3MA - John Tillers Squad Battles World War I

Boggit · May 03, 2015, 10:49:25 AM

One more turn to go, and I think the Wallabies are going to win big. I'm not anywhere near so sure that subsequent battles will go so well, as Jim is likely to have more men, trenches, barbed wire and machine guns, not to mention artillery. So we are enjoying it whilst we can. A runner has been sent back to the ships with orders to bring up the booze. We'll enjoy ripping the scabs off a few bluies on top of Plugge's plateau!

Cyrano · May 03, 2015, 11:49:49 AM

We, the servants of the Pasha, believe in moral victories...therefore, we are very pleased to have plunged, headlong though it may have been, into the trenches at the tip of Plugge's Plateau.

A Major Victory is a near-certainty for the ANZAC, but we've got troops in the biggest of the VPLOCs that will prove challenging to dislodge!!

*ululating is heard*

panzerde · May 03, 2015, 12:00:13 PM

You go, Pasha Jim! Looks to have been well fought and much fun on both sides.

This and the two WWI Campaigns games certainly are superb systems for learning about this period. I really enjoy not just playing these but reading the really extensive Designer's Notes with all three games. I'm hoping for the next one in the series to cover Serbia/Galicia.

Boggit · May 03, 2015, 12:50:09 PM

Quote from: panzerde on May 03, 2015, 12:00:13 PM
You go, Pasha Jim! Looks to have been well fought and much fun on both sides.

This and the two WWI Campaigns games certainly are superb systems for learning about this period. I really enjoy not just playing these but reading the really extensive Designer's Notes with all three games. I'm hoping for the next one in the series to cover Serbia/Galicia.

I think he has gone! Back to camp for a large raki and kebab! ;)

I can't remember if we had random last turn on or not. Either way I have a major victory. Jim had very few options, and holding the last big victory point hex is something to be clawed out of this scenario. Now where are those beers? ;) I don't expect our next encounter will go so well, as he'll have more troops, dug in, MG's and other toys to play with.

And it'll be his turn to post the pics, and give commentary on the battle. LOL! He'll probably do a better job anyway! ;D

panzerde · May 03, 2015, 01:05:48 PM

Nice job, Boggit! Definitely not an easy fight for Jim, but your Aussies didn't exactly have a cakewalk, either. That's some rough terrain to assault and without much of a pre-invasion bombardment either.

It's astonishing when you read about both Gallipoli and the US landings in Cuba during the Spanish American War how they really didn't seem to do any serious planning for how they were going to get the troops ashore. Fortunately for the Americans there was no resistance, but had the Spanish managed to get just few guns in place it would have been a nightmare. They were literally doing stuff like shoving the horses off the decks of the ships to let them swim ashore - and of course, a bunch of them didn't make it. When I read that the entire planning for the Gallipoli invasion was six weeks...well, you can tell pretty quickly why things went the way they did.

Boggit · May 03, 2015, 02:39:56 PM

Quote from: panzerde on May 03, 2015, 01:05:48 PM
Nice job, Boggit! Definitely not an easy fight for Jim, but your Aussies didn't exactly have a cakewalk, either. That's some rough terrain to assault and without much of a pre-invasion bombardment either.

It's astonishing when you read about both Gallipoli and the US landings in Cuba during the Spanish American War how they really didn't seem to do any serious planning for how they were going to get the troops ashore. Fortunately for the Americans there was no resistance, but had the Spanish managed to get just few guns in place it would have been a nightmare. They were literally doing stuff like shoving the horses off the decks of the ships to let them swim ashore - and of course, a bunch of them didn't make it. When I read that the entire planning for the Gallipoli invasion was six weeks...well, you can tell pretty quickly why things went the way they did.

Thanks Panzerde. Jim did give me a run for his money. O0 I mentioned to Jim over the weekend the Domasin battle from Red Victory - very similar in many respects. As with the Gallipoli map, it is hard to get a sense of the elevations involved, and just how hard it must have been to get up those hills. I had a look using google street view, and in both scenarios the terrain is formidable.

Churchill did an appalling job. Like you say the operation just wasn't thought out properly, with little intelligent thought, nor communication between the units.

