Crusader Kings II Demo Out

Started by Grim.Reaper, February 04, 2012, 07:04:40 AM

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Martok

Any idea whether the demo requires Steamworks?  Would love to try it out, but not if I gotta deal with Steam. 

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Grim.Reaper

No steam that I can tell, seems like a stand alone demo.

Grim.Reaper

Seems like demo comes with the tutorial which is great and also limited play of the campaign as one of four characters.   I think I read somewhere you can play 20 years of the game.

son_of_montfort

Quote from: Martok on February 04, 2012, 07:39:43 AM
Any idea whether the demo requires Steamworks?  Would love to try it out, but not if I gotta deal with Steam.

You are just setting yourself up to have to buy the Digital Download version when you find you really love the demo...  ;D

Which was my plan all along...  8)
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Grim.Reaper

Well, fired this up a couple of times today...looks really nice and no crashes, seems like a ton of depth.  However, I have no freaking clue what to do.  A lot of terms are unfamilar to me and not sure what exactly to do.  Tried the tutorials, but not sure I am impressed.  Seems like they are needlessly broken up into basic, intermidate, and advance, which would be fine, but each one like covers 3-4 steps.  Would have liked to seen them strung together better.

Don't get me wrong, I am determined to figure this one out, just going to take a bunch of time:)

son_of_montfort

I can probably help with the terms, if you have any questions. Post specific issues here and I'll try to cover them.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Grim.Reaper

Thanks Som, I will take you up on it for sure as I try and figure it out.

spelk

The tutorials are better than they usually are, however I've become unstuck in one or two of them, and ultimately you have to quit them and replay them until you fathom out what it is they want you to do. The Ship loading/unloading one still has me foxed and I can't get past it. I can unload my army, but the tutorial doesn't go anywhere after that.

I like all the pomp and circumstance presented in the game, but ultimately (as with any of Paradox's Grand Strategy games) I haven't a clue what my main objective is!

I played the King of Poland, I mused over who to marry, thought a German girl would suffice, but ended up with a Norwegian instead. But thats about it. Do I try and assemble a massive army, is it conquest through warfare that is my goal? Is it just surviving? Do I need to capture pomerania to get to the sea?

I haven't got much  of a grasp on medievil England, let alone know what the rest of the world was doing at the time, but I think as so often happens with Grand Strategy games, especially open ended ones, I am but a startled rabbit in the headlights of sandbox possibilities. :)

Playing the CKII demo pushed me over the edge to buy Victoria II's a House divided, perhaps with the American Civil War on the table, I might be able to understand some of the goals... but then again, I fired that up, and lo and behold, the numbers, the icons, the flashing lights and baubles of VicII mesmerise me into a confused mess, an almost ketamine induced apoplexy.

Perhaps I buy these games, just to pretend I'm all knowledgeable and I like to press a few buttons and see a few graphs and pages full of numbers and icons? It feels like I am operating a very complex time machine I know absolutely nothing about. One day I might spin the dial and be whisked back, lost in time and space. :)

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 04, 2012, 06:53:15 PM
I can probably help with the terms, if you have any questions. Post specific issues here and I'll try to cover them.

SOM,

Instead of bothering you with all my term questions, is there a recommended book/web site that might have the majority of the topics for the time period?  I am talking about understanding the hierarchy order of kings, barons, counts, vassals, counties, etc.  Also, lot of general terms as matrilineal marriage, etc.  To be honest, just about every term mentioned in the game I would like to learn more:)

son_of_montfort

Grim,

The feudal hierarchy in CKII is pretty simple - King > Duke/Baron > Count. Dukes and Barons are vassals to Kings and Counts are vassals to kings (and sometimes to Dukes and Barons). You can get a Duchy that has no King, like the Duchy of Majorca in 1311. This is ahistorical, Majorca was actually a kingdom, but I think this has a gameplay purpose of preventing people from becoming kings by eating up a small minor and claiming the title.

The Matrilineal marriage will set up a marriage where the children will share the dynasty name of the mother and not the father. This is also ahistorical, but has the gameplay benefit of allowing female rulers to continue their dynastic name for their children.

The succession laws are explained by the tool tips, so I won't really go into that.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Grim.Reaper

Thanks a ton som that helps me.  Still have a lot to learn but that will be the fun part.

son_of_montfort

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 05, 2012, 08:26:58 PM
Thanks a ton som that helps me.  Still have a lot to learn but that will be the fun part.

Regarding Duke and Counts (should have discussed this in the last post):

If you are a king, then you will choose if you want to assign counts to individual provinces or duke to rule (in your stead) over a collection of counties. Putting in a duke put an intermediate step in between you and the counties, while assigning a count to a province you own directly makes you the direct feudal lord of the count.

In CKII, feudal lords can, and often do (and actually did in real life as well) hold multiple titles. For example, King Robert of Naples (in 1311) is King of Naples (the kingdom at the southern end of Italy), Duke of Province (which was actually a county historically, and counties and duchies were not differentiated as such historically) and duke of Neapoli (or the area around Naples, the county). What this means is that he directly administers these areas, with only a few counts likely to be his subordinates. In CKII you have a "dominion" score that determines how many provinces you can rule directly and still rule effectively. Go over this score by directly administering too many provinces and your directly-ruled provinces will lose loyalty and revenue will drop dramatically. Also, I believe you can get some negative events from this.

To lower your score, you can assign a subordinate. You can take away a big chunk by assigning a duke over multiple provinces and letting him take care of the counts there, or you can assign provinces piecemeal to counts (although this won't lower the score as much). You can also switch them over to episcopal rule, I believe, and assign a bishop (I think you can still do this) - but that brings in some additional problems of succession.

After assigning a subordinate, you still technically control that part of the kingdom, but now you do so through your subordinate and the loyalty of the subordinate will determine how they react to your edicts. The loyalty of the subordinate will also determine if they will fields troops for you, if they will oppose your changes to laws, if they will support your heirs, and WHO they will support if inheritance is up in the air. So you may practically need to assign a duke or count, but doing so suddenly adds in a level of diplomacy that you did not have before.

In general, you want to assign your most loyal members of court to be your subordinates. You want your best and brightest as dukes, because they have more provinces under their control and more authority. You may even want members of your family (sons or nephews) to be dukes (unless, of course, inheritance is up in the air).

Another aspect of this system comes in during military support. In places you control directly, you can raise feudal levies of troops instantly and with no fuss. In places where your vassals (i.e. dukes and counts) control, they have the option to tell you to shove it when you request troops or to become disloyal if you keep their troops out too long.

Lastly, in a perfect world your dukes and counts will stay in your kingdom after your first monarch's death. Of course, this doesn't always happen (and the game will let you know about problematic succession). You can revoke a duke or count's title, and return the duchy or county to your control, but this may cause the vassal to rebel and will certainly make all of your vassals less loyal. Use this option sparingly.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Bison

I'm tempted to buy CK2, but I'm not sure.  I didn't really like CK, but this one looks to have some good new features that may improve gameplay from my perspective.

son_of_montfort

Quote from: Bison on February 06, 2012, 12:04:48 PM
I'm tempted to buy CK2, but I'm not sure.  I didn't really like CK, but this one looks to have some good new features that may improve gameplay from my perspective.

It all depends on what you didn't like about CK1. The new features expand the scope, but the key gameplay is fairly similar.

Of course, if you played the game, you might learn better about how malleable Church institutions were...  8)

But seriously, what did you not like about CK1. I'll let you know if it is still a factor.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert