I just thought I should say something about this in a thread since the old ones have run off the bottom of the main CW page.
Although whenever I try to type something coherent, all my brain hears is squeeeee, squeeeeeeeeeee.
Maybe I'll pass the time by trying to get DoW1 working on my Win8 machine...
I've been spending the time playing Dawn of War 2 for the first time. Damn that game is excellent.
Quote from: Gusington on August 10, 2013, 10:35:47 PM
I've been spending the time playing Dawn of War 2 for the first time. Damn that game is excellent.
I CANNOT get DOW2 to run on my WIN8 system. It hates GFWL games...so frustrating.
Sorry man. Is that a known issue? That sucks.
I've also been playing DoW1 and DoW2 - just to get in the mood as it were.
Hm. I got DoW2 and its first sequel (I don't have Retribution yet, the game with the multiple faction campaigns) to run on Win8, but I don't recall how. GFWL was indeed a major problem at first.
DoW1 has problems running on Win8, primarily due to not being able to enter the activation codes; but I learned there's a way to legitimately hack around that by adding the codes directly to a file somewhere through text-editing it.
Come to think of it, I have a rather impressive Android-based Space Hulk clone around here somewhere that I picked up after I heard the original development announcement. I forget what it's called but I can run it and (sometimes) other Android programs through Oracle VM VirtualBox on my Win8 machine.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 10, 2013, 10:44:09 PM
Quote from: Gusington on August 10, 2013, 10:35:47 PM
I've been spending the time playing Dawn of War 2 for the first time. Damn that game is excellent.
It hates GFWL games...
Who doesn't? :P
I have a moratorium on game pre-purchases (too many of games turn out to not be fully baked at release and end up failing or at a discount shortly after launch), but I couldn't stop myself on this one. Between this and Shadowrun Returns, I should have my fill of SF turn-based goodness for awhile!
Bumping the clock down Sunday night...
I am ashamed to say I've spent the day not in playing DoW1 (or even trying to get it running on my Win8 system), but in playing Etherlords2.
Is it just me who is a bit worried this could get old a bit quickly? It looks good, and I will almost certainly buy it, but I am worried that 15 missions and no character progression may leave the game... a bit repetitive? I didn't play the boardgame loads - am I missing something here? So many good games are coming out or have come out this month - I think this one may have to go on the back burner.
The original SH computer game had no character progression either, and I didn't think it got old quickly. It isn't an RPG, that's all. (DoW1 didn't always have character progression in its campaigns, either.)
You do have a point about it being repetitive, but people who like the game play it for the variations of repetitive. We like the atmosphere and the tactical puzzles with randomized elements. Five missions on the same map with the same squad and even the same starting strategy by the player, tend not to play out the same way. Despite the game featuring Terminator Space Marines, the absolute pinnacle of SM fighters and supposedly very rare, in practice it's easy for the Termies to die a lot, in glorious sacrificial stands to complete the mission and allow their brothers to continue on (and that sort of thing), so RPGing would almost be kind of a waste of time.
I will note however that the "Templar" SH-clone for the Android system does have some character progression. :)
On my wishlist... EU IV knocked it out of my shopping cart.... Looking forward to hearing feedback.
PE
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 12, 2013, 08:34:39 AM
The original SH computer game had no character progression either, and I didn't think it got old quickly. It isn't an RPG, that's all. (DoW1 didn't always have character progression in its campaigns, either.)
You do have a point about it being repetitive, but people who like the game play it for the variations of repetitive. We like the atmosphere and the tactical puzzles with randomized elements. Five missions on the same map with the same squad and even the same starting strategy by the player, tend not to play out the same way. Despite the game featuring Terminator Space Marines, the absolute pinnacle of SM fighters and supposedly very rare, in practice it's easy for the Termies to die a lot, in glorious sacrificial stands to complete the mission and allow their brothers to continue on (and that sort of thing), so RPGing would almost be kind of a waste of time.
I will note however that the "Templar" SH-clone for the Android system does have some character progression. :)
Templar Assault RPG? Looks worth a purchase for the old S3 at £1.89! With regards to Space Hulk itself, where does the variety come from apart from Hulk layout and number of enemies? Are there any different enemy or different aims / objectives?
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 12, 2013, 03:44:21 AM
Is it just me who is a bit worried this could get old a bit quickly? It looks good, and I will almost certainly buy it, but I am worried that 15 missions and no character progression may leave the game... a bit repetitive? I didn't play the boardgame loads - am I missing something here? So many good games are coming out or have come out this month - I think this one may have to go on the back burner.
This is also a concern for me.
Quote from: Nefaro on August 12, 2013, 02:06:24 PM
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 12, 2013, 03:44:21 AM
Is it just me who is a bit worried this could get old a bit quickly? It looks good, and I will almost certainly buy it, but I am worried that 15 missions and no character progression may leave the game... a bit repetitive? I didn't play the boardgame loads - am I missing something here? So many good games are coming out or have come out this month - I think this one may have to go on the back burner.
This is also a concern for me.
The developers keep stressing how difficult the missions are, which to me sounds like even more tedium. I think I'm going to hold off and wait for a demo and a sale.
I fear it's something I'll play for a very short time and then move on. Probably wouldn't even get to the end.
I've really been judging new purchases on how much I might play them long-term since I already have so many unplayed ones to catch up on.
No continuity? Or does the continuity just last for the 15 battles and then that's it?
QuoteProbably wouldn't even get to the end.
You are weak...the Inquisition will judge you...the Emperor will not protect you...
If they're reproducing the "Sin of Damnation" campaign, my guess (at the moment) is that continuity can best be described as "loose". i.e. there's a story that makes some sense stringing together a group of increasingly difficult missions.
Ross, yep Templar Assault RPG (which notably has "RPG" in its title, now that I recall). I had completely forgotten it existed. Back around Father's Day I was testing out various Android games on my Win8 emulator to try to find something for my brother for his (real) Android pad. He wanted something kind of like the Slitherine "Commander" WW2 game, which he had just finished on his PSP, but different -- at the time, there weren't any grand strategy games on the droid that weren't more like Risk. (And he doesn't want to play things on his own computer because he doesn't want the kids thinking the computer is there to play games on.) His birthday is coming up soon, so I'll need to relook and see what's out there.
Anyway, I ran across Templar and dl'd the demo for my own interest. :)
So in warming up for Space Hulk I continue to play through DoW II. Got through the first series of missions, now on to the second act and the difficulty has been ramped up a bit. But what a great game. An RTS with mad lootz!
I liked DoW 2 very much too.
The narration is cool and the gameplay is fun and like the tabletop game, albeit smaller in size.
I liked DoW 1 very much as well, maybe even more than 2, cause it scratched the Command and Conquer classic itch for me. There aren't too many RTS games anymore where basebuilding is still a significant part of the core concept.
And I like base building!
I've got DoW I as well but haven't played it yet. It feels good to get his DoW segment of gaming oit of my system though. Wish I played DoW II sooner. Can't wait to try out some of the vehicles.
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 07:13:37 AM
I've got DoW I as well but haven't played it yet. It feels good to get his DoW segment of gaming oit of my system though. Wish I played DoW II sooner. Can't wait to try out some of the vehicles.
There are a lot of great mods for DOW I. Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you details regarding my favorites.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 13, 2013, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 07:13:37 AM
I've got DoW I as well but haven't played it yet. It feels good to get his DoW segment of gaming oit of my system though. Wish I played DoW II sooner. Can't wait to try out some of the vehicles.
There are a lot of great mods for DOW I. Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you details regarding my favorites.
ooo, what is there? i didnt realise there was a big mod community
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 13, 2013, 09:53:39 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 13, 2013, 08:40:22 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 07:13:37 AM
I've got DoW I as well but haven't played it yet. It feels good to get his DoW segment of gaming oit of my system though. Wish I played DoW II sooner. Can't wait to try out some of the vehicles.
There are a lot of great mods for DOW I. Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you details regarding my favorites.
ooo, what is there? i didnt realise there was a big mod community
Absolutely HUGE modding community...at least there was...
My favorite DoW mod of all time is known as the Firestorm Over Kronus mod or "FoK." It added a tremendous amount of models, units and content. Last time I looked, the mod was for Soulstorm only, but work was still progressing very slowly for a conversion over to DC.
Definitely interested. What else is there?
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 10:38:28 AM
Definitely interested. What else is there?
The only one I've bothered putting in was a Zoom Mod so that you can zoom out a bit further. Always felt claustrophobic with the vanilla zoom-out limitation.
I'm wondering at what AI difficulty level does the AI start getting artificial 'cheat' bonuses? It seems like Normal AI setting can crank out more units than a player, but perhaps I just suck at DoWI.
No, normal AI doesn't get any cheats, it just processes "clicks" faster and more efficiently than humans usually can. I don't think harder settings increase the AI's unit cap either, just rates of resources.
Another strong mod is DoWPro (for SS and for DC, but for skirmish and mp, not the campaigns). I think work on it finally died off before the Sisters of Battle could be tweaked to the modder's satisfaction -- in the last one or two versions he just turned them off so they couldn't be used. But I was pretty happy with the results on the last version with the SoBs.
The mod doesn't do anything horribly innovative, it's just a careful balance mod with a ton of maps plus another popular mod for AI scripting. (It also includes the zoom-out mod.) Not real sure how well it works with Steam, but for a long time it was the preferred mp mod.
FoK has a lot more niftiness to it. Another interesting mod, unfinished but well along the last time I checked a few years ago, ports in the final main race, the Tyrannids.
I don't have links to Relic's forum on my new computer, so I can't send people to where the best mods were gathered together. :(
I always grabbed my nods from Relic News : http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdisplay.php?47-Relic-Game-Mods
Stuff there for DoW 1&2 and CoH 1&2.
I didn't realize how intense and deep DoW II is. I am in love.
Just completed two missions that were giving me trouble yesterday and the game leaves me more exhausted than any other.
I might actually put Space Hulk on the back burner just so I can complete DoW II before Rome 2 arrives :)
It looks like the Relic forums have drastically changed. They appear to be a shell of their former glory.
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 08:03:46 PM
I didn't realize how intense and deep DoW II is. I am in love.
Just completed two missions that were giving me trouble yesterday and the game leaves me more exhausted than any other.
I might actually put Space Hulk on the back burner just so I can complete DoW II before Rome 2 arrives :)
Wait until you play the Chaos Rising expansion. IMHO it's the best of the series.
Yeah I remember your review. So far, as far as detail, DoW II blows away the detail in Space Marine, which was my WH40K entry point.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 14, 2013, 09:24:11 AM
Quote from: Gusington on August 13, 2013, 08:03:46 PM
I didn't realize how intense and deep DoW II is. I am in love.
Just completed two missions that were giving me trouble yesterday and the game leaves me more exhausted than any other.
I might actually put Space Hulk on the back burner just so I can complete DoW II before Rome 2 arrives :)
Wait until you play the Chaos Rising expansion. IMHO it's the best of the series.
All true - i have a Chaos Rising campaign on the go and its very addictive.
Dakka Dakka Dakka!
One of my favorite DoW II bits from the last few plays was figuring things out with the help of Bawb on Steam chat...lime how to pause the damned thing :)
lol - Gus, if you could have seen me frantically fumbling around the screen you would have laughed....and I found it by pure luck.........or at least, by process of elimination ;)
^Shhh you're supposed to say how obvious and clearly marked it was etc etc...
I'm thinking of leaving my computer on all day attached to the internet, so it'll be ready when I come home.
...that couldn't possibly go wrong in any fashion, could it?
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 14, 2013, 09:23:29 PM
I'm thinking of leaving my computer on all day attached to the internet, so it'll be ready when I come home.
...that couldn't possibly go wrong in any fashion, could it?
I often have to restart the Steam client before one of my pre-ordered games shows up for install. Does that count?
Doesn't matter, I completely forgot to turn on my computer anyway. :(
FOUR HOURS TO GO! FOUR HOURS TO GO! (or thereabouts) THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THIS GAME WILL LIVE UP TO MY HYPE!! ;D
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 15, 2013, 08:32:21 AM
FOUR HOURS TO GO! FOUR HOURS TO GO! (or thereabouts) THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THIS GAME WILL LIVE UP TO MY HYPE!! ;D
I agree. I have my doubts on this one...seems to have gone through development a bit too quickly. There is so much they can do with the lore of this universe and so many ways to make the game seriously immersive. I'm afraid its going to be really just like playing a board game, except without all the great social interaction.
Anyway, I'm doing the review for GH, so stay tuned...
Did you change your avatar just for that post?
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
They are vetern space marines in Terminator armor walking down tight, confined, darkly lit corridors within one of the most hostile environments in the known galaxy. Did the previewer expect them to move like ballerinas?
As far as gun jamming, perhaps it is an issue to take up with the serfs who were responsible for blessing the machine spirits...
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
Well, yes, that's the board game (and the previous computer game from back in the days of Doom).
That their guns jam so frequently makes no sense in the larger WH40K lore, but that's a major part of the boardgame design.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 15, 2013, 10:41:49 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
They are vetern space marines in Terminator armor walking down tight, confined, darkly lit corridors within one of the most hostile environments in the known galaxy. Did the previewer expect them to move like ballerinas?
As far as gun jamming, perhaps it is an issue to take up with the serfs who were responsible for blessing the machine spirits...
have you got it yet?
I have it, but I'm at work until at least 2000 EST.
no, ummmm chesty cough coming up or anything? Acute stomach pain?
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
That's poor form. Previews aren't supposed to discuss negatives because the code is still being worked on - sometimes to fix stuff like that.
Hey they said not me. Anyway waiting to hear informed opinion here. I remember Skyrim didn't get great previews either and that was certainly wrong.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 15, 2013, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 15, 2013, 10:29:24 AM
PC Gamer mag had a pre-view that wasn't entirely complementary. It said the Space Marines move at the pace of continental drift and their guns jam constantly. Overall the pre-view was very positive however.
That's poor form. Previews aren't supposed to discuss negatives because the code is still being worked on - sometimes to fix stuff like that.
Depending on what they meant by moving at a glacial pace, that isn't actually something to be fixed in code, that's part of the game rules. The jamming definitely is. But maybe they meant the guns jam more often than what ought to be the average. In the old semi-FPS version, jamming could be reduced significantly by picking shots carefully (if repeatedly) through mouse clicking like a semi-automatic weapon, since jamming seems to be a factor of how long the bolter has been continuously shooting. So I feel like my impression of jamming rates might be significantly lower than what the tabletop rules expected.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FGrogHeads%2F2013-08-15_00001_zpse0bd7e11.jpg&hash=7b25584d6c48cfb168f7e3c85a014783f8df358b)
This game is so completely unplayable due to all the bugs.
I can't manage to complete a single game without it getting stuck somewhere along due to a gamestopping bug.
:-\
You're playing right now??
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2013, 01:31:48 PM
You're playing right now??
I "played" some minutes ago.
It's out already in case you didn't know.
I also saw another Groghead playing it.
I preordered it. So what's bugged?
Got it (thanks to an old wargames buddy - much to my delight, I just went onto steam and found it as a gift!).
Installed it and just completed the first mission with no problems.
I'll do some more and report back :-)
Is it fun?
So, it's gonna be another bug hunt, sir?
;)
I hope so! With a dearth of WH40K movies, I have my Alien blue rays ready to go.
Seems OK so far, although I'm having a bit of a problem with move/turn commands, but I think the problem is with me and not the game. It is very like the board game - and the missions (so far) are very familiar.
No manifestations of any bugs up to now (other than the 'stealers, that is). I like what little I've seen of it.
Quote from: Tpek on August 15, 2013, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2013, 01:31:48 PM
You're playing right now??
I "played" some minutes ago.
It's out already in case you didn't know.
I also saw another Groghead playing it.
I bought it and played it through the intro scenario. Maybe 20 minutes.
Didn't notice any huge bugs.
Fun? Too early to tell. My initial reaction was that this was OK, but I kept hoping for more toys. Probably will unlock stuff like flamers in coming games.
Here I'm blowing away a Genestealer with my storm bolter.
I'll let JH do the honors of giving further impressions. I see potential. I liked it. Wasn't immediately addicted but I am going back for more.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2F2013-08-15_00002_zps4fa3055f.jpg&hash=5240cce7f24ff5031825c175669d81053d6a2f48)
So it's just me who is unlucky enough to consistently encounter them?
Quote from: Tpek on August 15, 2013, 03:19:26 PM
So it's just me who is unlucky enough to consistently encounter them?
I may not have played long enough to uncover any. Will let you know if I see something.
Artistically, the thing I do not like is that the Space Hulk looks too damn clean. For a derelict ship that has been adrift for SIX HUNDRED YEARS, you'd expect everything to be a little less...you know...polished.
...and yes, you can all derelict, my balls.
No demo?
Just finished mission 3 with no bugs. Weapons so far include assault cannon, heavy flamer and thunder hammer.
Downloading right now...
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 15, 2013, 03:22:30 PM
...and yes, you can all derelict, my balls.
I don't know what it means to derelict your balls but I want to try!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 15, 2013, 04:44:56 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 15, 2013, 03:22:30 PM
...and yes, you can all derelict, my balls.
I don't know what it means to derelict your balls but I want to try!
I guess you've never seen the movie Zoolander...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IRWMGjXuyVo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IRWMGjXuyVo)
Huw, aint you had enough trouble in that department already? Give yer goolies a rest me ol' mate.
You do NOT want to derelict anyones balls.
One 'bug' I've caught so far is that my desktop shortcut is just a blank white space. That's kind of annoying.
Yeah - mines the same Gus.
What the hell? I love me some cool desktop shortcuts.
Ughhh the tip to save a few action point to unjam the bolters was a little late!
Total wipe on the first try
Con
Aside from some minor sound and graphic glitches, no bugs on my play through the 2nd tutorial mission. Yes, the toys start unlocking quickly, but this is a methodical slow game. The movement and other instructions could stand to be a lot clearer ingame, which I suspect lends the impression of bugs. Undoing a movement order does not restore general command points for example (although that might actually be a bug).
To me the Hulk hallways look dirty and nasty and ruined inside, with trash all over the floor. Moreso than in the original computer adaptation anyway.
Sound effects are strangely not as tense as in the original computer game. Not sure why, but I suspect it comes down to:
1.) not as many (or any?) distant growls
and
2.) the turn-based nature naturally leeches visceral tension.
The shoulder-camera is purely graphical fluff and can be safely eliminated.
It is indeed Space Hulk. Some practical differences from the original computer adaptation but I don't know whether some of those are bugs or closer to codex (with differences due to which rule-set the games are using, whether fire always autokills 'stealers for example. In the original computer game, yes; here, not always.)
Downloading now. Hope to give it a try after dinner.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 15, 2013, 05:28:43 PMwhether fire always autokills 'stealers for example. In the original computer game, yes; here, not always.)
I've had storm bolters miss, but it was on Overwatch and several tiles away.
If anyone gets the time, how about some screen shots in the shot thread.....please.
This game is a direct boardgame conversion and it even has the option for timed Space Marine turns. I don't see anything yet that is different from the board game. This is not a twitch game and it can either be a slow paced game (without the timer) or you can ramp up the pressure by using the timer. A good chunk of the strategy is figuring out your initial lineup and what order your space marines will file in on the map and this is crucial. Place the flamer in a poor position and you just out positioned yourself out of the match at the very beginning. Its very easy to play and you can easily do a match in 30 minutes. The game is hard for the Space Marines as all it takes is for one critical guy to have his bolter jam and your whole plan is unhinged. Overall, I love the board game and so this buy was a no brainer for me and it has met all of my expectations. I haven't tried the multiplayer yet. I am hoping that DLC will add the ability to map your own maps and maybe add more chapters, weapons, and enemies beyond the scope of the board game.
Trey
I played for about a half hour. I love the over the shoulder camera...lends a lot of atmosphere. Normal difficulty was pretty unforgiving. Space Huk combined with DoW II will really satisfy that DoW itch in general, I think. No bugs that I could see either, other than poor text editing.
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2013, 08:19:04 PMNo bugs that I could see either, other than poor text editing.
like the name Gusblade?
