Topic change -- now checking winter track marks... what was this? Bobcat?

[JasonPratt]

C40, yeah we don't have to worry as much about the kind of snowpocalypse y'all had to deal with last year. {shiver}

Though we might have to deal with whatever made this print earlier this year when we took some glancing ice-snow blows from the nastiness up north.

Just how big does a coyote have to get before it counts as a wolf...? That thing was basically the size of something from The Howling (keeping in mind the heel would be up by my knee).

[Centurion40]

I swear they get that big around here, and they kill people too.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coyotes-kill-toronto-singer-in-cape-breton-1.779304

[Staggerwing]

You might have Coywolves- coyote-wolf hybrids on the loose:

http://www.coywolf.org/coywolf-basic-info/



^

Map of contemporary Canis (coyotes and wolves) in North America focusing around northeastern Coyote/Coywolf range. Note: map reflects approximate locations of locations of where various Canis can be found. Dashed lines (e.g., southern Ontario) include probable zone of hybridization between northeastern Coyotes and Eastern Wolves and western Coyotes and northeastern Coyotes. Question marks and dashed line at south edge of northeastern coyote range reflects uncertainty in mid-Atlantic United States of where northeastern Coyote range ends and southern wave of western Coyote expansion continues. Boundaries should not be considered static as there is hybridization between canids at the edges of their respective ranges.

[JasonPratt]

More likely coydogs, but still. Even for a Shepherd hybrid, that's getting pumpy.

(Edited to add: duh, you were probably replying to C40.  ::) )

Of course it might be a wild dog anyway -- we don't have any tame dogs this size in the neighborhood -- but I know for a fact there's a pack of coyotes living within a mile of the house; just drive down the road in front of the house in the middle of the night, out away from the edge of town into the fields, and you can hear them singing.  8)

[JasonPratt]

Note: just did a scale double-check using my current boot, and yep that track is pushing 4", maybe more since the criteria measure from the claw tips.

Which however brings up the odd point that none of the tracks featured claw tips -- I had noticed that at the time and meant to check the morphology of the print later to see if this was some kind of bobcat instead, but somehow never got around to it. Project for this morning?

[JasonPratt]

That is 100% not a coyote track, or dog track either. I mean, the jpg there is, but my photo isn't.

(Updated to add photo for ease of reference. Crap, my old browser at the office doesn't like imageshack...)

[LongBlade]

That is 100% not a coyote track, or dog track either. I mean, the jpg there is, but my photo isn't.

(Updated to add photo for ease of reference. Crap, my old browser at the office doesn't like imageshack...)

At the risk of derailing this thread with cryptozoology (rather than boobs) I will toss out that that during some show or another discussing Bigfoot et al I picked up some trivia about footprints in the snow. Snow has a tendency to expand the size of a footprint over time. How much I'm not sure I ever knew. However, before we conclude 100% that this is some wolf-mastadon hybrid, I would suggest you dig a bit into the snow expansion dealio and cross reference that against how old you think the footprint is. That said, if you walked the trail the day before and the footprint wasn't there, then I would conclude it's probably the exact size rather than artificially expanded by time.

[JasonPratt]

LB, yes I know, and a point worth considering for morphology.

Those tracks were, at the time of photo, laid down the night before, though after the precipitation had finished as can be seen. This happened in late February, so I'm not in a position to tell anymore what the difference in time after precipitation was compared to the time I took the photo, which was mid-morning (I probably wasn't even awake when it finished falling), but definitely within 12 hours, most of which were dark, all of which were still below zero. Highly overcast that day (as can be seen from the relative color which I can testify from memory is accurate; also I remember the overcast), so no chance of melting from a side effect of albedo (where sunlight bounces off the white snow/ice and doesn't convert to heat energy, but reaaaallly bright sunlight might push some conversion over the freezing point, including into estivation directly into steam. Two semesters of meteorology in college. ;) )

Under the precipitation is fairly light-colored concrete, namely the sidewalk in front of our house. Heat creep from under the precip through the ground from being near the house is not likely in this case.