Mind you it seems to be the case with a lot of invasions - take for example the airborne drops over Sicily in 1943 - nightmare! Even getting shot up by their own fleet! They didn't spend much time planning for that either. (Check out D'Este Sicily - Bitter Victory - which is good. It mentions a lot of other balls ups too!)

panzerde · May 03, 2015, 04:54:31 PM

Churchill did an appalling job. Like you say the operation just wasn't thought out properly, with little intelligent thought, nor communication between the units.

Mind you it seems to be the case with a lot of invasions - take for example the airborne drops over Sicily in 1943 - nightmare! Even getting shot up by their own fleet! They didn't spend much time planning for that either. (Check out D'Este Sicily - Bitter Victory - which is good. It mentions a lot of other balls ups too!)

The degree of infighting and other squirreliness described in Bitter Victory is astounding. Having said that, the Sicily campaign has been a favorite gaming topic of mine since I read it. In fact, Jim, Vance and I have a three-sided game going on using Tiller's Sicily '43 right now.

Cyrano · May 09, 2015, 10:39:14 AM

Well, Boggit's Allies did a fine job last round getting his lads ashore, but this one promises to be a big uglier...

The scenario description:

After the botched landings at Ari Burnu, north of the planned "Z Beach", the Australians quickly reorganized what they could and tried to salvage the situation by advancing to their planned objectives for the day. One such objective was Gabe Tepe, an elevated point that jutted out into the Aegean Sea, which was known to house a Turkish battery of 12.2cm and 15cm howitzers. These guns had to be taken out, but morning landings had added an additional mile to the distance that had to be covered.

As the Australians advanced south to their destination, the first sounds of machine gun fire announced that the Turks were now well awake and alert to the situation. Even though it was becoming apparent to the Australians that Gape Tepe was now out of reach, the infantry still had to try!

MISSION:

(Allied Powers) Advance south from "400 Plateau" towards Gabe Tepe in order to overrun the Ottoman artillery located there.

(Central Powers) Hold your positions and prevent any Australian breakout to the south.

NOTES:

*Historically the advance did not make it past "Bolton's Ridge", however, the Australians did take the Turkish outposts on that ridge and used them to help anchor the southern flank of the landings. This result could be considered a Draw or Allied Minor Victory here.

*Turkish 15cm howitzers are sporadically firing on this area from Gabe Tepe.

I am, first, very pleased to actually have a machine gun. I am also pleased that it overlooks an area of steep incline making its way down to the beech. That said, there's a lot of fellows in bendy hats crawling around down there and I think they mean to do me harm. One of the things I keep forgetting about the SB series -- to my loss -- is that the game models both ammo depletion and the fatigue of combat by gradually reducing a unit's effectiveness each time it fires. This is controversial to some -- there's even a mod to make it go away completely -- but I rather like it for what it does. All that by way of pointing out I'll keep my powder dry and wait for his lads to get a bit closer before beginning to hose them down.

The battlefield at the start of the nine-turn scenario:

Wikipedia has a good account of the whole battle (this is the earlier bit referenced in part of the article):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lone_Pine

And the battlefield cemetery near the top of the titular Lone Pine feature:

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

panzerde · May 09, 2015, 10:57:08 AM

Boggit · May 09, 2015, 11:27:24 AM

My early observations are this...

Jim is in a strong position in the centre with twice the troops he had at our last encounter approximating a company, plus an MG setup to annihilate anyone coming in its arc. He also has some random 150cm artillery support. Hopefully, it will scatter, but it is big and nasty enough to hurt. The exit points are a long way from my start positions, and with all the rotten terrain before me I'll be going some to get there within the 9 turns available. I probably don't need that many units to exit to get a win, but it really is a big ask, as I will be asking my guys to run exposed all the way when a pin or disrupt (not to mention) troop death will mess up a very tight schedule. Attacking the ridge directly involves covering a lot of open ground, and with Pasha Jim's boys being dug in will also be difficult as an number of adequate LOS positions are mainly at the extreme edge of my rifle range, which creates a problem for any sizeable base of fire in effective range to support an attack. I really do wish I had some mortars!