I've played through all three tutorials, no bugs or problems. I found the play easy to grasp, and after wiping once in the first mission took only a single casualty across the three missions on normal difficulty. It's very atmospheric - gloomy and claustrophobic. The shoulder cam is a nice immersive touch, as well as the kill cams. It's graphically more appealing than I thought it'd be from the Steam screenshots.
The game feels like a board game. There's not a lot of room for poor placement of your Marines, or you'll simply be swamped by Genestealers. There's no doubt; this is true to the Space Hulk board game.
I doubt I'll play this obsessively, but for those evenings where I just don't have the mental energy for something more sophisticated, this will be a great, relaxing game.
Do you see yourself playing this in 6 months? How about playing it more than 3 times in the next 6 months (after the 'new car shine' wears off)?
I was just going to post something very similar to what panzerde did. I will certainly come back to it to play for a calming hour or so. And for more frenetic play I will go to DoW II, like I did tonight.
What's wrong with naming my avatar Gusblade in DoW II?
Gus the Impaler or maybe Gus the Doombringer sounds better.
DoomGus the Impaler
Seeing one weird bug where I had a heavy flamer that I was trying to back up a corridor. When I hit the redo button it placed him facing the wrong way but gave me back the correct number of CP and APs then when the turn started it the game placed him correctly. I even had it happen where he walked sideways out of the corridor?
Conrad
Quote from: Gusington on August 15, 2013, 08:19:04 PM
Space Huk combined with DoW II will really satisfy that DoW itch in general, I think. No bugs that I could see either, other than poor text editing.
Ohhh Sweet Irony!
:P
This sounds like a good Friday night beer game, to complement Poker Night at the Inventory.
You know, for those nights when Crusader Kings 2 is just a bit too....hard.
This has multiplayer? What, so one guy can be the marines while the other is the aliens?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 16, 2013, 02:40:30 AM
This has multiplayer? What, so one guy can be the marines while the other is the aliens?
yup
Multiplayer is over the internet or just hotseat mode? And again my initial question - there is no demo for this game, is that correct?
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/16/wot-i-think-space-hulk/#more-164789
"And that really sums this scrappy, boring adaptation up. A lack of care. It's about as bad as it could possibly be"
oh dear - i know only one persons opinion - but consider it panned
The RPS review is overly harsh. My review will be more balanced and less emotional.
Of course, the game's Steam store page has the "I really think they've nailed it – both the strategy and the feel, retaining what makes Space Hulk Space Hulk while convincingly turning it into a videogame, not a mere boardgame made from pixels" from the RPS preview, which Steam calls a review, and doesn't mention the review.
The game looks interesting, but I don't like what I'm hearing about guns jamming. That might be charming in a boardgame, but not if it's really random. "Oh, gun jam for 1 critical guy, most/all of your guys die with absolutely nothing you can do about it" doesn't sound like fun. If it's just something that can be prevented by storing action points or something similar, it's OK.
I'm actually sort of overcautious when it comes to these kind of potentially game killing things (as in: not actual bugs, but randomness that might mean you've wasted a significant amount of time on a mission as it arbitrarily causes you to fail). In DoW II, I spent over 30 hours on the game before I ran into a bug with some Eldar I had to kill where the campaign didn't continue afterwards. Even though I liked DoW II, I never got back to playing it. 30 hours to get back to a certain point seemed too tedious, as it wouldn't actually show me anything I had already seen, aside from minor various in missions and starting with a different path. The lack of a save function during missions also doesn't really help. Sometimes you can't spend 1.5 hours or so in a row on a game, which I needed in some scenarios due to my slow and methodical pace to avoid losses.
I guess in the case of this game, I'd only have to play one mission again, but still. A feature like random gun jamming seems like too much of a roll of the dice, more suitable for a boardgame than a PC game. Terminators "missing" when firing automatic weapons in such a confined space is not problematic as long as you think of it as a dice game, but the situation of misses followed by a jam mentioned in the RPS review might, as the reviewer stated, be interesting in a boardgame but I can imagine how it's highly frustrating on a PC. I prefer to have at least some influence on what happens.
The bugs the RPS reviewer encountered with even simple things like clipping are also not encouraging.
Quote from: Toonces on August 16, 2013, 12:55:32 AM
This sounds like a good Friday night beer game, to complement Poker Night at the Inventory.
You know, for those nights when Crusader Kings 2 is just a bit too....hard.
So you'll be playing it a lot then, eh?
Wow I need to read that RPS review. The one thing I learned so far in my short time playing it is if you have a choice begween using a Terminator's fist or his bolter, always use the bolter. I wish I had an image of me trying to take out a Genestealer by punching it, missing and then killed. Hilariously tragic end to that mission.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 16, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
The RPS review is overly harsh. My review will be more balanced and less emotional.
looking forward to it
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 16, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
The RPS review is overly harsh. My review will be more balanced and less emotional.
Bear in mind that Rab is crazy about Space Hulk; he absolutely loves it. He was certainly the right person to review the game.
Edit: Oh, just noticed that he says as much in the first paragraph. How about I read the whole thing before commenting further? :D
Quote from: Grimnirsson on August 16, 2013, 04:30:08 AM
Multiplayer is over the internet or just hotseat mode? And again my initial question - there is no demo for this game, is that correct?
I don't know about a demo, but I believe it offers both Hotseat and internet multiplay.
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 16, 2013, 06:09:51 AM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/16/wot-i-think-space-hulk/#more-164789
"And that really sums this scrappy, boring adaptation up. A lack of care. It's about as bad as it could possibly be"
oh dear - i know only one persons opinion - but consider it panned
Actually, I can see that perspective.
But I like it.
It is a very simple game for a PC game. The actions you take are limited. You may die several times before you figure out a decent approach to a level.
For all that I think it overcomes the sum of its parts. I like it. But it's not the kind of game I find myself playing for hours and hours and not notice the time. It's more of a win-two-levels-and-out game, or a killed-three-times-on-this-level-I'm-done-tonight game.
The animations help spruce up the game, but at its heart it's a simple turn-based game.
Can you save mid-mission?
Rab's review isn't encouraging. However, based on his words, it sounds to me like playing it multiplayer with someone you know will be quite alright. So that's what I'm hoping to do. Might pick it up on pay day next week. :)
having never played the board game i can imagine the drama he wants encapsulating with the misses and jams and the screaming in each others face - i just think thats the price you pay for playing a pc game and not a board game
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 16, 2013, 08:37:31 AM
Rab's review isn't encouraging. However, based on his words, it sounds to me like playing it multiplayer with someone you know will be quite alright. So that's what I'm hoping to do. Might pick it up on pay day next week. :)
if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 16, 2013, 08:39:26 AM
if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers
I'm waiting for an email from Bob but I'm strongly considering buying it this weekend. If I do, do you want to go in on a two-pack on Steam? Brings the price down to twenty squid.
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 16, 2013, 08:38:06 AM
having never played the board game i can imagine the drama he wants encapsulating with the misses and jams and the screaming in each others face - i just think thats the price you pay for playing a pc game and not a board game
+1 That was my thoughts as well reading this thread. I have Blood Bowl, the boardgame and really enjoy it playing FtF with others. I have the PC adaptation and it's nice to quickly pick up a game and play at any time, but the game play pales in comparison to live play. I haven't played the PC game vs another live opponent however so I may enjoy that as much as the boardgame (doubtful but I might).
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 16, 2013, 08:52:12 AM
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 16, 2013, 08:39:26 AM
if you can put down DOTA 2 long enough let me know if you do this, theres a Grogs Trophy somewhere to be fought over by you me and Bob and any other UK -ers
I'm waiting for an email from Bob but I'm strongly considering buying it this weekend. If I do, do you want to go in on a two-pack on Steam? Brings the price down to twenty squid.
count me in - bob has it - an ex-lover of his bought it for him
Quote from: tgb on August 16, 2013, 08:35:58 AM
Can you save mid-mission?
I haven't tried, but I think so. At one point I pulled up the main menu and noticed that it looked like I had the option to do so.
May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 16, 2013, 09:10:30 AM
May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.
Hmmm....I've always been wary of stuff like this. Surely the keys are intended for Australian players? If Valve ever have a reason to look at my account, isn't there a chance they may lock it if I've used one of these?
In reply to several notes above so far:
1.) Yes, the undo button is at least a bit bugged; I've had it not give back command points, too.
2.) My gun jamming experience is maybe five times in three missions (with replays, around ten plays total) so far, not all of which were fatal jams that unraveled my defense and ended the game in a loss (maybe twice). Jamming in my experience is like what would be expected in the boardgame, unusual but it happens, and can be offset by spare action or command points.
3.) Yes, the game has both internet and hotseat play. Not sure about LAN yet. Yes, the genestealer team can be played with the ruleset the computer uses.
For some more observations of my own:
I feel like the original computer games (including Vengeance of the Blood Angels) did a much better job of tying the missions together plotwise. In the first game there was a whole separate book to explain how the various missions related to each other, and while there could have been improvements the connections were much stronger than I'm seeing here so far. The old games did port in classic boardgame map setups, like this game does, but had a lot more maps.
I also found myself appreciating how brilliantly the old games (even the largely borked sequel/update) designed the computer conversions for keeping the player totally invested every moment. This isn't so much a fault of this game, which is simply an adaptation of the boardgame rules, but I do wish someone would also remake VotBA which deserved a cleaner release, or even the original SH computer game. As much as I loved playing SH last night, I couldn't help feeling like trying to load up VotBA and attempting to like it again (despite its clunkiness) or even loading the original SH in Dosbox (which I have installed on my old laptop). VotBA brought a lot more detail and immersion to the game than this version does (including Chaos Marines!)
Also, I didn't realize airlocks were an innovation of the computer game, and I miss them a lot now: before there were some doors the stealers couldn't get through which could be opened and closed by the Marines. Now there are only the two original door types, those which anyone can open and close (at the cost of a point) and those which only the Marines can open (at the cost of at least one point maybe a lot more) but not close again. But considering how much trouble it would be to turn around, close a door, and turn around again (or turn around, back through it, close and turn around), maybe that's just as well: now that I think of it, the mechanic works better in a pausable realtime game, and wouldn't work well on this one.
