I have been watching cable news for about an hour and just want to hear what you guys have to say about the riots that broke out a few hours ago after days of relatively peaceful protests. I know what I think. What do you think?
According to someone just a little more progressive and aware than I, using the word "riot" is racist, you racist.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 27, 2015, 07:49:19 PM
According to someone just a little more progressive and aware than I, using the word "riot" is racist, you racist.
;D
I've heard some parts of Baltimore are rough. My wife worked for a telecom company around there and used to fly over every few months. The cops warned her about a few areas, recommending to drive right through non stop. I guess typical city though, some parts great, some parts awful. I'd wager a lot of those hooligans were the usual scummy opportunistic riff-raff that comes over every time this type of thing happens. The only difference between them and Sharpton is that they've got the honesty to show they're crooks on CCTV and Facebook while pretends he's helping local communities.
I think I'm surprised it was peaceful for a few days. And watching people dance and swagger out of stores carrying loot....wait, what was this riot over again?
Did someone actually say that the word 'riot' is racist?
I have family near Baltimore and have been there 100+ times. And there are some parts that are total warzones. Surprise - that's ground zero for this. Another really freaky thing is seeing the Nation of Islam and 'The 300' men in these areas trying to keep the peace. Never seen that before. Have also seen clips of mothers grabbing their sons and beating the crap out of them for being involved...never seen that before either. And also saw some footage of police, after having crap thrown at them and their car, literally grabbing whoever they could and taking them down, hard.
Another particularly nauseating thing is the city government there saying one thing (declaring a curfew for tomorrow) but not telling the police in the streets that the curfew was not actually tonight but tomorrow night. It's total chaos down there...doesn't seem to be any communication between the gov't and the police/fire dept. or any kind of plan.
Not a big fan of rioters attacking firemen either.
It's just a precursor unfortunately. It has the potential to be a very tumulus summer and unfortunately I suspect there will be little leadership coming out of Washington regarding the issue or the crimes being committed.
I'm not surprised.
There are multiple inputs to make this as bad as it is.
First, the issue of Ferguson was never settled in the public's mind. It was IMHO inevitable that the unrest would resume as soon as the weather turned mildly favorable.
Second, there have been abuses of police power, however isolated (or not) the case may be. A blurb going on the news tonight said that Baltimore had recently paid out big bucks over the last five years for settlements. That's hardly an environment to calm unrest.
Third the city and state leadership was absent in this, and in the case of the local mayor, probably counter-productive.
Fourth, at a national level having a black president who hasn't attempted to change anything (other than to increase dependence on the dole) has, after six years, started to produce cognitive dissonance in the minority urban communities. The lack of leadership on top of this has exacerbated the situation.
I'm probably leaving some issues out, but the bottom line is this is hardly a surprise to me.
Tragic. For all sides. But predictable - and I'd have called it all but certain.
Sadly, I'm afraid we must get ready for a long summer of unrest unless the leadership - and local circumstances - change dramatically.
Quote from: Gusington on April 27, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Did someone actually say that the word 'riot' is racist?
Yup. It was your stereotypical smug, self-hating SJW white chick speaking in reference to Ferguson. The twit in question is Meredith Heller should you wish to torture yourself by reading her drivel.
From a very good friend of mine who lives in Baltimore
QuoteI don't even know what to say here - I am sitting in Oklahoma City and I am just so saddened by the behaviors at home in Baltimore. So many neighborhoods destroyed tonight and the results will push the businesses that supported the neighborhoods out. The mourners - the family and friends of the young man who died - are standing by, mouths agape, and wondering why their voices were ignored. Men and women who stood by those neighborhoods got to watch as a community center was burned down after all of their hard work. And tonight, many of us who might have understood the anger are now really wondering what's next?
Any sympathy for the dead and his family will now wane because looters took the memory and stained it with the soot and ash of burning buildings that helped sustain the people that burned it. The idea of advancing issues in equality and to promote an environment free from brutality will now take a back seat for all to the memories of burning community resources - and when the focus should have been on fixing what went wrong in the back of a police transport, we are now hearing about a Senior Center ablaze - attached to a Baptist Church. You can be angry. You can fight the system. but if you choose to fight wrong by turning against your own support, then perhaps you might no longer be deserving of my sympathy and support.
