Shogun 2 Difficulty

[Martok]

Between Gus' OP and a friend of mine from another forum applying persistent (yet gentle) pressure, it's becoming awfully hard to resist getting this.  I just wish so badly that it didn't require Steam. 

Of course, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride... 

[W8taminute]

When you go all Warhammer I can't help myself. Hopefully that will be enough of a reason for the tribunal. Time to slaughter some peasants.

You're on fire today Gus!  You recognized my Speed Racer reference and my Warhammer reference.  The world, suddenly, seems right again.

[Gusington]

What can I say, we're all brothers here and [mostly] on the same wavelength!

[TheCommandTent]

The Ikko Ikki are a bit tougher to play than some of the other clans in that their ashigaru units are piss-weak.  I was able to win my campaign with them but it was a very close run thing.  Use your monks and try to bribe weak provinces on the flanks of your enemy as much as possible.  If you can keep your enemy off balance and moving to put down rebellions, it'll make rolling them up much easier.

Oh yeah, and if you think you've had if rough, wait until you experience the Realm Divide.  Just remember, honour is easily forgotten once the spectre of debt rears its head.  Learn to pillage and love it or you'll never survive the divide.

What is the Realm Divide you speak of.  I haven't heard of it.  It sounds menacing.

[Gusington]

^I've only read about it so far, but once the player reaches a certain level of power, the rest of the clans unite against him. Carnage ensues. Beware!

[TheCommandTent]

^I've only read about it so far, but once the player reaches a certain level of power, the rest of the clans unite against him. Carnage ensues. Beware!

That can't be good.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Yes, realm Divide is nasty, especially if you aren't prepared for it.  With the default version, every other clan in the game will eventually declare war on  you as you get hit with a massive jolt to your relationship status and it keeps dropping by -4 every turn after that. 

My adivce is to grab one of the realm divide mods from twcentre.net.  The one I use still hammers you with the massive initial penalty, but doesn't add in the -4/turn after that.  That way, if you made some strong alliances prior to the divide, it's possible your friends will stick by you.  (The Date stayed allied with me when I won as the Takeda.  The buggers backstabbed me when I won as the Ikko-Ikki though.)

The other adivce I'd give is to watch the progress bar that shows the level of interest the Shogunate has in you.  When it fills, that's when the divide hits.  I'd position armies around Kyoto just prior to that and grab it as the territory that'll drive you over the edge into Divide.  Better to be the Shogun than fight the Shogun if everyone's going to come after you anyway.

The other sucky thing about the Divide is that you lose all of your trade when everyone declares war on you.  That's why I recommend pillaging captured cities and taking the honour hit.  It's the only way to maintain a positive cash flow.  Besides you take an honour hit every time your clan declares bankruptcy and everyone's hostile towards you anyway, so there's no real downside to doing so.  (Except if may piss off your few remaining allies if you do install one of the mods.)

Gus, use your monks to incite rebellion in other provinces.  Don't waste cash trying anything else with them.  It's best to park them in the target province and leave them there for a bit in order to convert the place to the Ikki sect.  Even if your attempt to incite a revolt fails, it'll still make the place more likely to rebel later.

If you find that you're getting steamrolled by the AI, try creating a buffer zone by purposely causing a rebellion in one of your own provinces.  Pull all your forces out and, if necessary, burn a few buildings like temples to get the locals all riled up.  The enemy clan will have to deal with the peasant revolt army to get to you and they'll hopefully get banged up in the process, allowing you to counter-attack just after they've depleted themselves taking the rebel province.

[Gusington]

^You my friend sound like a true Sun Tzu educated strategist. Impressive. Definitely not a shameful display.

[jomni]

I'll have to pull the trigger on Shogun 2 during the next sale.

But didn't you hate Steam?

Anyway the Ikko-Ikki succumbed to the Oda in real life anyway.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

You guys are making it hard to hold out buying this title. I still think the original Shogun was the best of the series, probably because I liked the setting.

If the AI is that good, then it's worth a buy.

Still trying to picture Gus as a Jewish Monk Warrior.... :o

I know a small Jewish warrior monk. He can kick ass at lightning speed. Not quite a monk literally but very much the same.


If its your first run through try starting from the small southern islands. Samurai or bow advantage.

[Gusington]

OK so my 2nd attempt at playing the Ikko Ikki is going better as the Oda have a ton of their own problems to deal with, I am using my agents more effectively (claimed Shimosa through skullduggery), I have eliminated the Takeda, etc. But I have made a new enemy in the Satsuke (sp?) and they have at least two huge armies. We are fighting a war of attrition in the northern part of the map. It's a see saw battle. In the meantime I am boosting my trade and attempting to get warrior monk capability as soon as possible...it feels like it takes forever to get the infrastructure in place to produce a good number of monks. I'm feeling once my armies are boosted with them, that will be a game turner.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I was a little disappointed with the warrior monks that the Ikko get.  They are great on attack but very weak on defense and tend to get shredded by enemy archers.   They've also got fairly small unit sizes sovthey get rendered ineffective easily.  I prefered to build an armourer and churn out lots of ashigaru and archers instead.  I'd but a few monks in my army but hold them in the 3rd rank and use then to charge only when the enemy was weakened or threatening to overwhelm me.

[Gusington]

Disappointing eh? I agree they are great as offensive troops. I use them as 'storm troops.' I also tried grenade troops for the first time last night and they are great for lowering morale and breaking up units, especially rebels. If I can smash the Satsuke then I have a good chance of taking on the reigning Shogunate. I am moving an additional army towards their territory now to smash them [hopefully].

Speaking of which, I watched the Shogun go into action for the first time last night also. I can't remember who they went after but they laid down the smackdown on a clan bordering them.

My 'prominence' has also gone up another level, which I look at basically as a Countdown to Destruction. Really enjoying a lot of the new mechanics in Shogun 2. It seems all of the hype last year that it is the best TW game so far is true. Can't wait for Fall of the Samurai.

[Martok]

I know the AI in Shogun 2 gets roundly praised, but can anyone comment specifically on how the AI handles diplomacy?  Does it know when it's beaten and subsequently sue for peace?  And on the flip side, does it know when it has the advantage and subsequently declares war on you (or another clan)? 

I was a little disappointed with the warrior monks that the Ikko get.  They are great on attack but very weak on defense and tend to get shredded by enemy archers.   

In fairness, WM's were vulnerable to arrows in the original STW as well.  Just sayin'. 

[jomni]

I think diplomacy is decent enough.