Having stealers preset on the map to pop out of hidden locations was a good idea, too, although admittedly hard to fairly implement in what amounts to a two-player game on repeatable maps (with the computer using the rules for the second player).
Adding a further comment to how much better the original SH comp game put the missions together, even though only in a separate book: the book features a lot more information about the historical situation, allowing new players to be immersed in the context of the lore. Not so much this game.
Replying to the RPS review:
1.) The lumbering terminator movement doesn't bother me, I find it immersive in a way, although its annoyance highlights a weakness in the original lore: nowadays, normal Space Marines would probably work as well or better because the extra armor on the Terminators counts for practically nothing (also this game dates from a time in the WH40K development when the Termies were also called Dreadnoughts, which sure isn't true anymore: Dreadnoughts are now much larger tanks with crippled Marines inside who cannot get out anymore.)
Still I agree that someone should have coded in an option to turn off movement animations.
2.1) I haven't had any problem recognizing doors yet, since they typically start off closed; and I can't imagine any tactical reason yet why someone would waste a ton of action/command points closing one for the brief moment a stealer would need to open it. (There wasn't any reason to do that in the SH-FPS game either, except for the airlocks which stealers couldn't open once sealed.)
2.2.) While the graphics might count as cluttered, that's part of the setting. They're dark, but I wouldn't call them muddy at all. Nor would I recommend bothering in the slightest about the shoulder-camera view. (I do wish the game could be played from the abstract overhead map with all the shoulder cameras on, somewhat similar to the old SH-FPS, but that would be a different kind of immersion.) I like the action shot closeups, but of course those aren't any use for tactical planning.
3.) I can't comment about the glitches he's talking about, as I haven't seen a single one of them yet, although I wonder if they're similar to glitches others have mentioned in this thread? If the glitches only appear on certain hardware, that might explain why the devs thought there was no problem and released it.
4.) Having the stealer value labeled during the SM turn seems like a bug, or a programming oversight, not a design choice. It should certainly be rectified.
5.) Oh if only there was some tool by which we could talk to opponents and taunt them by voice in the middle of games!--oh wait, there is. Otherwise, does the reviewer think all multiplayer computer games are boring when the other player is too far away to talk about the game with them? (Trying to control's one fate by rolling dice is admittedly something no game is ever going to quite simulate, even if they simulate rolling dice by clicking a button.)
6.) I found turning on the action camera helps a little with the lack of tension in the stealer charges.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 12:29:21 PM
(also this game dates from a time in the WH40K development when the Termies were also called Dreadnoughts, which sure isn't true anymore: Dreadnoughts are now much larger tanks with crippled Marines inside who cannot get out anymore.)
Nerd note: Terminator armor is still known as "tactical dreadnought" armor. This is to differentiate from the larger Dreadnoughts. I don't think Terminators were ever actually called "Dreadnoughts".
Ah, thx, so noted! :D
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 16, 2013, 09:22:10 AM
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 16, 2013, 09:10:30 AM
May be worth looking here: http://savygamer.co.uk/2013/08/15/space-hulk-pc-14-62/ - it is selling for £14.70 - can't vouch for the source but have used these key sellers before and I havbe found them reliable.
Hmmm....I've always been wary of stuff like this. Surely the keys are intended for Australian players? If Valve ever have a reason to look at my account, isn't there a chance they may lock it if I've used one of these?
As far as I am aware they are legitimate sites although can't vouch for this one specifically - it is only the same as what Greenmangaming / Gamersgate do when they sell a Steam game. Usually I go here: http://www.dlcompare.com/ to check prices and to get an idea of whether the site in question is decent. They specify if the key is region locked. Most are region free, although Russian keys seem to be locked due to being a lot cheaper.
Thanks Ross_ntu. That's a good point about Gamersgate et al.
However, I'm having second thoughts about Space Hulk now. I don't like how heavily reliant on luck you are. I just watched a vid of someone playing on Youtube, and one of his terminators spent two full turns firing at a genestealer who was just standing still...took him until the last shot of his last turn to get the kill.
I prefer to win because I played well, or lose because I played badly, than to come up with a great plan only to have it fail because I kept rolling 1s. :(
I may have hit one bug. For some reason an Undo command didn't work for me. But it may have been me as I had started to work on another unit, then came back. I'm not clear how many Undos you can make.
Not being the Space Hulk board game purist that the RPS reviewer is, I found the review overly harsh. Is this a great game? No. Is it an entertaining, beer & pretzels turn-based tactical game in the WH40K universe? Yes. I think whether or not it is "Space Hulk" depends a great deal on how much you love and played the actual board game. I certainly don't regret spending the money on it.
Undo certainly appears bugged. I recommend not using it at all unless absolutely necessary.
Yes, the game is VERY VERY MUCH DEPENDENT ON LUCK!! Which is one of the big randomizing factors of course. Another reason I am coming to strongly prefer the old FPSish version; it's still based on luck but seems to allow more modification for skill. Aimed bolter shots seem to work better; the timing of movements is better and hugely important. Notably, I recall one of the very annoying changes in VotBA being the removal of aiming while making the marines able to slowwly turn to face different directions, effectively making THAT the "aiming" which was ridiculous. I kind of understand why they thought they had to do that, because the quick turns of the suits in the first game seemed very odd for suits which could only plod along, but it destroyed much of the player's ability to properly interact in the world.
(VotBA also put you directly in the game as the officer in charge of the squad, after the rather brilliant tutorial missions, which made it much more difficult to organize the other marines properly. The original FPS put the player effectively in the position of the Colonial Marine lieutenant from Aliens -- often with hilariously similar results. ;D)
I have to admit, I spent a while this afternoon after work trying and failing to find my old VotBA PC version game (I have the version for PS1 but it's even clunkier than what I recall from the PC version). I guess it's just as well because as much as I want to like that version and its juiced up port of (most of) what made the original FPS adaptation so great, the subtle but crucial gameplay changes just kill the functionality for me.
Fortunately I have the original FPS adaptation installed and running on my laptop. So smooth, such a genius design. Someone could make all the money re-adapting that to modern specs. Don't change anything, just upgrade the graphics (and the sounds a little but not overmuch because the balance was exquisitely perfect; keep the old voice work if possible), tie the missions together properly in-game, allow players to build their own maps, and occasionally sell new campaigns as DLC. Step 2, profit.
Panzerde,
Mmm, I don't think half of it was overly harsh. The review seemed evenly split along two lines:
1.) THE BUGS ARE UNFORGIVABLE!! -- I don't have the bugs (so far) but I can understand and sympathize with that.
2.) THERE IS NO WAY THIS GAME COULD BE PORTED AND ACTUALLY WORK BECAUSE IT NECESSARILY ELIMINATES WHAT MAKES THE GAME GREAT AS A TABLETOP EXPERIENCE!!! -- I'm willing to agree this is a valid if subjective viewpoint. Some of us could never have anyone to play the boardgame with, so (like the Blood Bowl port, once it reached Chaos edition status with some further patching) I'm glad to have it. But I'm becoming more convinced that it doesn't work very well as a computer game per se, not compared to the original computer adaptation back in the Doom days, which kept the concepts of the tabletop game but adapted them to the strengths of a computer presentation.
My provisional recommendation to anyone still on the fence would be
1.) wait until further patching (because the bugs seem very real even though only for people with certain rigs, whatever those are, and there's no way to return the game) UPDATE: NEW PATCH RELEASED WHILE I WAS POSTING, 29.3 Megs
and then
2.) get it on sale, unless you just feel like spending your money on full price to support the devs as thanks for making the game at all.
Possibly also (3) find a safe free version of the original FPS adaptation from SSI (or whoever did it), and run that with Dosbox D-Fend instead.
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 16, 2013, 03:40:03 PM
Usually I go here: http://www.dlcompare.com/ to check prices and to get an idea of whether the site in question is decent. They specify if the key is region locked. Most are region free, although Russian keys seem to be locked due to being a lot cheaper.
This website seems too good to be true! You say you've ordered from these places a lot? Which key resellers do you trust?
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 04:22:58 PM
My provisional recommendation to anyone still on the fence would be
1.) wait until further patching (because the bugs seem very real even though only for people with certain rigs, whatever those are, and there's no way to return the game) UPDATE: NEW PATCH RELEASED WHILE I WAS POSTING, 29.3 Megs
and then
2.) get it on sale, unless you just feel like spending your money on full price to support the devs as thanks for making the game at all.
Possibly also (3) find a safe free version of the original FPS adaptation from SSI (or whoever did it), and run that with Dosbox D-Fend instead.
I'd agree with all the above. This is certainly not an "OMFG I HAVE TO BUY THIS" game. I'd also say the more someone is looking for a faithful computer port of the SH board game, the less they're going to enjoy this game.
Not to derail the thread too badly, but if you are still looking for a board game fix on the PC, Catan-Creators Edition (http://store.steampowered.com/app/239410/) is half the price and seems to be getting pretty good feedback. The only complaint seems to be no multi-player.
One thing becomes clear after playing this game: the Terminators have some of the worst weapons and some of the worst shots in the history of history.
What is this Alien Assault (http://www.teardown.se/) that is free and looks to be very similar? And yes, I realize that somebody is going to post a link to a 9+ page thread here discussing this game already because surely I'm not the first to stumble across this one. And don't call me Shirley.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 16, 2013, 05:05:18 PM
One thing becomes clear after playing this game: the Terminators have some of the worst weapons and some of the worst shots in the history of history.
It's actually more reflective of how damn quick Genestealers are. Remember that even though they're standing still, that's only to allow the game to remain turn based. They're fast, they can scuttle up walls, and they have super-quick reaction speed. Not easy to hit, even if you have super-powered everything.
So, a few thoughts after playing the tutorial campaign :
-The overall product is solid, and it definitely replicates that whole "ROLL A GODDAMN 6!" feeling of the board game. Of course, it doesn't replicate having your buddy playing as the Genestealers laughing at you. And to be honest, that is kind of missed.