And as I listen to the press reports from hundreds of miles away, I leave you with this - I hope that tomorrow and in the coming weeks, I hope that the leaders of this community in Baltimore continues to call for peace, but more importantly, I hope that those leaders begin to call for arrests. The 'carrots' are failing and while some might argue that the 'stick' brought us here, no one can show me that the behavior here can be contained any other way.
(https://scontent-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11188252_10153287277312372_2005514699106005077_n.jpg?oh=15ce11877ad3b5a8d4d5448ffd14941d&oe=55D87C48)
It's the looters that make ke the most nauseous. Maybe looking up Meredith Heller will push me over the edge and vomit on my phone.
Quote from: Bison on April 27, 2015, 10:13:47 PM
It's just a precursor unfortunately. It has the potential to be a very tumulus summer and unfortunately I suspect there will be little leadership coming out of Washington regarding the issue or the crimes being committed.
Oh yeah, just wait until the first big heat wave. :o BOOM!
At least one mother knows what to do about the situation. O0
The news here in the UK say that Baltimore gangs are targeting police and their families. Have you heard about these assassination plans? I think that won't do anything to resolve things peacefully..... :idiot2:
I've heard the reports here too. They're taking them seriously.
I'm still struggling to figure out if any of these "leaders" can screw things up any further. It's awful.
Quote from: Gusington on April 28, 2015, 06:51:24 AM
It's the looters that make ke the most nauseous. Maybe looking up Meredith Heller will push me over the edge and vomit on my phone.
"Looters" is also racist. How can you live with yourself?
robot is a pretty racist term,
I'm pretty sure after seeing a lot of news on this, that the mayor of Baltimore is an unmitigated idiot and shouldn't be running a lemonade stand, let alone the city of Baltimore.
From ABC News:
QuoteNumerous fires were reported overnight and Baltimore police reported people throwing cinder blocks at fire engines as firefighters worked to extinguish the flames.
WTF? :idiot2:
Quote from: bbmike on April 28, 2015, 11:53:32 AM
From ABC News:
QuoteNumerous fires were reported overnight and Baltimore police reported people throwing cinder blocks at fire engines as firefighters worked to extinguish the flames.
WTF? :idiot2:
Look at it this way......even if they burn their neighborhoods down, they know the government will be there with FEMA trailers, $2000 Mastercards and free cell phones......
Baltimore City Council President Apologies... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/04/28/baltimore-council-prez-apologizes-to-rioters.html)to Rioters :o They are not thugs, just "misdirected youths" :idiot2:
Where are Bunk & Jimmy when you need them?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.guim.co.uk%2Fstatic%2Fw-620%2Fh--%2Fq-95%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2008%2F9%2F23%2F1222156858769%2Fmcnultyb.jpg&hash=0c03a490f202fba031540da09e6d43f7931cf7e3)
oh, there they are!
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F0uzbmCWGHF8%2Fhqdefault.jpg&hash=73dc263e93ad608db5b0359d00b30e95f3dcf48e)
Quote from: steve58 on April 28, 2015, 12:25:33 PM
Baltimore City Council President Apologies... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/04/28/baltimore-council-prez-apologizes-to-rioters.html)to Rioters :o They are not thugs, just "misdirected youths" :idiot2:
The Baltimore "leadership" seems to be almost non-existent. Or even supportive of the rioting.
Sorry for the racist term I used. :P
QuoteAn analysis of social media traffic in downtown Baltimore Monday has unearthed striking connections to the protests in Ferguson, Mo. last year, according to a leading data mining firm that shared its findings exclusively with Fox News.
The firm, which asked to remain anonymous because of its government work, found between 20 and 50 social media accounts in Baltimore that were also tied to the peak period of violence in Ferguson. While further analysis is being conducted on the data, it suggests the presence of "professional protesters" or anarchists taking advantage of Freddie Gray's death to incite more violence.
Further in the article
QuoteOne account, which also tracked the recent union protests in New York City as well as other disturbances, tweeted photos of Gray's funeral and used language that seemed to anticipate violence in Baltimore.