Particulate as you can see is very fine, and laid down in a non-fluffy fashion; or not there anyway (I have photos of fluffy snow elsewhere from the same few minutes including high drift). Underneath is about an inch of ice. I wish I had taken photos of my own footprints afterward for comparison, but my admittedly vague recollection is that (at 208 lbs + including winter clothes) I didn't impress much more, or as much, as the animal. The relative weight spread across more area from my larger feet would affect that, so that doesn't mean the animal weighed as much as me, but it's fairly heavy for its size.

I have a more distant photo showing more samples of the tracks, possibly featuring two animals. From that photo, the heel pad doesn't always look nicely round like that, but it sure happens often. I'll post that in a minute for more comparative data.

[JasonPratt]

Okay, this was taken a few seconds earlier; I photo'd my foot afterward on one of the clearer prints for scale.

Clicking once on the attachment should make the forum engine spread it out to 'full size', allowing a closer look at the track variants. Obviously a four-footed animal, or rather two of them unless it looped back around to trot the same direction again. (I was joking from the size about it being a 'werewolf' track earlier.) One track set may be from a smaller animal; and might even be from a different animal? (Based on the occasional difference in heel pad shape.)

[JasonPratt]

It doesn't seem to be canid/lupine, and doesn't seem to be feline. A cougar was hit on the road about a dozen miles north-northeast of that photo a few years ago, so cougars are entirely possibly in the area. But this doesn't fit cougar tracks, or so the internet tells me. ;) These are from Purdue University in Indiana.



We have red foxes around occasionally, too, but not fox.





Common North America wild feline tracks. Cougar/mountain lion on the bottom. Nope.




Coyote and dog tracks. Of course, dog breeding might have changed the pad of the foot and the shape of the toes while reducing or eliminating claw marks. Haven't checked that yet.

We have skunks but despite their relatively close relation to cats...



Nopey-nope nope.

Coon and possum are just as different again.

[JasonPratt]

Lynx is getting closer, especially since the pad shape might conceivably vary to circular on a regular basis (or so I guess from the example) but aside from not having any around here (bobcat yes, lynx I don't think so), still some clear differences.



Only really meant to get the lynx photo there, sorry; but it includes woodchuck which I had forgotten to consider. Still nope.

Lynx kind of seems closest at the moment? If the animal was running, that might make some difference in toe marks, reduce the heel pad to a frequent circle, show a few faint claw marks perhaps as the claws poke out from various physical stresses?

[LongBlade]

If we're talking within the last 12 hours and sub-zero temps in my professional opinion that is a BAPP - Big Ass Paw Print.

If it were running you should see more depth at the tip of its "toes." Beyond that my tracking skills get a bit fuzzy, despite the fact that I used to watch that Canadian show with the tracker who would try to catch teams. And having stayed frequently at several Holiday Inns over the years.

[panzerde]

Loup Garou. Has to be.

Or Mothman.

[JasonPratt]

Lynx is still the closest thing I can find in size (bobcat would be smaller, though of course it's also a lynx, but its prints look much more like a normal cat's) and verrrry general shapes. A lynx's dragging fur probably wouldn't affect that kind of particulate (I guess?) so its lack wouldn't count against it.

But the shapes are still weird. I'm not convinced it's a lynx, though it looks a lot more feline than canine.

[LongBlade]

Hmmm.

I'm sensing some information overload with you, JP.

Let's got back to the basics.

Look at the footprint. The space between the primary pad and the "fingers" is fairly narrow. The "fingers" themselves look more thumb-shaped (fat, elongated).

The shape of the pad is difficult for me to make out as the color contrast isn't the greatest. However, it sorta looks like a squished pyramid.

Based on what I'm seeing (and granted, I'm no pro and I'm sure there's plenty of room for discussion) I *think* I see prints that match the dog's front paw in this image:



After you examine the distance between toes and pad, size, and shape what do you see?