-I was initially annoyed at the presence of an Undo button. "Nothing ratchets up tension like the ability to mess around and re-do stuff!" However, it's needed...because it is WAY too easy go end up with a dude moving where he shouldn't be. I've also run into repeated issues with guys changing their facing for absolutely no reason. For example, I want a guy to move backwards 2 hexes, but he decides to turn around first. Why? Don't know. If I set it to the same facing with him moving backwards, it counts that as needing 6 points, even though I'm not actually changing his facing. ANNOYING.
-Not sure if it's simply due to the small Prequel maps, but the AI just sort of tosses Genestealers at you in dribs and drabs. Oh look, a whole one more...how not really scary at all.
-The game really doesn't do a good job of explaining WHY you missed, unless you read the log. Nowhere does it state in the rules or BEFORE you fire that you roll 2 dice with a Storm Bolter, and you need a 6 to hit. I also don't remember it explaining that melee is a REALLY bad idea because your guy rolls one die and the Stealer rolls 3, and highest number wins. It doesn't mention why jams happen...a double is rolled in Overwatch...just that they do. They really missed the boat on explaining the exact mechanics of how the game work, so anyone who isn't a veteran of the board game isn't going to really know WHY something happened. This seems like a really big miss to me. How hard is it to add a couple of sentences to the rules that explains this? I think this lack of clarity has led to a fair number of the complaints from those who aren't fans of the board game.
-I don't mind the animations of slow-footed Terminators. It does seem odd that there is no way to simply skip them, however. Maybe click again and he's at the end of the movement already?
It seems decent overall, but I definitely have complaints. The glitching with movement and facing needs to be cleaned up pronto. Hell, make me double click to actually set a move...that solves that problem.
Quote from: panzerde on August 16, 2013, 04:33:06 PM
This is certainly not an "OMFG I HAVE TO BUY THIS" game. I'd also say the more someone is looking for a faithful computer port of the SH board game, the less they're going to enjoy this game.
um... okay, well, it seems to be a faithful port to me from everything I've heard so far. Even the RPS guy's complaints weren't that the rules and concepts were faulty, but that there were horrible bugs (for some people, the ones I've seen are minor, and the first patch sure hasn't fixed those yet); and that no computer port of the board game was going to ever be able to port what was (to many players) the most fun aspects -- even though
technically everything is there. i.e. the attempt was broken and doomed to fail from the start regardless of any technical proficiency achieved.
But if something isn't there that's in the board game, please be sure to say so! -- out of all the various complaints, I haven't seen anything mentioned like that yet.
Quote from: GJK on August 16, 2013, 05:14:02 PM
What is this Alien Assault (http://www.teardown.se/) that is free and looks to be very similar? And yes, I realize that somebody is going to post a link to a 9+ page thread here discussing this game already because surely I'm not the first to stumble across this one. And don't call me Shirley.
Long ago, back when DOW2 had first been released, the dev team Teardown thought they had gotten permission from Games Workshop to remake the computer version of Space Hulk, and even thought THQ was okay with it. Far along into production, suddenly THQ ordered them to drop it. This confused and annoyed everyone, especially since GW backed THQ. (Some months later THQ announced it was going to make its own version of Space Hulk, surprise. ;) Then they went bankrupt. Then whoever got the Space Hulk rights made this port of the boardgame which was just released.)
Teardown finished the overhead map portion of the game, created new lore, kept a lot of the art (with minor copyright evading tweaks) and released it as donateware. If I recall correctly (not having played it) it plays just like the first SH-FPS, except without the FPS part: real-time with a ticking pause clock (which slowly recharges during real time) for plotting squad orders. UPDATE: although now that I look more closely at it, it seems to be turn-based after all (what I thought was a pause clock was a timed end-round button).
It's a quality product and I hear lots of good things about it. If they had been able to include the FPS, which I feel helps the immersion and tension of the original SH-FPS, I'd have bought it from them long ago (i.e. downloaded and donated a full game price). I may still do that. ;)
Quote from: LongBlade on August 16, 2013, 05:05:18 PM
One thing becomes clear after playing this game: the Terminators have some of the worst weapons and some of the worst shots in the history of history.
The assault cannons are even more goofy than the ones in the old game, although I guess closer to the boardgame rules? -- at least they have more ammo than the old game. (I think I recall them being good for literally six shots, although ammo could be found on the ground on some maps and at least they certainly killed everything down the line for one shot. But in the old game they didn't explode and didn't take forever to reload, and at least they always hit.)
Still, while I understand the agility of the stealers leads to misses, this does not even slightly explain the jamming of the storm bolters, which really ought not to be a problem (nor the limited ammo for the assault cannons since logically they could use the same infinite ammo tech as the bolters.)
Tonight I had my first round of serious bolter jamming, nearly ruining a mission (leading to the death of one of my captains and a heavy flamer). I have to wonder if this is a boardgame rule port, to the effect that once a weapon jams during a turn it's more prone to do so afterward for a while. (I realize the jamming is a core part of the rules, to balance out the Marines vs the stealers.)
Frankly someone should have included a rulebook more clearly explaining things with the game, in several regards. Some of the missions could stand clarifying, too. I'm about to play the "Decoy" mission, which I know for a fact (I confirmed it with my old mission book) involves flaming two targets before leaving the area, and the mission briefing kind of sounds like this is still expected, but nothing on the map indicates it (before mission launch anyway). Also either this or the previous mission has the Marine leader saying only one squad is available for command, when the game clearly shows two (and does in fact have two squads. I was familiar with that mission from the original game, too, and thought man they were trying too hard to make this mission difficult!!--but it was only a bug pointing to the wrong voice file I guess.)
The player isn't supposed to be the "sergeant" either, you're supposed to be the Captain directing the squads and their sergeants. Meh.
Still, I'm having a lot of fun with it, even though I'm planning to pull out the old FPS when I'm done. I bet I could make my little nieces pee in fear with that game! 8)
Quote from: Arctic Blast on August 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
-Not sure if it's simply due to the small Prequel maps, but the AI just sort of tosses Genestealers at you in dribs and drabs. Oh look, a whole one more...how not really scary at all.
No, that's just the prequel maps.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's amazing how scary the old computer game made its tutorial maps EVEN THOUGH THE FIRST THREE MISSIONS HAD NO ALIEN THREATS AT ALL!! Literally the only way to die was to accidentally walk into one's own flamer. (Heck, even the sequel/update made the first missions scary despite the screwy control scheme.)
I used to love letting people play the game for the first time, watching their reactions on the first few missions. (Especially if they were familiar with Doom which had been released not long before.) Then they start to wonder when the aliens will begin to appear. Then the aliens start to appear and the players start to freak out somewhat. Then they start getting used to the aliens a bit. Then the game really kicks in. :)
Quote from: Arctic Blast on August 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PMI also don't remember it explaining that melee is a REALLY bad idea because your guy rolls one die and the Stealer rolls 3, and highest number wins.
I recall the odds of a normal fist fight being one in three survival, and I guess that's why. But yeah, I recall it because that rule was explained back in the freaking 90s with the original computer game. THE ORIGINAL COMPUTER GAME IS TEACHING ME MORE HOW TO PLAY THIS THAN THIS GAME DOES!! >:(
Quote from: Arctic Blast on August 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PMIt doesn't mention why jams happen...a double is rolled in Overwatch...just that they do.
Oh? Yep, I had exactly no idea about that at all.
Say what you want about the ambitious Blood Bowl game, but they by God got the rules to the players and made the background dice rolls a little more transparent.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on August 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PMThey really missed the boat on explaining the exact mechanics of how the game work, so anyone who isn't a veteran of the board game isn't going to really know WHY something happened. This seems like a really big miss to me. How hard is it to add a couple of sentences to the rules that explains this? I think this lack of clarity has led to a fair number of the complaints from those who aren't fans of the board game.
Very much agreed.
I haven't seen any movement/facing glitches yet, btw. (Other than the incredibly stupid decision to make two spaces backup be a turnaround INSTEAD OF BACKING UP TWO SPACES!! But that's an intentional design decision.) Must be another bug specific to a rig somehow.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 08:08:48 PM
But if something isn't there that's in the board game, please be sure to say so! -- out of all the various complaints, I haven't seen anything mentioned like that yet.
I'll take a stab in the dark here, but...
1. You're playing a PC game against a brain-dead AI that doesn't even laugh in your face when you make a bonehead move.
2. Your forefinger is all that is used to play the game so you have no tactile sensation from it. I.e., you don't even roll the dice or move the figures.
3. You didn't spend a minute on painting miniatures or making a custom game board to enhance the visual for the game.
4. The PC game does everything for you so you have no interaction with the game itself.
5. It's a POS boardgame port that yet again fails because boardgames don't port well to the PC because they are missing a single ingredient....you sitting at a table moving the game pieces and with another person sitting opposite of you doing the same. Hell, even having to stop to look up a rule becomes kind of cool sometimes actually.
Again, just a guess. :)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on August 16, 2013, 05:05:18 PM
One thing becomes clear after playing this game: the Terminators have some of the worst weapons and some of the worst shots in the history of history.
The assault cannons are even more goofy than the ones in the old game, although I guess closer to the boardgame rules? -- at least they have more ammo than the old game. (I think I recall them being good for literally six shots, although ammo could be found on the ground on some maps and at least they certainly killed everything down the line for one shot. But in the old game they didn't explode and didn't take forever to reload, and at least they always hit.)
Still, while I understand the agility of the stealers leads to messes, this does not even slightly explain the jamming of the storm bolters, which really ought not to be a problem (nor the limited ammo for the assault cannons since logically they could use the same infinite ammo tech as the bolters.)
Tonight I had my first round of serious bolter jamming, nearly ruining a mission (leading to the death of one of my captains and a heavy flamer). I have to wonder if this is a boardgame rule port, to the effect that once a weapon jams during a turn it's more prone to do so afterward for a while. (I realize the jamming is a core part of the rules, to balance out the Marines vs the stealers.)
