Let's Talk: Wargame or Not

[Bison]

Well discussing wargames is sort of a ubiquitious process around these parts.  But Claes started a thread over on Steam and it got me to thinking we don't have a thread discussing the merits of what a wargame is exactly.

I know that I've got some preconceived notions of what is a wargame or not.  I could be convinced to reconsider some of the criteria or games I don't think of as meeting wargame requirements.

I like hexes and counters. 
I like turned based.
I like historical.
I like well done maps.
I like ice cream.
I don't believe CIV is a wargame even though it uses hexes, is turned based, and has a historical flavor.
I don't believe RTS necessarily disqualifies a game from being a wargame, but more often than not it does in my book.  Yeah.  I'm looking at you Starcraft.
I'm not fully convinced that FPS are wargames.
Tiller games can have some ugly maps, but they are still wargames.
I don't believe sherbert should be considered as one of Basken Robbins 31 flavors of ice cream.  I'm in the camp that sherbert is not ice cream even though it does contain some measurement of milk or cream in it's composition.  It's like an frozen sugary fruit smoothy with some milk to give it a smoother texture.   

Whether or not those are strict or validate critera for a identifying a wargame I'm not so sure.  OK.  Ice cream isn't a criteria but it's damned good.

Let's hash out the great wargame or not debate.  It's a Groginati obligation and a million times more enjoyable to discuss than politics.

[jomni]

It looks like Wargame is not a genre but is generally something that a grog would like. A Wargame is a Wargame if we say it is one for whatever reason.   Problem is,  we grogs have different tastes.  And different grogs have different levels of grogginess.  Defining a Wargame other than saying it is a game about war is futile.

[Steelgrave]

I pretty well have to agree with every point you make, Bison, including Civ (one of my favorite games of all time).

I grew up playing the classic Avalon Hill games, so my definition of a wargame involves hexes, historical accuracy, counters and maps. My favorite computer war games incorporate all of these elements to one degree or another; even if the hexes aren't visible, you know they are there  ;)  The more it reminds me of those classic boardgames, the happier I am.

I'm a guy who, if I'm watching an old war movie and they use a Patton tank, pretending that it's a Tiger, it ruins the movie for me. So while I no longer have the time or patience to memorize huge rulebooks or go the Advanced Squad Leader route, I'm not a fan of generic...anything.

And Blue Bell Ice Cream beats anything Basken Robbins has ever done. Their Homemade Vanilla is to die for. Their Orange Sherbert is pretty darn good as well  :)

[jomni]

What if i tell you that avalon hill games aren't historically accurate? 

[Bison]

First of all I've never heard of a place called Blue Bell Ice Cream.  Therefore it requires photographic proof of it's existance. 

I must confess that one of my favorite wargames has no hexes, is real time, has functional but not beautiful maps.  Command Ops: Battle for the Bulge.  See I'm already getting all wishy washy on my criteria.

[Bison]

What if i tell you that avalon hill games aren't historically accurate? 

Which era?  Certainly not since they've been taken over by WotWC.

[Steelgrave]

What if i tell you that avalon hill games aren't historically accurate?

Obviously that varies from game to game as playability is a factor, as is the designer.

And Blue Bell is the best-selling ice cream in the south and southwest. I'm not entirely sure the extent of their market, but it's good stuff.

[Bison]

Is Bell Blue as store or a brand sold in the supermarket?

[Steelgrave]

^It's a brand sold in supermarkets. Yeah, I colored outside of the lines a little by comparing them, but I'll take Bluebell over Baskin Robbins anyday.

[Bison]

Well that clears up the first side bar issue...perhaps.

[GDS_Starfury]

wargames need nazis, allies and hexagons.

[Tinkershuffle]

Well discussing wargames is sort of a ubiquitious process around these parts.  But Claes started a thread over on Steam and it got me to thinking we don't have a thread discussing the merits of what a wargame is exactly.

Could you link the original discussion?

[Bison]

Well discussing wargames is sort of a ubiquitious process around these parts.  But Claes started a thread over on Steam and it got me to thinking we don't have a thread discussing the merits of what a wargame is exactly.

Could you link the original discussion?

Sure thing.  http://steamcommunity.com/groups/grogheads/discussions/0/810924774519880667/  It's only 2 posts but it has a link from a discussion on the Steam forums.

[Bison]

Back to the topic at hand.  I do think that defining a game as wargame or not can begin with classifying it's location in one of three tiers.

Tactical, Operational, or Strategic.

[Bison]

wargames need nazis, allies and hexagons.

So does the lack of hexes eliminate Close Combat from consideration as a wargame?