.
source: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/04/28/social-media-analysis-suggests-links-between-baltimore-and-ferguson-violence/
Heh. Glad someone has a sense of humor in the middle of this insanity.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/baltimore-riots-watch-michael-jackson-5594887
Quote from: Nefaro on April 28, 2015, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: steve58 on April 28, 2015, 12:25:33 PM
Baltimore City Council President Apologies... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/04/28/baltimore-council-prez-apologizes-to-rioters.html)to Rioters :o They are not thugs, just "misdirected youths" :idiot2:
The Baltimore "leadership" seems to be almost non-existent. Or even supportive of the rioting.
Sorry for the racist term I used. :P
Bad! Bad man! (and apparently "thugs" is now racist as well)
http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/tonight-show-drummer-calling-rioters-thugs-is-code-for-ners/ (http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/tonight-show-drummer-calling-rioters-thugs-is-code-for-ners/)
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on April 28, 2015, 05:34:47 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on April 28, 2015, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: steve58 on April 28, 2015, 12:25:33 PM
Baltimore City Council President Apologies... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/04/28/baltimore-council-prez-apologizes-to-rioters.html)to Rioters :o They are not thugs, just "misdirected youths" :idiot2:
The Baltimore "leadership" seems to be almost non-existent. Or even supportive of the rioting.
Sorry for the racist term I used. :P
Bad! Bad man! (and apparently "thugs" is now racist as well)
http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/tonight-show-drummer-calling-rioters-thugs-is-code-for-ners/ (http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/27/tonight-show-drummer-calling-rioters-thugs-is-code-for-ners/)
No, if Obama says it (http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/politics/obama-baltimore-violent-protests/) then it must be ok.
That mother is a hero. What is needed is 1 million more mothers like that.
I agree that the Mayor of Baltimore is acting like a deer in headlights.
I unfortunately also agree with Steelie...to an extent. I have read and seen a lot of footage of regular people trying to keep control in those streets in Baltimore, including a black Vietnam vet who put himself between the rioters and the police lines. Am I still allowed to use the word 'black?'
Also - Obama is such a fraud. Never has a US President had such potential to make good, do something to heal, help a terrible situation...and totally squandered it. Way to step up your game, Mr. President. Not.
Quote from: Gusington on April 28, 2015, 07:35:37 PM
That mother is a hero. What is needed is 1 million more mothers like that.
I agree that the Mayor of Baltimore is acting like a deer in headlights.
I unfortunately also agree with Steelie...to an extent. I have read and seen a lot of footage of regular people trying to keep control in those streets in Baltimore, including a black Vietnam vet who put himself between the rioters and the police lines. Am I still allowed to use the word 'black?'
Also - Obama is such a fraud. Never has a US President had such potential to make good, do something to heal, help a terrible situation...and totally squandered it. Way to step up your game, Mr. President. Not.
My sarcasm was in full swing. There are plenty of folks from all spectrum's who are appalled both at the rioting and at the police action that sparked it off. It's the people who take advantage of the chaos in order to steal, burn and harm that I disdain, along with the enablers and excuse makers. Policing in our country
has to change, but when the common man sees cities burning and rioters burning down their town, the focus becomes public safety and in the end, works against the kind of change that needs to happen.
And a CNN anchor is blaming military vets for the violence in Baltimore :o
QuoteWhile conducting an interview with Democratic Maryland Representative Elijiah Cummings, CNN host Brooke Baldwin questioned whether the violence in Baltimore had something to do with the amount of military veterans in the police department.
"Another thing that has to be done here, is we've really got to look at our police department," Cummings began.
"But in what sense?" Baldwin asked. "We talk about training, we talk about having officers — I was talking to the city councilman here last week. He said, 'Brooke, these people have to live in the communities... or there's a lack of emotional investment.'"
"And a lot of these young people — I've been talking about this so much. A lot of young people — and I love our nation's veterans, but some of them are coming back from war, they don't know the communities, and they are ready to do battle."
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/28/cnns-brooke-baldwin-blames-military-veterans-for-baltimore-riots-video/
Brooke is typical of teleprompter readers that are hawt but have zero content between the ears.
Agreed on Brooke Baldwin. Shut up and smile.
I find it humorous that anyone is surprised by what is happening in the streets or who they are attempting to divert and level the blame on. The media and left-wing politicians have long despised the police and the military, so I'm not sure why anyone would think any different. I'm also not sure that I agree we have a police issue in this country. I think we have a personal accountability issue and a huge problem with portraying everyone as a victim and not responsible for their own actions problem. I think we have an extremist left-wing problem and a whole lot of cowards who just take it because it's "the natural evolution of society." Bullshit. It's the forced evolution of society, but cowardly nation takes it.
They have the mom on the morning national news right now (no idea which channel, it was on when I passed by a moment ago). Then the news, of course, showed the footage of her beating the snot out of her kid.
And then it hit me. If this was an Anglo woman beating her kid, there would be OutrageTM and AngerTM and there would be calls of her being an unfit mom and probably talk of assault charges and court/jail time. But because she's not Anglo, this makes it okay? I dunno, maybe it's just me.
Quote from: Bison on April 29, 2015, 07:43:42 AM
I find it humorous that anyone is surprised by what is happening in the streets or who they are attempting to divert and level the blame on. The media and left-wing politicians have long despised the police and the military, so I'm not sure why anyone would think any different. I'm also not sure that I agree we have a police issue in this country. I think we have a personal accountability issue and a huge problem with portraying everyone as a victim and not responsible for their own actions problem. I think we have an extremist left-wing problem and a whole lot of cowards who just take it because it's "the natural evolution of society." Bullshit. It's the forced evolution of society, but cowardly nation takes it.
There is still the small issue of discovering exactly how a guy in a paddy wagon managed to sever his spine on the way to the clink. I have heard a couple of reports on TV of "rough rides" occasionally awarded by the Baltimore cops as a bonus to the free ride downtown. There *might* be a reason to look into this.
Absolutely no excuse for violence in the streets, but let us not forget that there may be some 'splaining to do.
I agree LB. The young man's injuries and death need to be investigated, but I'm sure the Baltimore PD have an IG and Maryland has an Attorney general's office. They should be doing an investigation into the circumstances and have findings that determine the cause of injury and death. If there is malfeasance on the part of officers then proper actions to include criminal prosecution should be taken. My issue is that police are under incredible pressure right now for political reasons and the 24 hour media are exacerbating and enflaming the angst. Either we are a land of laws or not. There should be a federal investigation into groups that are reportedly going from location to location and organizing and facilitating lawless and crimanls actions.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on April 29, 2015, 07:53:30 AM
And then it hit me. If this was an Anglo woman beating her kid, there would be OutrageTM and AngerTM and there would be calls of her being an unfit mom and probably talk of assault charges and court/jail time. But because she's not Anglo, this makes it okay? I dunno, maybe it's just me.
I think that any mom, thumping the bejeezus out of her rioting kid, would get a free pass. Be they black, white, or a news reporter.
Quote from: Centurion40 on April 29, 2015, 08:52:13 AM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on April 29, 2015, 07:53:30 AM
And then it hit me. If this was an Anglo woman beating her kid, there would be OutrageTM and AngerTM and there would be calls of her being an unfit mom and probably talk of assault charges and court/jail time. But because she's not Anglo, this makes it okay? I dunno, maybe it's just me.
I think that any mom, thumping the bejeezus out of her rioting kid, would get a free pass. Be they black, white, or a news reporter.
I would like to think this as well.
^ Me, three. But I'm talking full-on beat-down mode, like she was in.
I'm not saying the kid didn't deserve it...he was suffering much more embarrassment than he was injury. Or that ANY kid doesn't deserve it...they sure as hell would. I just wondered if there's a perceived difference, there.
There is going to be police department malfeasance until the end of time, its human nature. Its a tough job that takes its toll over time. There is no perfect end state to shoot for, until police are replaced by unemotional robots. The notion of rioting or making national stories out of isolated cases is absurd, because they will never end. You can only prosecute the police who cross the line between law enforcer and criminal. In addition, it is clear that nothing useful was learned by govt officials from the Ferguson riots.
The greatest concern of mine is that there is no end-game here. The core issue here is not the police (policing is merely symptom), but the cultural disintegration, chronic poverty, and epidemic violence that grips poor black communities. As long as this "Black Lives Matter" movement remains a politically correct movement about police, nothing will change. As a matter of fact, things will only get worse. I don't need to drive down to Ferguson to know this community (which was already on pace to becoming a ghetto) is being fast tracked to ghetto status. In ten years, Ferguson will be just another war zone in north St. Louis County, full of drugs and bombed out buildings and the "normal" black murders.
I am still drawn back to that grandmother in North County that was gunned down in gang crossfire while walking her grandchildren down the street, just one week before Mike Brown committed robbery and picked a fight with a cop.
Swatter, there has been over $22 Trillion spend since the '60 in the US to fight poverty. But it hasn't put a dent in it. It hasn't been a lack of money but the disintegration of culture, ethics and the family structure that needs to be fixed.
Quote from: OJsDad on April 29, 2015, 05:01:24 PM
Swatter, there has been over $22 Trillion spend since the '60 in the US to fight poverty. But it hasn't put a dent in it. It hasn't been a lack of money but the disintegration of culture, ethics and the family structure that needs to be fixed.
Well, Daniel Patrick Moynihan (a Democrat, no less) noted
in 1965QuoteThe steady expansion of welfare programs can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States.
Quote from: OJsDad on April 29, 2015, 05:01:24 PM
Swatter, there has been over $22 Trillion spend since the '60 in the US to fight poverty. But it hasn't put a dent in it. It hasn't been a lack of money but the disintegration of culture, ethics and the family structure that needs to be fixed.
Exactly. Couldn't agree more.
^How the hell do you fix a disintegration of culture, ethics and family structure that's been going on for 50+ years??
Quote from: Gusington on April 29, 2015, 08:06:00 PM
^How the hell do you fix a disintegration of culture, ethics and family structure that's been going on for 50+ years??
Stop subsidizing single women to have more children.
Give parents school choice (voucher system).
That would be a good start.
^Those are my lines.
One thing for sure, nothing will happen if the subject is politically taboo. Democrats don't want to talk about it because it targets their base with harsh criticism. Republicans don't talk about it because there is a 100% chance they will be called a racist. It is a no-win situation politically. The media is much the same way. Oh well, my opinion means nothing. The people in charge of the media and our political leaders are a bunch of racial cowards. I don't much like ex-Attorney General Holder, but he was right about that.
Quote from: LongBlade on April 29, 2015, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: Gusington on April 29, 2015, 08:06:00 PM
^How the hell do you fix a disintegration of culture, ethics and family structure that's been going on for 50+ years??
Stop subsidizing single women to have more children.
Give parents school choice (voucher system).
That would be a good start.
And properly treat those with ADHD & mental health issues.
(https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/17989_10203937554108963_3741175178903066727_n.jpg?oh=9001e71d770476c5a20014a8e65d97d8&oe=5599FB07)
Quote from: Bison on April 29, 2015, 08:37:03 AM
I agree LB. The young man's injuries and death need to be investigated, but I'm sure the Baltimore PD have an IG and Maryland has an Attorney general's office. They should be doing an investigation into the circumstances and have findings that determine the cause of injury and death. If there is malfeasance on the part of officers then proper actions to include criminal prosecution should be taken. My issue is that police are under incredible pressure right now for political reasons and the 24 hour media are exacerbating and enflaming the angst. Either we are a land of laws or not. There should be a federal investigation into groups that are reportedly going from location to location and organizing and facilitating lawless and crimanls actions.
According to preliminary reports his neck was broken when he was thrown into the wagon. Not sure how this could have been missed with the cops checking on him a number of times during his ride to the station though.
http://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-waits-answers-black-mans-death-police-custody-115721337.html
Breaking news:
QuoteThe six Baltimore police officers involved in the April 12 arrest of Freddie Gray now face a barrage of charges including assault, manslaughter and second-degree murder.
State prosecutor Marilyn Mosby announced the charges in a surprise news conference on Friday.
