Missing a classical style WWI video-wargame

mitra76 · February 12, 2012, 02:30:14 PM

I have open this post also on Matrix forum; what do you think about it?

"I verified in these days how pratically is missing a classical style wargame on WWI; sure there are Guns of AUgust and La Grande Guerre, but they are more Great Strategy oriented that a classical hex military wargame. What I'm thinking is more something similar to WITE where the not-military part is auto-managed or abstracted, and the operation are division-brigade level.

Sure WWI present less "movement" of WWII (but this is more true on west and italian front that on East and Balkan front), but present a similar level of tactical changes and experimentations, logistic difficulties, and careful planning.

Also for Vietnam war a pure style wargame is missing: the tactical and strategical problems of this war will be a great challenge for the player
"

Staggerwing · February 12, 2012, 03:02:09 PM

As far as WW1 goes, there is Strategic Command WW1.

Gusington · February 12, 2012, 03:06:22 PM

Also Commander: The Great War is out next month.

Mitra there was a game back in the 80s called Conflict in Vietnam by MicroProse that is exactly what you describe for that war. Maybe you can find it and play it on an emulator?

spelk · February 12, 2012, 03:14:28 PM

Here's your chit moving WWI game.
http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Products/ww1/FRANCE14/FRANCE14.html

Theres always The Operational Art of War III scenarios too.
http://www.the-strategist.net/RD/scenarii/the-operational-art-of-war-scenario-747-Tannenberg-1914-The-Clash-of-Empires

Bison · February 12, 2012, 03:18:20 PM

Both good calls Spelk. I'd also throw in the HPS Vietnam squad battle games too. Vietnam, Tour of Duty and The Proud and the Few.

Although I must admit that I'm confused. Are you looking for a tactical, operational or strategic game?

mitra76 · February 12, 2012, 04:32:34 PM

I know Strategic Command WW1, but like LGG is more great strategic that a operational like WITE (and isometric map hurts me); I know HPS titles, but mine it is more a observation about the fact that certain '900 wars are a niche in a niche sector, especially if don't correspond to image of classical military modern war (aka panzerdivision, breakthrough, conquest ground, pockets).

Bison · February 12, 2012, 04:35:46 PM

Quote from: mitra76 on February 12, 2012, 04:32:34 PM
I know Strategic Command WW1, but like LGG is more great strategic that a operational like WITE (and isometric map hurts me); I know HPS titles, but mine it is more a observation about the fact that certain '900 wars are a niche in a niche sector, especially if don't correspond to image of classical military modern war (aka panzerdivision, breakthrough, conquest ground, pockets).

Dude. I have no idea what this means. What kind of WW1 game are you looking for anyway? There are actually a lot of WW1 games or construction set type games with WW1 scenarios.

twitter3 · February 12, 2012, 07:51:05 PM

One answer: TOAW III.

Slick Wilhelm · February 12, 2012, 08:02:19 PM

I think mitra76 has a point. While there are a few very good strategic WWI games(SC:WWI, Guns of August, and the upcoming Commander:The Great War), there's only one operational game below the division level(France 1914).

Not taking anything away from these great games, we don't yet have the "Ultimate" WWI game like WitP and WitE. TOAW has some good scenarios, but that's not the same as a WitP:AE scope game.

I agree with you, mitra. I'm waiting for that game, too.

Bison · February 12, 2012, 08:07:04 PM

So we're talking about a very detailed strategic WW1 game? I'm still confused.

W.S. Hancock · February 12, 2012, 10:44:19 PM

WWI Gold by Ageod. Most in depth WWI game out there, and it is solid.

It is also a classic hex based game, with the hexes disguised as regions.

If you look closely, you will notice that every single region on the map is surrounded by exactly six other regions, thus creating a large hex system.

Has some really cool gameplay elements like picking your starting war plans, which give variant starts and setups for each sides, along with mandatory attacks to reflect the early mindset.

Also has card driven game element.

Recently bought Strategic Command WWI, this one also looks like a winner. While not the same depth as WWI Gold, it still has quite a bit of game there, plus numerous scenarios, an editor, and a bonus WWII scenario that looks great.

I did like Frank Hunters game, but the interface was clunky, and I believe these other two have passed it up as they are more recent releases by several years now.

mitra76 · February 13, 2012, 02:10:15 PM

Slick center my point; WWI Gold is very good but the military part is far from be "classical", is more grand strategic that strategic. What I will want was a game which display to player the problems of military operation in WWI. GUns of August has a good system with HQ point and impulses but is again too abstracted on military side because is more grand strategic that operational. WITE is my template. France 1914 is too limited by the scenario for give a full view to WWI.

JasonPratt · February 13, 2012, 03:10:21 PM

Quote from: Slick Wilhelm on February 12, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
Not taking anything away from these great games, we don't yet have the "Ultimate" WWI game like WitP and WitE. TOAW has some good scenarios, but that's not the same as a WitP:AE scope game.

I agree with you, mitra. I'm waiting for that game, too.

Of course, we do have War Plan Orange (built on the original WitP engine), which might as well be late WW1 in the Pacific.

Bismarck · February 13, 2012, 03:17:52 PM

I think what Mitra is talking about is a WW I version of Decisive Campaigns. Closest we have is HPS/Tiller France '14.

W.S. Hancock · February 13, 2012, 03:21:33 PM

I think that for such a game, you would be constrained to something in the 1914 War of Movement on the Western Front, the 1918 Offensives, or Eastern Front, as I dont see that a product just pouring regiments into frontal assaults against trenches to be slaughtered would be fun as there just isnt the operational element you would be looking for there. Probably has a lot to do with why virtually all the WWI games that do exist are at the WWI Gold/GoA level.

It sounds to me like your dream game would be if somebody converted CoA's epic "Home Before the Leaves Fall" game covering August-November 1914 on a regimental scale with about 2000 units, GMT's Twilight in the East covering the same time span on the same scale on the Eastern Front, or Ted Racier's Great War in Europe, which is the whole show on a divisional scale, to a computer game.

Sadly, as much as I would like to see something like that done, I just dont think it is going to happen.