Frankly someone should have included a rulebook more clearly explaining things with the game, in several regards. Some of the missions could stand clarifying, too. I'm about to play the "Decoy" mission, which I know for a fact (I confirmed it with my old mission book) involves flaming two targets before leaving the area, and the mission briefing kind of sounds like this is still expected, but nothing on the map indicates it (before mission launch anyway). Also either this or the previous mission has the Marine leader saying only one squad is available for command, when the game clearly shows two (and does in fact have two squads. I was familiar with that mission from the original game, too, and thought man they were trying too hard to make this mission difficult!!--but it was only a bug pointing to the wrong voice file I guess.)
The player isn't supposed to be the "sergeant" either, you're supposed to be the Captain directing the squads and their sergeants. Meh.
Still, I'm having a lot of fun with it, even though I'm planning to pull out the old FPS when I'm done. I bet I could make my little nieces pee in fear with that game! 8)
Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, any roll of doubles will jam the Storm Bolter. However, this ONLY happens in Overwatch. It's to reflect the fact that they;re blasting away full auto, just hosing down as much area as they can in overwatch, so the gun can jam up.
Sergeants give you a better chance for good CP draws. Not sure if that was mentioned in the rules or not.
The Assault Cannon has ten shots, but blasting away with it Full Auto kills 5 of them in one fell swoop. It can be reloaded once in-mission for another ten shots, then it's out of ammo. The plus is, it rolls 3 dice and hits on a 5 or 6. With the sustained fire bonus, it hits on a 4+. The bad news, in the unlikely event that you roll 3 of a kind the gun explodes. It kills the wielder, and every adjacent Genestealer and Marine needs to roll for damage as well. This whole system works exactly like it does in the board game.
2 differences from the board game that I've spotted : In the table version, at the end of a round all status markers are removed from the board. So Overwatch and Guard stances end, and jams AUTOMATICALLY CLEAR (since they are only supposed to affect Overwatch). Yet in the computer version, you still need to spend a point to clear the jam.
It also seems like Overwatch operates with a permanent Sustained Fire bonus. I've seen multiple Overwatch kills happen with a Storm Bolter rolling a 5. Overwatch doesn't get a to-hit bonus...you need a 6 to kill (5-6 with Assault Cannon). If the first shot misses, subsequent shots at the same Genestealer hit on a 5-6 (4-6 with Assault Cannon). Once it's dead, the next Stealer again is hit only on a 6.
Not sure why they changed those two rules. I get changing rules to make an electronic version work better, but these changes really don't do much in that department.
One good thing I noticed in the first mission : PILES of Genestealers. Ended the mission having killed 26 of the bastards (with one valiant death in the process).
While I like to encourage discussion, I think this is a lot of talk over a lot of nothing. I'm enjoying the game, for what it is, and it is pretty much meeting myy expectations, which happened to be pretty low to begin with.
I mean, let's put this in perspective. Its a GW IP handed to a no name developer to make a replica of a boardgame over a very shoert development cycle. Rome wasn't built in a day, so when news broke of an August release, I knew it was going to be little more than a port of a boaedgame.
The problem seems to me that it's a buggy port of a boardgame, seemingly not entirely the same rules. A short development cycle and a "no-name developer" is an explanation for the bugs, not an excuse. If I had paid 28 euro's for the game, and I couldn't play it due to bugs, I would not be amused too. Similarly, if it is supposed to be a PC version of a well-known W40k boardgame, but it is not entirely the same whilst not taking advantage of what a PC can do (but instead, making the game slower in the case of the complaint about the slow animations), that would be a reason not to be pleased as well.
I agree with your point about putting things into perspective, but as stated the points you bring up are an explanation for what players experience, not an excuse. If it's a mediocre product and people expected or were led to expect a quality product, it's not surprising that people are disappointed.
Yeah got this last night, thought it was alright so far, a few glitches. Nailed the first two missions on hard. I still play the 93 one at least once a month and the teardown one about half, also have the SHSP homebrew one somewhere as well all are great fun. I would have prefered 2nd edition rules and dice rolls showing but hey ho. Still better fun than all the cod's after the 2nd to the present combined. Sure patches will come and hopfully the mods, i miss my nurgle termies from days passed. How can burning xeno filth and reciting from the litanys of hatred ever become old. Still prefer the 93 version voice over tho =) bless thy weapons.
Quote from: GJK on August 17, 2013, 12:05:15 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 08:08:48 PM
But if something isn't there that's in the board game, please be sure to say so! -- out of all the various complaints, I haven't seen anything mentioned like that yet.
I'll take a stab in the dark here, but...
1. You're playing a PC game against a brain-dead AI that doesn't even laugh in your face when you make a bonehead move.
2. Your forefinger is all that is used to play the game so you have no tactile sensation from it. I.e., you don't even roll the dice or move the figures.
3. You didn't spend a minute on painting miniatures or making a custom game board to enhance the visual for the game.
4. The PC game does everything for you so you have no interaction with the game itself.
5. It's a POS boardgame port that yet again fails because boardgames don't port well to the PC because they are missing a single ingredient....you sitting at a table moving the game pieces and with another person sitting opposite of you doing the same. Hell, even having to stop to look up a rule becomes kind of cool sometimes actually.
Again, just a guess. :)
I like all this, not in particular reference to this game as i havent bought it, but i like the passion about board games - and wish it wasnt true because i havent got the time or the group to play them with :(
Just finished "Decoy" -- 18 turns, a little over 55 minutes.
63 Genestealers dead. Lost my thunderhammer and shield sergeant right out of the gate or it would have been more. First melee, bam. Assault cannon tries to plug the hole, but fails. My only two losses for the mission, but I was afraid at that point the mission was going to be completely screwed.
As long as we're griping about some things, may I add how much I love the art in this version? :) (Sure I don't get to design the Marines myself, but the randomization of detail on the figures is very very nice.)
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2013, 08:19:00 PM
Teardown finished the overhead map portion of the game, created new lore, kept a lot of the art (with minor copyright evading tweaks) and released it as donateware. If I recall correctly (not having played it) it plays just like the first SH-FPS, except without the FPS part: real-time with a ticking pause clock (which slowly recharges during real time) for plotting squad orders. UPDATE: although now that I look more closely at it, it seems to be turn-based after all (what I thought was a pause clock was a timed end-round button).
It's a quality product and I hear lots of good things about it. If they had been able to include the FPS, which I feel helps the immersion and tension of the original SH-FPS, I'd have bought it from them long ago (i.e. downloaded and donated a full game price). I may still do that. ;)
Also of note is a small indie knock-off named
Steam Marines, in alpha/beta right now.
http://www.steammarines.com/
It used to look more like Space Hulk, with what looked a bit like space marines in battle armor, but they look to have changed it a bit at some point, and added more enemy types. So it's been looking less and less like the old SH over time, as stuff has been added.
The interesting features of note in this one is procedurally-generated levels, and an RPG-ish Item system.
Perhaps more of a Roguelike evolution.
You can download and play the Alpha for free. Download on their site.
***
I don't know if this has it's own post here at Grogheads yet, but JP's post reminded me of it.
Steam Marines looks pretty good!
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 16, 2013, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: ross_ntu on August 16, 2013, 03:40:03 PM
Usually I go here: http://www.dlcompare.com/ to check prices and to get an idea of whether the site in question is decent. They specify if the key is region locked. Most are region free, although Russian keys seem to be locked due to being a lot cheaper.
This website seems too good to be true! You say you've ordered from these places a lot? Which key resellers do you trust?
I wouldn't say a lot - maybe 3 / 4 games I have bought from these keysellers so far - latest were EU4 for £24 roughly and Civ V Brave New World for £16 ish - the EU4 key was on preorder effectively but it came before the game was released. Brave New World was delivered the day I bought it too as far as I remember. Certainly I was happy with the service from G2Play.net who I bought from on that occasion. I tend to check the reviews before buying, which is bonus of looking at dlcompare - you can see what others are saying about the site before buying from them. It tends to be most worthwhile with new games, or games that are older but whose price is still relatively high on Steam. Certainly, since trying these types of site for the first time, I have not had a problem, and as long as you don't simple go for the cheapest and take the time to read the reviews I think it is a good way to get decent discounts with no downsides, apart from the fact you may need to wait and hour or two for the key to arrive.
Sgt. Gideon is an absurd bad ass. He is wrecking everything near him with the Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer. He single-handedly held down an entire section of the ship during the C.A.T. retrieval mission.
Gideon has done very well for me on other missions, too; which is why I was so surprised he sneezed or something and got pasted immediately during the Decoy mission.
The other sergeant (Lorenzo?) did much better, since he could spak stealers at a distance with his bolter and then parry thrust them up close with his power sword. He was one of the last marines to the teleporter, probably accounted for about 1/4 of the 63 by himself.
Two other Marines with mere bolters held down long corridors for a protracted period of time (easily picking up 1/3 each of the totals I expect). I wish the game allowed me to give them xp and gifts. Heck, even the poor flamer managed to hold a corridor and carefully back down it until the remaining sergeant could take over. No less than three Marines (including the sergeant and the flamer) made heroic backstep fighting retreats, and the fourth guy just planted himself beyond the final junction and WOULD NOT FREAKING MOVE despite jams and the occasional fist smacking. On the last turn, with stealers closing in from all directions I rolled a bunch of command points and he was able to make a successful run for the teleporter.
I just finished the third mission in the Sin of Damnation campaign and I must say I'm really enjoying the game. I've started my review and will continue to write it up as I play through more of the game.
I'm really liking it so far. Earlier, I pulled off a no casualty win in 'Clense and Burn' - a mission that I always had trouble with (for some reason) in the board game.
Not sure what other stuff unlocks, but it would be nice to have the 'Deathwing' and 'Genestealer' expansions. I did see somewhere that we can expect a painter so that we can create other chapters as you can in DoW, so that would be nice.
Quote from: bob48 on August 18, 2013, 01:58:30 PM
I'm really liking it so far. Earlier, I pulled off a no casualty win in 'Clense and Burn' - a mission that I always had trouble with (for some reason) in the board game.
Not sure what other stuff unlocks, but it would be nice to have the 'Deathwing' and 'Genestealer' expansions. I did see somewhere that we can expect a painter so that we can create other chapters as you can in DoW, so that would be nice.
sir bob - i think theres level editors, painters and gear expansions coming right over the horizon
Aye, so it would seem. I just had a look on the Hulk website and saw that bit of good news :)
ok so the game isnt what was expected?
go back to playing AirLand Battle.
