Author Topic: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?  (Read 45777 times)

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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2014, 10:48:03 AM »
you assume theyll actually fly them
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Offline Windigo

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2014, 11:14:50 AM »
Let someone else pay for the bleeding edge of technology.

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My wife insists that it says dyslexia but what does she know.

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2014, 11:44:41 AM »
After doing some digging it turns out that all modern aitcraft have these limitations and the 35s arent the worst.  Just something the media can latch onto..  I'll link the info when I get home.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

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Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2014, 12:36:48 PM »
After doing some digging it turns out that all modern aitcraft have these limitations and the 35s arent the worst.  Just something the media can latch onto..  I'll link the info when I get home.

The 35s are among the worst then. And no one's been talking about repainting fuel bowsers or giving them shades with other aircraft.

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/12/the-tale-of-the-f-35-and-hot-jet-fuel/

http://www.dailytech.com/F35+Cant+Fly+w+Hot+Fuel+Air+Force+Has+to+Paint+Trucks+Bright+White/article36985.htm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102253195

There's more than a little backtracking being done by the AF.
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Offline Steelgrave

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2014, 12:42:02 PM »
Having lived ten minutes from Luke AFB for six years, I can guarantee you it's gonna get hot  O0

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2014, 12:55:40 PM »
Luke you say....

Luke AFB changes refueling truck color, mitigates F-35 shutdowns
06 Dec 2014 Staff Sgt. Luther Mitchell Jr., 56th Fighter Wing Public Affairs

"..."We are taking proactive measures to mitigate any possible aircraft shutdowns due to high fuel temperatures in the future."

The squadron adopted the idea after it was first implemented at Edwards Air Force Base, California. [Wot? No story earlier? Wot?]

In the summer months at Luke AFB, temperatures can reach beyond 110 degrees. Painting the tanks white now will help prevent fuel stored in the tanks from over-heating.

"This is the short-term goal to cool the fuel for the F-35; however, the long-term fix is to have parking shades for the refuelers," Resch said.

The white paint is special because it is a solar polyurethane enamel that reflects the heat of the sun's rays. Interestingly, after dropping off the first truck to be painted, the 56th LRS learned it is not the color that reflects the heat.

"The painting process is a two-part process, and the second part is the reflective process," said Master Sgt. Joseph Maurin, the 56th LRS fuels distribution NCO in charge. "The painter said it did not have to be a white color, so we are going to send one of the four vehicles to get painted green, if possible. We will then compare temperatures between the green and white trucks."

Luke AFBs refuelers are also deployable and a white fuel truck would stick out like a sore thumb down range. The 56th LRS is hopeful that the tanks can be painted green and still keep fuel temperatures down.

The 56th LRS has been approved to paint four trucks and it takes about a week to complete, at a cost of $3,900 per truck."

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/555558/luke-afb-changes-refueling-truck-color-mitigates-f-35-shutdowns.aspx

The Tale Of The F-35 And Hot Jet Fuel
10 Dec 2014 Colin Clark

"...“This is not an F-35 issue; there are no special restrictions on the F-35 related to fuel temperature. The F-35 uses the same fuel as other military aircraft. It can fly under the same temperature conditions as any other advanced military aircraft,” said Joe DellaVedova, program spokesman, in an email yesterday evening.

The folks at Luke say they are testing the new paint jobs to avoid problems, according to the AETC story: “‘It ensures the F-35 is able to meet its sortie requirements,’ said Chief Master Sgt. Ralph Resch, 56th LRS fuels manager. ‘We are taking proactive measures to mitigate any possible aircraft shutdowns due to high fuel temperatures in the future.'”

“Painting fuel trucks to reduce fuel temperature and improve aircraft performance will benefit legacy aircraft as well as F-35. There is no fuel temperature upper limitation on F-35 operations that would prevent sorties, and no sorties have been cancelled as a result of fuel temperature,” Kyra Hawn, deputy spokesman at the JPO, said in an email this morning. “Daily F-35 operations at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, and Luke Air Force Base have been unaffected by hot environment or fuel temperature.”

The plane is now undergoing climate tests: heat, cold, rain, snow, ice etc. A lab test imposing temperatures in excess of 130 degrees was just completed “and the aircraft performed exceptionally well based on preliminary information collected,” Hawn wrote. Full climate results will be ready in the spring of 2015."

and heres a full list of jet fuel specs.  page 10 is what you want to look at I think.
http://www.exxonmobil.com/AviationGlobal/Files/WorldJetFuelSpecifications2005.pdf
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2014, 01:47:09 PM »
I wouldn't take the AF press releases at face value. The "proactive measures" statement is a bit of backtracking.

And this:

Quote
The squadron adopted the idea after it was first implemented at Edwards Air Force Base, California. [Wot? No story earlier? Wot?]

So? F-35s are based at Edwards too. And guess what? It gets pretty warm there too.

Any examples of these types of "proactive measures" being take for any other modern jet fighters? I haven't seen any, so if you know of some I'd love to know about them.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2014, 01:55:32 PM »
from sources I cant link Id say that similar issues exist with F-16s and F-18s concerning fuel temps and operating conditions.  keep in mind that the F-35 has already passed its required environmental testing.  so its cleared to operate alongside current aircraft.  at this point any little thing is going to be blown up into an outrageous scandal even though its not.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2014, 01:57:59 PM »
keep in mind that the F-35 has already passed its required environmental testing.  so its cleared to operate alongside current aircraft.

umm... the environmental testing is ongoing. From your post above:

Quote
The plane is now undergoing climate tests: heat, cold, rain, snow, ice etc. A lab test imposing temperatures in excess of 130 degrees was just completed “and the aircraft performed exceptionally well based on preliminary information collected,” Hawn wrote. Full climate results will be ready in the spring of 2015."
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2014, 02:00:53 PM »
Also Luke is a major training base for the F-16. If the 16s have similar fuel temp issues, why weren't they painting the bowsers white before the 35s were around?
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2014, 02:01:22 PM »
those tests are ongoing for airframes we currently operate.  testing never ends.  they have however qualified the 35 for operational service.
dont be obtuse sunshine.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2014, 02:02:35 PM »
Also Luke is a major training base for the F-16. If the 16s have similar fuel temp issues, why weren't they painting the bowsers white before the 35s were around?

maybe because the F-16s have been bought and paid for for 20 years and the 35 is brand new and costs more then most African countries GDP.   ;)
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2014, 02:04:52 PM »
those tests are ongoing for airframes we currently operate.  testing never ends.  they have however qualified the 35 for operational service.
dont be obtuse sunshine.

Quoting from the AF press release you posted is being obtuse? I think you need a break from the sun yourself.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline mirth

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2014, 02:08:12 PM »
Also Luke is a major training base for the F-16. If the 16s have similar fuel temp issues, why weren't they painting the bowsers white before the 35s were around?

maybe because the F-16s have been bought and paid for for 20 years and the 35 is brand new and costs more then most African countries GDP.   ;)

So the fuel temp curtails the sortie rate of the F-16 in a way similar to the 35 and the AF has never bothered to address it for the 16. You're going with that? Seek shelter, the Florida sun is melting your brain :P
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: F35 - Bad idea made worse over time?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2014, 02:32:38 PM »
I've come to terms with the fact that latent syphilis doesn't let you mind see the big picture here.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.