So what to do? Flanking the position is a must, since Jim needs to guard against being flanked, so must commit at least some of his force to stop me. If he doesn't I have a whisker of a chance to exit some units, which will make the difference for victory. Let's see what happens...

Boggit · May 09, 2015, 11:35:18 AM

Quote from: panzerde on May 03, 2015, 04:54:31 PM

Churchill did an appalling job. Like you say the operation just wasn't thought out properly, with little intelligent thought, nor communication between the units.

Mind you it seems to be the case with a lot of invasions - take for example the airborne drops over Sicily in 1943 - nightmare! Even getting shot up by their own fleet! They didn't spend much time planning for that either. (Check out D'Este Sicily - Bitter Victory - which is good. It mentions a lot of other balls ups too!)

The degree of infighting and other squirreliness described in Bitter Victory is astounding. Having said that, the Sicily campaign has been a favorite gaming topic of mine since I read it. In fact, Jim, Vance and I have a three-sided game going on using Tiller's Sicily '43 right now.

If you get another going let me know. I have Sicily '43, and really like it. It is the sort of game system that would work really well multi-multi player. With say half a dozen players a side it would be really interesting. (Then again, that is probably true for any Tiller PzC game). How are you handling higher command directives in the game?

I bought d'Este's book after reading the game notes, and it describes a woeful state of affairs with the Allied planners. The one good thing is that they seem to have learnt a lot from the experience re Normandy. It's a pity they couldn't engage their brains a bit better, rather than learn from the dead bodies of what were rather predictable outcomes.

Cyrano · May 09, 2015, 11:46:52 AM

Sicily '43 has a scenario that's specifically billed as a race between Monty and Patton for Messina -- it even has a mountain range dividing line to keep the two no-goodniks apart -- and is intended to be played 3-player.

All the PzC games -- frankly all the Tiller games -- are brilliant MP. A bunch of years ago, some friends and I got together for an 8-player Midway. We broke down the commands too much -- one fellow wound up commanding just the submarines (which he actually enjoyed) -- but there was real elation in the other room when the IJN found us before we found them...

Boggit · May 09, 2015, 12:03:02 PM

I used to play Tiller games a lot at the Blitz Wargaming Club http://www.theblitz.org/index.php O0 but stopped after we moved house, various personal issues etc. I found them a lot of fun. It looks like they've repainted their website too - very nice. :) I've only really been getting back into MP fairly recently - largely Sauron's fault and a few others - over the last year or so, but I am enjoying it a lot. I should perhaps revisit the Blitz, but I'm quite glad we Grogs are getting our games together too.

Boggit · May 09, 2015, 12:13:49 PM

Well here is my turn. I traded a few shots with Pasha Jim from the heights, and have a platoon or two making the long trip down to those exit hexes - good luck boys... you'll need it. Crikey, those exit hexes are a long way away, and moving 1-2 hexes in rough terrain, the only way I have a chance is to go sprinting over the open ground... :o I've shown the bottom half of the map so you can see where they are - 9 turns in this scenario - I hope Jim has the variable ending option selected in the optional rules!

This makes me think about what I am asking those platoons to do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Ankn-AzC4 Only I won't ask them to go in with the bayonet - such stupidity. :(

panzerde · May 09, 2015, 12:14:23 PM

Quote from: Boggit on May 09, 2015, 12:03:02 PM
I used to play Tiller games a lot at the Blitz Wargaming Club http://www.theblitz.org/index.php O0 but stopped after we moved house, various personal issues etc. I found them a lot of fun. It looks like they've repainted their website too - very nice. :) I've only really been getting back into MP fairly recently - largely Sauron's fault and a few others - over the last year or so, but I am enjoying it a lot. I should perhaps revisit the Blitz, but I'm quite glad we Grogs are getting our games together too.

Any time you want to try some Tiller, SoW or CM PBEM let me know. I'm honestly finding it tough to stay engaged playing SP anymore. Not that Pasha Jim doesn't keep me in games almost single handedly, but it's always nice to have different opponents to learn from. Like Jim, I have games from multiple Tiller series, so it doesn't just have to be WW2.