I think the game is fine, as far as I've gone with it, and recreates the board game pretty well.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 18, 2013, 02:21:27 PM
ok so the game isnt what was expected?
go back to playing AirLand Battle.
How do you come to that conclusion based on what has been posted in this thread? I'd say the game is everything that was expected. Depending on your perspective though, that may or may not be a good thing!
Well we didn't expect around 1/3 of the buyers to have game-killing bugs, but other than that it's an almost exact port of the boardgame.
In that sense, yes it's what we expected. :)
(Some people expected it would never be able to recreate the proper interactivity of the boardgame per se, and of course that's true, but for those of us who don't have the boardgame or someone to play it with, it works. Minus the bugs. ;)
Meanwhile, I'm rather surprised that whoever owns the rights to Dawn of War now didn't authorize a sale at Steam and/or GG to pick up some good will (or bad will!) from the release of Space Hulk. I would have quickly snapped up Retribution if it was on sale.
patch out ;D. must say liking it more the more i play it. did not notice before but it does show the dice rolls and you don't have to wait for a termie to finish moving before you move another. If i could ask for something it would be fp view, to give the claustrophobic feeling.
Since I never played the board game or the older PC version I like this just fine as well.
Quote from: bob48 on August 18, 2013, 01:58:30 PM
I'm really liking it so far. Earlier, I pulled off a no casualty win in 'Clense and Burn' - a mission that I always had trouble with (for some reason) in the board game.
Not sure what other stuff unlocks, but it would be nice to have the 'Deathwing' and 'Genestealer' expansions. I did see somewhere that we can expect a painter so that we can create other chapters as you can in DoW, so that would be nice.
I just pulled off a casualty-free run of Decoy. Of course, I'm not playing with the Space Marine timer, so I'm kinda cheating and giving myself more time for planning that I would normally have. ;D
Yeah, I'm hopeful that this gets supported. I'm also down for some MP with people at some point. Anyone tried that yet? Does it use your Steam friends list, or something else?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 18, 2013, 02:34:13 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 18, 2013, 02:21:27 PM
ok so the game isnt what was expected?
go back to playing AirLand Battle.
How do you come to that conclusion based on what has been posted in this thread? I'd say the game is everything that was expected. Depending on your perspective though, that may or may not be a good thing!
because Im playing that and not this. ;)
Phew, I forgot how completely nasty that Toxin map was. Doesn't help that the game flat refused to tell me how far away from the pumps I had to remain to fire my heavy weapons at.
Heh, got DoW:SS running this afternoon, too. Not sure why it wouldn't run the first time I tried to install it months ago, but oh well, it works now. Never did play the campaign on that one, had a plethora of choices but decided to stick with the grunty guards, since on the balance they seem to have the best reason to be fighting in the system.
So I keep hearing you guys talk about Warhammer and how you want to play it in preparation for Space Hulk...
And in fact, I even saw a well-known Groghead log onto Steam and play Warhammer this afternoon while I was busy with an adult game of Red Orchestra 2...
So I look back to my Steam library. I have the entire DoW series. I know I booted up DoW2 before and for some reason never played it again. Anyway, all the discussion made me think perhaps I missed something, so I just booted it back up. I had 6 minutes played before.
Ok, first campaign mission...man alive. I am just not sure what you guys are seeing in this. DoW2 reminds me of that game in the Simpsons that Bart wanted to get for Xmas: Bonestorm.
Sorry, can't find a clip. But trust me, it's just like DoW2. ;D
for whatever reason I just cant get into the mythos of this 'verse. Ive tried but it just doesnt stick.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 18, 2013, 11:35:28 PM
for whatever reason I just cant get into the mythos of this 'verse. Ive tried but it just doesnt stick.
That is a perfectly legitimate reaction to any franchise. Some folks won't "get it" and that's OK.
I never got into the WH/WH40K stuff until I messed around with the minis and read a bunch of the books. I figured I had to do it since there were too many people who were writers or forumites who were into it.
Now that I've played the games I get into it. I'm not crazy about the stuff, but I can appreciate when a good game comes along, like Space Hulk.
BTW Space Hulk gets a lot better once you start unlocking some of the cool toys for the Termies.
Bonestorm video courtesy of 1UP. (http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/5888)
The actual game of Bonestorm isn't so much like WH40K as the mock game before it (with a guy punching a tank) and Santa's sleigh crashing the house, both of which take up much more of the pseudo-commercial together. Bonestorm itself is more like Mortal Kombat.
However, I would totally believe something in WH40K is called "Bonestorm". ;D Santa and his sleigh would completely fit into WH40K, too. (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&as_q=Warhammer+Santa&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=Dx0SUr-wHMje2AWHhIDQDw&ved=0CBgQsAQ) 8)
Quote from: Toonces on August 18, 2013, 11:20:57 PM
Ok, first campaign mission...man alive. I am just not sure what you guys are seeing in this.
DoW2 is rather different from DoW1 (though with better graphics): if you don't like hero-based tactical real-time battles, don't bother. (Retribution might be more squad-based, seems like it, but I don't have that yet so I can't confirm.) The game does become more complex after the first missions, but it still amounts to taking 2 to 6 characters and running them around an isometric map shooting (and occasionally punching) an army of other things, zapping off the occasional superpower, and pimping them out with gear and levelups in between fights. (There's a story, too, but if you aren't interested in the WH40K background material by the time you get into the first mission, you probably aren't going to care anymore later.)
While DoW1 has occasional hero units (including a main character who levels up with gear in the 3rd and 4th game campaigns), it's much more a base-building squad/vehicle management RTS, the same engine as Company of Heroes. (There's less of the base building in the campaigns of the 1st and 2nd games, but still largely squad management.) In design I agree with the majority consensus that it's one of the finest RTS games of its generation and, along with
Battle For Middle-Earth (1 not 2) and
Kohan 2: Kings of War, one of the easiest games for new RTS players to learn. However, like many people I find DoW1 badly needs the camera-zoomout mod to work best at higher resolutions.
One of the nice things about DoW1 is that by the time you get to Soulstorm (and except for the campaigns, and some differences in the rules that some people prefer like having no limit on turrets in earlier games, there isn't any reason to get any game earlier than SS), there are nine teams with enough differences between them for some fun variety; and you can paint and customize your teams in various ways.
If you're a bit frustrated with this PC port, and you have an Android device, its worth looking over the Trese Brothers Templar Assault game.
I wish there was a classic mode, with basic squads sarg flamer and heavy bolters. the librarian is really overpowered, just done the capture and escape with the relic missions on hard first time without losing a guy. The librarians ability to block a tile makes it way too easy. I want this game to last longer. The ability to unjam bolters in OW using CP is advantage enough.
.
The basic concept is crapsack: everything is corrupted, even the nominal good guys (Eldar, Empire, Tau), and it's just a matter of time before the universe falls apart in some horrible way.
That's an acquired taste, and normally I don't have it (I'm a Christian universalist after all, which means I believe that no matter how bad things and people get everything will work out all right for everyone in the end because fair-togetherness between persons is the ground of all reality); but I do appreciate Ragnarokish last stands for some reason, and WH40K is a very colorful and inventive variation of that.
I'm easing myself into the stories. I liked Baneblade, liked the Space Wolves omnibus, and today started Priests of Mars. This one may be a little heavy in the lore. 30 pages in I'm enjoying it.
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 19, 2013, 08:06:05 AM
Bonestorm video courtesy of 1UP. (http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/5888)
completely fit into WH40K, too. (http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&as_q=Warhammer+Santa&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=Dx0SUr-wHMje2AWHhIDQDw&ved=0CBgQsAQ) 8)
Yeah- that's exactly what DoW2 reminded me of.
"Buy me Bonestorm or go to hell!"
DoW2 sort of reminds me of watching a bunch of little kids all playing war. Everyone is shooting their gun at each other on full automatic, but nobody ever dies. LOL.
^That's GI Joe.
This should have been GI Joe. It might have messed me up more than I am, were it like this, though:
Quote from: Toonces on August 19, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
Everyone is shooting their gun at each other on full automatic, but nobody ever dies. LOL.
Well, except for that bolded part anyway. ;) (Gruesome deaths are par for the course in WH/40K. Okay maybe not in Blood Bowl, exactly.)
THAT G. I. JOE PARODY WAS TERRIFYINGLY HILARIOUS!!
Meanwhile, back on Space Hulk news: a new 247 Meg patch tonight I see.
Tonight's random SH thought while driving home from dinner: I'd like to see a mod (or DLC) featuring the Tau trying to recover/neutralize a Hulk. They should be able to turn without action points (like the stealers) and have a base 5 action rate (in theory base 6 like the stealers but that might make things too easy), but maybe fewer command points. No close combat capabilities to speak of, but if attacked in close quarters they automatically turn to meet it. They have to roll a 6 to not die regardless of what the stealers roll, but can only succeed in counterpunching the stealers if none of the three stealer dice are 4 or greater. No melee
attack for the Tau at all. (Or they can bring in Kroot who fight like the stealers perhaps.) Better guns than the Marines, which don't jam and don't blow up (presumably because Marine guns are old), but don't shoot much better otherwise. (Eldar would shoot much better but that's a different mod, and I can't figure out how to balance them.)
I ran into a solid bug on Mission VI. My Librarian's Psy leaks. I cast a couple of powers and then it drops to four the next turn and zero the following turn.
I thought I saw a bug like that earlier, too, but after realizing my Librarian adds psy powers to help him make melee hits, I wondered if that was what I was seeing. Since then I haven't seen anything suspicious (but that doesn't mean there wasn't a bug because the first time I noticed was around the same mission with much the same WTH where did my psy power go??)
I came here to announce however that there is most certainly a huge bug in the next to last mission, where the... um... huge bug appears for the first time. And the huge bug explicitly has to do with the huge bug being broken: shots that should kill him on rolling a 5+ simply miss with no further explanation, and the game registered my lightning claw marine as killing him even though the stealer killed him instead.
The bloodbug (or whatever he is) gets some huge melee bonuses and can't be hit with fire or psy power damage, so shooting him is the only feasible way to kill him -- but the game won't let me kill him by shooting him!
