Russia's War Against Ukraine

[JasonPratt]

Today I discovered Task and Purpose (whom I've linked for a few articles in the past), has a YT channel!

(It is of course entirely possible that others have been posting vids from them upthread and I missed it)

So here's an ep from a few days ago on Russia's weird ongoing armor 'doctrine' (for want of a better word). Though it's really more about a focus on why Vuhledar is so important for both sides, as a basis for illustrating Russia's group teamwork problems.

[JasonPratt]

The comment thread on that video is well worth thumbing through, too. For example:

Hello, I'm from Poland and one of our retired colonels who was trained in Soviet drill has a theory. The general in charge of this front was ordered to attack Wuhledar. What could he do? three things. Make a wide-ranging attack with the majority of his forces. Maybe he would take the city, maybe not. And then  he would lose a large part of his own strength and be dismissed for it. The second way out is modest offensive and reconnaissance activities. He would have spared his forces, but the general staff would have considered that he had not carried out the attack, that he had broken orders = resignation. Two bad exits. So instead the general attacks with a small part of his force to be able to report that he is attacking, and the HQ can confirm this by seeing that he is taking casualties. The general is promoted for exemplary execution of orders.

[GDS_Starfury]

so strange that Red Storm Rising or Hacketts WW3 would become worst case scenarios.

[DetCord]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

[Jarhead0331]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

Welcome home, DetCord. I'm sorry for your losses. As you very well know, it is the ugly universal truth of war.  When you feel up to it and ready, I encourage you to share your experiences with the group. Your direct, first hand experience will be very valuable for us all.

[Tripoli]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

Welcome home.  I'm glad you are back.

[JasonPratt]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

Welcome home, DetCord. I'm sorry for your losses. As you very well know, it is the ugly universal truth of war.  When you feel up to it and ready, I encourage you to share your experiences with the group. Your direct, first hand experience will be very valuable for us all.

Hear hear!

[W8taminute]

Good to have you back DetCord.

[steve58]

A few more Migs for Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovak-government-send-mig-29-fighter-jets-ukraine-pm-2023-03-17/

[Groggy]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

Welcome home. Thank you for helping defend liberal democracy against authoritarianism. Big respect.
Do you have any plans to write about your experiences in Ukraine?

[Jarhead0331]

Me and the boys got back in November. Some of us that is.

Welcome home. Thank you for helping defend liberal democracy against authoritarianism. Big respect.
Do you have any plans to write about your experiences in Ukraine?

Is Ukraine a "liberal democracy"? Asking for a friend. 

[Groggy]

Is Ukraine a "liberal democracy"? Asking for a friend. 

What a shame your friend fails to understand that Ukraine is bleeding on behalf of liberal democracy.

[Jarhead0331]

Is Ukraine a "liberal democracy"? Asking for a friend. 

What a shame your friend fails to understand that Ukraine is bleeding on behalf of liberal democracy.

I mean, I'll tell him of his failure, but it was a serious question.

[Jarhead0331]

Framing the war as one of 'democracy versus authoritarianism' is a tactic used by the US and Europe to raise the stakes of the war and to generate political and moral support. However, in my friend's view, regarding the war in Ukraine as a battle between democracy and authoritarianism is misleading, misguided and somewhat naive. In truth, Ukrainian blood is more probably being spilled to preserve the post-WWII international legal order. Whether one thinks this is actually good for democracy or not, I suppose, is subjective. 

[MengJiao]

Framing the war as one of 'democracy versus authoritarianism' is a tactic used by the US and Europe to raise the stakes of the war and to generate political and moral support. However, in my friend's view, regarding the war in Ukraine as a battle between democracy and authoritarianism is misleading, misguided and somewhat naive. In truth, Ukrainian blood is more probably being spilled to preserve the post-WWII international legal order. Whether one thinks this is actually good for democracy or not, I suppose, is subjective. 

  Aren't there lots of different ways to parse motivations in this war (or probably any war)? Some Ukrainians may be fighting for nationalistic or other ideological reasons that don't have much to do with more general concepts like liberal democracy.  Overall the Ukrainians might be fighting to preserve Ukraine (as a set of communities).  Some might be fighting because they are angry and aggrieved and want revenge.
Then there are many other motivations -- to deter Russia from pushing to control more territory for example...or indeed to
uphold the implied post-WWII standards that strongly discourage attacking neighboring sovereign entities except in self-defense (which the Russians keep bringing up as if the assault on Ukraine didn't look like...well a massive attack on a sovereign entity).
Defending liberal democracy probably isn't a primary motivation -- I think it's more the integrity of sovereign territories that causes the defensive reflex in the West.  The sequential take-overs of Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland and so on by Germany, and swathes of Finland, Moldavia and Poland by Russia at the beginning of WWII that provides the basic fear that drives the West, maybe even unconsciously