Mosby said that officers illegally arrested Gray and that they also failed to render proper aid after placing him inside of a police van. Gray was inside of the police van for approximately 30 minutes. When police arrived at a jail processing center, Gray was found unresponsive. He was taken to the hospital and died on April 19.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/01/six-baltimore-police-officers-charged-in-freddie-grays-death/
Shit's about to get real, yo
I didn't even know this was a thing
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-grays-injury-and-the-police-rough-ride.html
Quote from: mirth on May 01, 2015, 11:24:40 AM
I didn't even know this was a thing
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-grays-injury-and-the-police-rough-ride.html
Yeah, you've got to read past the first few paras to get that nugget, but that was what was being whispered for the last week or so in Baltimore. Looks like there may be substance to it.
And appropriate music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMH-q3xwqt8
Quote from: LongBlade on May 01, 2015, 12:00:45 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 01, 2015, 11:24:40 AM
I didn't even know this was a thing
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-grays-injury-and-the-police-rough-ride.html
Yeah, you've got to read past the first few paras to get that nugget, but that was what was being whispered for the last week or so in Baltimore. Looks like there may be substance to it.
The report says his injuries were like those you might see in a car accident. Considering the police wagon wasn't in an accident then it does seem like the ride was a bit rough.
They had a similar thing in Toronto called the "Cherry Hill Ride"; Cherry Hill being a notoriously bumpy, hilly and full of turns road. I'm told that they'd toss a lippy suspect in the back of a paddy wagon with a half-dozen (or so) tire rims, then go for a speedy ride. I'm told the one could get really roughed-up getting bounced around with all the tire rims.
The prosecutors charges here are very, very strange.
First, there was no Grand Jury empaneled and no Grand Jury was used. This is quite unusual.
Second, the prosecutor examined the written evidence for a very short period of time.
Third, the prosecutor did not interview any of the witnesses directly.
Last, the prosecutor's husband is on the Baltimore City Council from the district where Mr. Gray lived. An amazing conflict of interest given the circumstances.
If I was the prosecutor, given the political nature of the case and that I was married to a city counsel member from that district I would have recused myself. I certainly would not have eliminated the entire Grand Jury process.
My source on this is both the Wall Street Journal and Associated Press. I cannot ever remember charges being brought this quickly in a homicide case. It usually takes an absolute minimum of 30 days, and that is an open & shut case with forensic evidence.
I hope that this is not a mistake by the Prosecutor that will come back badly in terms of a blown court case, acquittals all around, and further stupid riots.
Airboy, your last sentence is what has me concerned. I'm having visions of Rodney King Part II.
If everything played out like the prosecutor says, then BPD has a lot more issues than I thought, given the number of opportunities and individuals that could have put a stop to this.
it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.
Thanks Brant. I did not know what race each of the 6 are. The thing is though, that the three black officers will be accused of being Uncle Tom's.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 02, 2015, 12:26:07 PM
it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.
I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.
Quote from: OJsDad on May 02, 2015, 12:28:31 PM
Thanks Brant. I did not know what race each of the 6 are. The thing is though, that the three black officers will be accused of being Uncle Tom's.
Or, in the case of one of them, an Aunt Jemima.
Im just glad that obama has settled race relations so well.
(https://scontent-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11182130_993798643972768_8892216060714204184_n.jpg?oh=97fe935dd2f141f19ca0815b67dd9721&oe=55E0A121)
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 02, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 02, 2015, 12:26:07 PM
it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.
I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.
All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing. I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council. I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.
But again, I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about police accountability or prosecuting police misconduct. As the ancient romans said, who guards the guardians? From Wikipedia: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? is a Latin phrase found in the work of the Roman poet Juvenal from his Satires (Satire VI, lines 347–8). It is literally translated as "Who will guard the guards themselves?", though is also known by variant translations.
The original context deals with the problem of ensuring marital fidelity, though it is now commonly used more generally to refer to the problem of controlling the actions of persons in positions of power, an issue discussed by Plato in The Republic. It is not clear whether the phrase was written by Juvenal, or whether the passage in which it appears was interpolated into his works.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on May 02, 2015, 01:39:21 PM
(https://scontent-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11182130_993798643972768_8892216060714204184_n.jpg?oh=97fe935dd2f141f19ca0815b67dd9721&oe=55E0A121)
LOL ;D
Its a no-win situation if I've ever seen one.
In Ferguson, the prosecutor went exceptionally slow, methodically reviewing the evidence. Result = rioting. In Baltimore we have a quick evaluation of evidence and the immediate filing of charges. While this might result in less rioting in the short term, the rioting will be more intense later on if the defendants are not convicted on the serious charges.