Meh. Those two missions aren't real anyway. ;) But it doesn't bode well for future campaign expansions if that stealer type is made available.
Hey guys. The grogheads review of space hulk is up on the main page in case you missed it. Let us know what you think in the feedback thread!
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 24, 2013, 04:16:28 PM
Hey guys. The grogheads review of space hulk is up on the main page in case you missed it. Let us know what you think in the feedback thread!
I liked the review, Jarhead. There lots of info in it.
I've not picked the game up yet.. kinda hoping that they will bring out some add-ons with more gameplay. A random map generator, or even an editor, would go a long way to extending content. Some continuity and inventory management would also be additions. That would be dreamy. :D
Am I just wishing for a
WH40K: Chaos Gate style game? Probably. But who here wouldn't like to see another iteration of the X-Com style 40K TBS? ;D
Also.. one somewhat unrelated Spelling Fuhrer point to make: Lightning, not "Lightening". ;)
^^ European spelling?
Since a link wasn't provided, here is the Groghead review: http://grogheads.com/?p=2181
And here is the feedback thread for the article: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=7307.0
I'm stuck on the 'Defend' mission at present.
^ ^ I'm not usually given to cursing, but that mission can kiss my ass.
It highlights a weakness of the game design which is that as a general rule the 'normal' specialized troops are less effective than the usual marines, with the exception of the chainsaw marine who doesn't show up much in this campaign and whose melee abilities are nerfed so that his only real advantage is being able to open broken doors, of which there aren't many to begin with especially on the few missions he appears ARRGGH!!
In the 90s SH-FPS, several missions allow the player to pick the squad layout, and I dang well avoided picking flamers unless there was something that had to be burned, and the rotary cannon marine because his few attack bonuses are heavily offset by his fiddlyness to operate and his limited usefulness (which is even more true in the recent version). I also routinely avoided picking melee-only marines because at the end of the day they could only control one square and had a tendency to not last as long as my regular shooty marines.
That's all still true now. Oh, the thunder hammer/shield sergeant is useful for providing command points, and he might last as long as a regular grunt I guess, but at best he controls one square at a choke point and always only has one attempt to win an engagement.
I understand that much of the point is to force the player to deal with handicaps, but disguising those handicaps as extra special abilities grates me. The librarian, by contrast, is the zenith example of what a special rare troop ought to mean, because he brings extra value to the fight, not a handicap that might be useful in special circumstances. Ditto the sergeant with a sword.
Anyway, the Defend mission. Everyone should be pulled back up north asap to concentrate firepower defensively along routes of advance, with the two melee marines marched up to cover the final hallway to the gas where other weapons won't work and they can be protected from side or back attacks. Thunder hammer sergeant should be the last defense in that case so you'll never lose your last ability to re-roll command points. Flamer cannot provide final defense (as I learned to my chagrin the first time I tried: that final hallway negates all range weapons until you're at its southernmost square at which point all the flamer does is kill what's right in front of it maybe and block for a stealer turn), and is only useful for about six turns plus however long it takes for them to get past his fist, so don't put him anywhere you want to hold a position for the whole mission, and make sure the stealers cannot reach him and attack in six moves. (Don't forget that like you they can advance diagonally one square and unlike you they have six moves per figure and don't take action points to turn.) The assault cannon guy will be useless long before the end of the mission even if he lives to the end of his ammo, so I learned to put him in the middle of the southernmost east/west corridor and flip him back and forth shooting until he died. If you try to use him to anchor anywhere important, he will certainly fail you eventually (when he runs out of ammo at the very latest), and then you'll be screwed trying to scramble to patch his hole.
So don't rely on the flamer or the assault cannon (except to provide temporary distractions while you maneuver other marines), and park the two melee-only troops the only place they'll be most effective, defending the final hallway up to the gas. That leaves you six competent marines to guard long approaches with; try to make those approaches as long as possible and save as many command points to unjam guns automatically as possible.
In regard to the flamer, I eventually had him go up north to temporarily guard one of the two northernmost east/west halls while a useful shooty marine got ready to take his place: no stealer can attack him in one turn. Once he was out of juice I marched him westward down the hall to fistguard long enough for the other marine to lock in position guarding the hall.
Since the conversation delved that way, if I wanted to read some Space Marine/40K stuff, what the heck would I start with? I mean the fiction, not the games, although I might be interested in the minis at some point.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 24, 2013, 09:08:44 PM
Since the conversation delved that way, if I wanted to read some Space Marine/40K stuff, what the heck would I start with? I mean the fiction, not the games, although I might be interested in the minis at some point.
if you were to visit the reading thread, someone kindly posted just this advice not so long ago - i think the consensus of opinion will be the Horus Heresy books
Oops, sorry. I'll go check that out.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 24, 2013, 09:13:04 PM
Oops, sorry. I'll go check that out.
apologies, i didnt mean it to sound abrasive
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4229.0
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 24, 2013, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 24, 2013, 09:08:44 PM
Since the conversation delved that way, if I wanted to read some Space Marine/40K stuff, what the heck would I start with? I mean the fiction, not the games, although I might be interested in the minis at some point.
if you were to visit the reading thread, someone kindly posted just this advice not so long ago - i think the consensus of opinion will be the Horus Heresy books
Belay that order and have that servitor flogged!
Start with either the Ultramarines Omnibus or the Space Wolves Omnibus. The Gaunt's Ghosts series is also excellent.
Baneblade, the Imperial Guards Omnibus, and Flesh and Steel are also excellent starting points.
http://grogheads.com/?p=1008
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 24, 2013, 05:15:23 PM
^^ European spelling?
Nope!
"Lightening" is a derivation of "To Lighten" - make something lighter in weight. I'm not even sure if it's a proper use of it.
"Lightning" is the stuff that shoots out of Emperor Palpatine's hands when he's really enjoying himself. :D
A useful and informative post there, Jason - sounds like good advice.
I have definitely noticed that the Lightning Claws are very weak considering they are 'specialist' CC weapons. Without exception, they have always gone down on the second round of combat and are thus almost useless.
I agree and the use of both the flamer and assault cannon as being used to kill as economically as possible but not used to hold critical points. Only the guys with bolters are really effective as 'reliable' defenders, and the key with them is to establish long fields of fire wherever possible. rather obvious stuff, I know, but worth pointing out.
However, despite the negative parts, I still think is keeps to the flavour of the board game quite well. As we have noted before, one of the key aspects of the game is how well you deploy your assets - which again is true of the board game.
Quote from: bob48 on August 25, 2013, 05:40:00 AM
However, despite the negative parts, I still think is keeps to the flavour of the board game quite well. As we have noted before, one of the key aspects of the game is how well you deploy your assets - which again is true of the board game.
True, I meant that more as a general criticism of the board-game design as well, being ported over to the port. ;) (And to the 90s FPS game in its own way. My impression is that the melee units are more useful this game, as I recall even the thunder-set kit going down pretty quickly in the old FPS.)
ARGH! -- MY OLD SPACE HULK GAME NO LONGER RUNS ON D-FEND/DOSBOX FOR UNKNOWN REASONS!!! Do not understand, want old space hulk game this morning, sadness... Must now look to see if D-fend/DB has Win8 updates yet.
If you want "the High Road" into WH40K (with epic heroes and bad-ass fights), there are a lot of good suggestions out there. I recently finished the Blood Angels, Omnibuses 1&2, and found them to be very enjoyable.
If you want "the Low Road" into WH40K (written from the eyes of soldiers much lower in the Imperial pecking hierarchy but still damn good at their job), I recommend going with Gaunt's Ghosts. I'm a sucker for the underdog and really enjoyed the tales following Commissar Gaunt. The second trilogy in particular was quite strong.
I'm still on the fence for the genre as a whole, but have enjoyed all 12 books that I've read, so I guess that says I must like 'em!
Thank God, finally done, thought I was never going to find the problem...
I mean with getting SH93 to run on my system. ;)
Apparently D-Fend had updated DosBox to version 0.74 at some time in the past on my older computer, and naturally included the most recent edition when I installed it in Win8. While normally that would be good, a whole afternoon of research finally turned up the clarification that SH93 has trouble running on DB.74, producing looping cycle sound crashes of the sort I was experiencing.
The older versions of DB aren't entirely easy to find on their homesite, but once I found and downloaded it, I installed it in a separate folder within the D-Fend shell folder. Then all I had to do was point my Hulk file within D-Fend to the alternate DB install.
NOW I CAN HEAR ALL 60 SECONDS OF THE CRAPPY 90s METAL SONG THAT STARTS THE GAME, and more importantly the wav files won't crash the game anymore.
(The sergeant shouting "DIE!" at the end of the opening animation still brings a fond laugh after all these years... ah....)
peh, old shmold
just as it gets boring you can buy this
http://www.lightninggamingnews.com/leaked-images-reveal-unreal-engine-4-fps-space-hulk-deathwing-set-in-warhammer-40k-universe/
??? That page kind of crashed my browser. Possibly not from awesomeness. (But I do have an old browser.)
I also checked around to see if VotBA had been picked up by anyone (because I can't find my PC-CD and the PS1 version sucks), but GW seems to be keeping a thumb on it without actually doing anything.
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 25, 2013, 06:30:53 PM
peh, old shmold
just as it gets boring you can buy this
http://www.lightninggamingnews.com/leaked-images-reveal-unreal-engine-4-fps-space-hulk-deathwing-set-in-warhammer-40k-universe/
Ugh. Another WH40K first-person shooter? I didn't like the last over-the-shoulder one, that leads you by the nose in full console style.
Need moar strategeries!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nr1zMtEsJQ#t=18
not saying anything after my last roasting! merely posting
I just finished the Escape mission with the Wrath of Baal. Finally. Took about a dozen times.
This game would be more fun if my librarians' Psi power didn't have a memory leak :/
Quote from: undercovergeek on September 03, 2013, 11:03:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nr1zMtEsJQ#t=18
not saying anything after my last roasting! merely posting
There is no sin in that teaser.
(The official page (http://spacehulk-deathwing.com/) has only the teaser and images from it so far.)