greater cause to doubt U.S. resolve to defend Taiwan had the U.S. abandoned Ukraine.

Finally, burden sharing. While the US has more than carried her weight on military aid, especially as the "peace dividend" mentality has gone too far with some countries, it is good to see Europe carrying her weight and more on financial aid side of things. Military aid was not so lopsided either to what I feared.

As Putin is doubling down, this will not be over for a while. Divided we fall, si vis pace para bellum, and all that.

Wishing everyone a most Merry Christmas and Happy if solemn New Year

[Groggy]

A well done, succinct summary from Rob Lee and Michael Kofman. I think they put forth a good argument that Ukraine's victories this past fall in Kherson and Kharkiv were attributed to the Russian losses during the spring and summer battle for the Donbas.

In war ammunition never fails to be the greatest decider. Just like what Zelenskyy has been shouting about from the very beginning.

"Ammunition availability might be the single most important factor that determines the course of the war in 2023, and that will depend on foreign stockpiles and production. As it stands, the Russian military will struggle to restore offensive potential, but it can drag out a stubborn defense. Ukraine appears advantaged long term, but the longer the war goes on, the greater the uncertainty, and advantage is not predictive of outcomes."

https://twitter.com/LawDavF/status/1606412181968502786?t=Q8VsG0Jg7vKgZffiUIZxZA&s=19

[Jarhead0331]

Cool, but you kind of did...read what you wrote.

Ummmm...ok. I did. I still don't see it.

I'm sorry you interpreted it that way. I'd be upset if someone accused me of being a liberal too. 

[GDS_Starfury]

a rather interesting article about the coming year for russia by a russian concerning the problems beyond the front line.

https://en.rattibha.com/thread/1606249858926612485