I think the only lesson you can take from this is that you can't appease rioters.
Quote from: airboy on May 02, 2015, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 02, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 02, 2015, 12:26:07 PM
it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.
I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.
All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing. I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council. I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.
I completely agree. My comments are more directed towards the incidents of police misbehavior and civil unrest we are seeing overall rather than just the Baltimore situation. I'm shocked to see charges filed already and more than a little uneasy with a murder indictment against one of the officers. I agree it's a no-win situation....if we think the riots are bad now, wait until juries start passing out "not guilty" verdicts on the major charges. I believe a crime(s) occurred here, but a rush to justice serves no one...not the victim, not the officers and not the community.
That meme with Anderson Cooper is priceless. I watched him interview the kid and the mom and it was a lot less awkward than I would have believed.
Alan Dershowitz has weighed in and support's Airboy's reading:
Quote"There's no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder under the facts as we now know them," Dershowitz said.
"You might say that conceivably there's a case for manslaughter. Plainly nobody wanted this guy to die. Nobody set out to kill him. Nobody intentionally murdered him."
Four officers, including Goodson Jr., face involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault charges.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/02/alan-dershowitz-lays-into-freddie-gray-prosecutor-this-is-a-show-trial-video/
Quote from: LongBlade on May 02, 2015, 05:13:02 PM
Alan Dershowitz has weighed in and support's Airboy's reading:
Quote"There's no plausible, hypothetical, conceivable case for murder under the facts as we now know them," Dershowitz said.
"You might say that conceivably there's a case for manslaughter. Plainly nobody wanted this guy to die. Nobody set out to kill him. Nobody intentionally murdered him."
Four officers, including Goodson Jr., face involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault charges.
source: http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/02/alan-dershowitz-lays-into-freddie-gray-prosecutor-this-is-a-show-trial-video/
The murder charge reeks of being political. I noticed they also charged the same officer with manslaughter as a fail-safe. I expect the murder charge to be dropped as the case proceeds. I do think there is a legitimate shot at convictions for the officers charged with manslaughter. Between failure to secure him as required by their own regulations and the joy ride that may have taken place bouncing him off walls, reckless indifference seems a factor to me.
No matter what these officers are screwed and their careers are over.
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 02, 2015, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: airboy on May 02, 2015, 02:28:50 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 02, 2015, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 02, 2015, 12:26:07 PM
it will be interesting for them painting this as a racially-motivated incident when 3 of the 6 officers charged are black.
I think the relevant color here is "blue". There are folks who think police officers can do no wrong and folks who think they can do no right. The truth is always somewhere in between. There are reasons why we have constitutional protections and reasons why there are procedures to follow in an arrest. The "us" vs. "them" mentality is as prevalent within our police forces as it is in street gangs. Worse still is the "no snitching" credo which both sides adhere to in regards to their own. If there is any good to come from all this, perhaps it will be law enforcement being held more accountable for the power they weld. If they disregard the rights of the citizenry they interact with, if they confiscate or destroy the cameras filming them, if they beat handcuffed prisoners or let the back of their vehicles do the damage, the moral line between them and outlaw gangs becomes blurred, which is not to anyone's benefit, much less their own.
All true, but ignoring the Grand Jury process, having a minimal review of evidence, and no interviews of witnesses while bringing charges in record time (the incident occurred on April 12 - so the indictment came in 18 days) does not give me much faith that the Prosecutor knows what they are doing. I hope she does, because I'm certain the police officers will have competent legal council. I'm naturally pessimistic - but this situation seems like a train wreck.
I completely agree. My comments are more directed towards the incidents of police misbehavior and civil unrest we are seeing overall rather than just the Baltimore situation. I'm shocked to see charges filed already and more than a little uneasy with a murder indictment against one of the officers. I agree it's a no-win situation....if we think the riots are bad now, wait until juries start passing out "not guilty" verdicts on the major charges. I believe a crime(s) occurred here, but a rush to justice serves no one...not the victim, not the officers and not the community.
+1 Steelie, you are very much the voice of reason. If juries - having heard the evidence, make findings of not guilty, and you have a flare of riots, then is the situation no more than lynch mob 'justice'?
You just knew it wasn't going to stay peaceful and quiet in Baltimore, right?
Quote
Baltimore police shot a man Monday in the same area where massive riots broke out last week over the death of Freddie Gray.
It's unclear what prompted the shooting. A Fox News crew witnessed a young black male running from police before he was shot.
It's not known whether the unidentified man was armed. A gun was reportedly found nearby on a sidewalk.
A crowd quickly formed around the man, who was seen on a stretcher as he was being loaded into an ambulance. His condition is unknown.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/04/man-shot-multiple-times-by-baltimore-police/
...so wait, no, a black man was
not shot (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2015/05/04/breaking-another-black-male-shot-in-baltimore-n1994264).
Quote from: steve58 on May 04, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
You just knew it wasn't going to stay peaceful and quiet in Baltimore, right?
Quote
Baltimore police shot a man Monday in the same area where massive riots broke out last week over the death of Freddie Gray.
It's unclear what prompted the shooting. A Fox News crew witnessed a young black male running from police before he was shot.
It's not known whether the unidentified man was armed. A gun was reportedly found nearby on a sidewalk.
A crowd quickly formed around the man, who was seen on a stretcher as he was being loaded into an ambulance. His condition is unknown.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/04/man-shot-multiple-times-by-baltimore-police/
...so wait, no, a black man was not shot (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/danieldoherty/2015/05/04/breaking-another-black-male-shot-in-baltimore-n1994264).
At least it was a prompt retraction with an apology. Wish that all news sources did that when they are wrong.
Apparently many of the protesters in Baltimore were promised salaries of $5k/month. Funny thing though, they haven't been paid what was allegedly promised so now they're protesting the people who hired them to protest.
QuoteACORN's successor group in Missouri has been paying protesters $5,000 a month to generate civil unrest in Ferguson, the troubled St. Louis suburb where black youth Michael Brown was killed by a white police officer last August.
We know this because some of the protesters haven't been paid and, now, they are demanding what they were promised. They held a sit-in at the offices of Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment (MORE) and posted a demand letter online.
MORE is the rebranded Missouri branch of the former Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) which filed for bankruptcy in late 2010. That ACORN state chapter reconstituted itself in December 2009 as MORE under orders from ACORN's national headquarters. President Obama used to work for ACORN and he represented it in court as a lawyer. (See my previous article on MORE.)
source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/matthew-vadum/ferguson-rent-a-mobs-exposed/
Quote from: LongBlade on May 19, 2015, 11:09:24 PM
Apparently many of the protesters in Baltimore were promised salaries of $5k/month. Funny thing though, they haven't been paid what was allegedly promised so now they're protesting the people who hired them to protest.
QuoteACORN's successor group in Missouri has been paying protesters $5,000 a month to generate civil unrest in Ferguson, the troubled St. Louis suburb where black youth Michael Brown was killed by a white police officer last August.
We know this because some of the protesters haven't been paid and, now, they are demanding what they were promised. They held a sit-in at the offices of Missourians Organizing for Reform and Empowerment (MORE) and posted a demand letter online.
MORE is the rebranded Missouri branch of the former Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) which filed for bankruptcy in late 2010. That ACORN state chapter reconstituted itself in December 2009 as MORE under orders from ACORN's national headquarters. President Obama used to work for ACORN and he represented it in court as a lawyer. (See my previous article on MORE.)
source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/matthew-vadum/ferguson-rent-a-mobs-exposed/
I've seen numerous articles about all these paid protestors being used in recent years.
Talk about wagging the dog.
Where all the money coming from to pay them?
Quote from: OJsDad on May 20, 2015, 07:17:52 AM
Where all the money coming from to pay them?
The article claims it's through George Soros, who funnels it through the reincarnation of ACORN. You'll want to read the article for more details.
Oh yes, Soros.....the guy so conveniently ignored by the left while they scream about the Koch brothers money influencing politics. :idiot2:
'MORE'...I get it. Not funny, though.
Officer found not guilty in Freddie Gray death (http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/23/us/freddie-gray-trial-officer-edward-nero/).
...let the rioting begin resume.