Question for the WW2 Turn based folks

[acctingman]

Looking at the Panzer Corps 2 games or Unity of Command 2. From what I've seen PZ2 is slightly simpler than UC2?

Anyone who owns both care to comment? What scares me away from UC2 are the comments that the AI is an angry crotchety old man that will bitch slap you for the smallest mistake.

[Jarhead0331]

The Unity of Command series has a very popular following, but it has never clicked with me. It feels like a puzzle game wrapped in the cloak of WWII turn-based strategy. UoC2 did work to address this, but the biggest problem for me is the logistics system in the game, which for some reason, I've really struggled to grasp. The AI has never been much of a challenge for me in these games, but the logistics chain is what has always limited my ability to press my victories and in most cases, a lack of supply results in defeat. I know the problem is me, but it shouldnt be that hard to grasp. I appreciate the importance of supply to military operations, but this series overemphasizes the concept and takes away from the fun factor, in my view.

Knowing your preferences, I think you'd be better off with PC2.

[bobarossa]

You might also look at Hex of Steel.  Less historical accuracy but you get to play with all the toys (equipment) as well as production and research.   I consider it far superior to the original panzer general (never played pg2).

[JasonPratt]

I think Sampstra Games has been doing some in-depth look at both UoC2 and PzCr2.

Reviews suggest PzCr2 has some big problems in map/scenario design, so I've been avoiding it like the plague. ;) I own UoC2 but haven't played it yet. I'm familiar with both PzCr1 (including its campaign expansions for the Wehrmacht, not its other ones which are many), and with UoC1, to some extent. While UoC1 has obvious Panzer General roots, the two systems play quite differently (UoC is much larger scale on ops), and UoC's focus on supply wouldn't be so bad except that the slightest problem rolling the dice can ruin your entire campaign -- and the randomized weather even moreso! UoC2 was supposed to address that problem, but I don't know whether it did.

I know the original UoC was much simpler in many ways compared to PzCorps (or even compared to the original Panzer General), and that again UoC2 was going to improve on that, but I'd be surprised if it exceeded the PzCorps complexity. Can't say from personal experience yet tho!

[FarAway Sooner]

JarHead, to the extent that UoC2 is a puzzle-solving game, logistics is a huge part of that puzzle.  The AI is quite effective in cutting or crimping supply lines, which can (expectedly) put a screeching halt to offensive operations for two or more turns.  To the extent that victory conditions are tied to "seize this objective by this turn", such a local counterattack can really spoil your plans.

UoC and UoC2 can best be thought of as starting out with the basic Panzer General/Panzer Corps model, and then adding in a few new play elements (logistics, weather, etc.).  None of those elements are terribly complicated, but the feedback loops that they create with other aspects of game play lead to a significantly more complicated set of strategic trade-off choices. 

UoC doesn't use "heroes" per se, but does use more abstracted "HQ functions" where various Army commanders can invest points acquired through game play in different capabilities (e.g., "Feint" attacks won't inflict many casualties, but are designed to reduce Entrenchment of opposing forces even when conducted with relatively weak attacking units).  Those abilities can only be activated on a limited basis, but it does add to campaign replayability.

I wish I had any experience with PzCr2, but alas, I don't.

[acctingman]

Thank you all for the comments. I think I'm just going to hold off and scratch my WW2 itch when Second Front comes out.

[JasonPratt]

Regarding "adding in weather", FAS means that there's distinct weather on the map traveling around, due to the larger scale of the operational area. In PzCrps (and back to Panzer General as I recall), the map you're playing on will get random weather across the entire map. In UoC (probably also 2?), the weather will randomly affect a randomly sized blob of hexes on the map, and instead of simply evaporating next turn there's a chance it will randomly move around (or disappear. Or get worse.)

[Father Ted]

Thank you all for the comments. I think I'm just going to hold off and scratch my WW2 itch when Second Front comes out.

I think Second Front is a whole different kettle of frogs compared to the two titles you're asking about to be fair.

[acctingman]

Thank you all for the comments. I think I'm just going to hold off and scratch my WW2 itch when Second Front comes out.

I think Second Front is a whole different kettle of frogs compared to the two titles you're asking about to be fair.

Oh, I agree, but I enjoyed the Battle Academy series and SF reminds me of it (although I know it will be a bit more detailed and complex).