Russia's War Against Ukraine

Started by ArizonaTank, November 26, 2021, 04:54:38 PM

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Gusington

^Yeah I thought that too, because of the fuel 'spill.'


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

MengJiao

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on March 20, 2023, 03:16:57 PMPoland would be the aggressor in this case based on their rhetoric.  I'd hope my country would say "thanks but we'll sit this one out" but our normally dovish PM is quite the hawk in this specific instance.  It's all very strange.

  It might be a way to pressure other western powers to send more gear to Ukraine since the prospect of Poland going rogue isn't necessarily all that appealing to say France or Germany.  "Send more stuff to Ukraine or we will have to go after the Russians down there." 

FarAway Sooner

Cultural/historical payback question for you all:  If the Poles wanted to mount a False Flag operation in Belorus, would they do it using soldiers dressed in German uniforms or Russian uniforms? 

Or would they just deposit dead bodies dressed in the uniforms of both countries?

Sir Slash

Or would they use their own uniforms to really throw everybody off? My personal pick would be Putin's Topless Cavalry unit he designed himself with the 75mm nipples.

I could see Poland joined by other east European countries intervening in a certain conquest of Ukraine by the Russkies. Nobody east of Berlin wants a return of the Warsaw Pact.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

GDS_Starfury

generally speaking, that would be very bad.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

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Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

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Windigo

Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 20, 2023, 11:25:22 PMgenerally speaking, that would be very bad.

I agree. Although Poland is eager to bonk some heads, they are not unaware of the complications.

I am wondering out loud if any of you hard core have wargamed a Polish advance into Belarus?
My doctor wrote me a prescription for daily sex.

My wife insists that it says dyslexia but what does she know.

MengJiao

Quote from: Windigo on March 21, 2023, 10:02:51 AM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 20, 2023, 11:25:22 PMgenerally speaking, that would be very bad.

I agree. Although Poland is eager to bonk some heads, they are not unaware of the complications.

I am wondering out loud if any of you hard core have wargamed a Polish advance into Belarus?

Since Ukraine seems to be tearing the Russians to pieces, I have my doubts that any current commercially
available war games can be seen as reliable indicators of how various events might play out on the battlefield.
I'm sure there's a COIN version of Europe under Polish rule with cards where Poland deals well with Belarus
coming soon on VASSAL, though.

FarAway Sooner

Given the fog of war, I think it's hard to tell exactly how the Ukrainian War is going right now for either side.  All we know for sure is that the Russians are taking heavy casualties, but that's almost a given in any military conflict involving the Russian Army if they're fighting an opponent vaguely on par with them.

Consider, their greatest patriotic victory in the last 2 centuries came in WW2, when they sustained twice the military fatalities of the Germans, in addition to dreadful civilian casualties.  I'm not aware that Russia has lost a war due to manpower problems in a few centuries now...

As you suggest, trying to wargame an Army that hasn't fought a war in recent decades is problematic at best.  All we can conclude about the Russians for sure is that they can't occupy a country one-third their size so long as it has reasonable bankrolling from wealthy neighboring states.

MengJiao

Quote from: FarAway Sooner on March 21, 2023, 11:46:54 AMGiven the fog of war, I think it's hard to tell exactly how the Ukrainian War is going right now for either side.  All we know for sure is that the Russians are taking heavy casualties, but that's almost a given in any military conflict involving the Russian Army if they're fighting an opponent vaguely on par with them.

Consider, their greatest patriotic victory in the last 2 centuries came in WW2, when they sustained twice the military fatalities of the Germans, in addition to dreadful civilian casualties.  I'm not aware that Russia has lost a war due to manpower problems in a few centuries now...

As you suggest, trying to wargame an Army that hasn't fought a war in recent decades is problematic at best.  All we can conclude about the Russians for sure is that they can't occupy a country one-third their size so long as it has reasonable bankrolling from wealthy neighboring states.

I have to admit I'm still shocked that the Russians could not just overrun Ukraine in a couple of weeks.
Until I see a good boardgame that can convincingly represent that failure by the Russians, I have my doubts about
how to imagine what would happen if Poland went after Belarus and Russia.  I'm guessing it would not be pretty, but just for whom and how much -- I have no idea at all.

Skoop

The thing with Belorus is there's growing dissention toward the putin puppet.  The Belos aren't far off from staging protests like the Georgians the past week.  Not to mention all the volunteer battalions full of Belos fighting with Ukraine.   

Jarhead0331

Russian Marines assault on the outskirts of Vuhledar. That artillery around the 6:30 mark is landing dangerously close.


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Semper Grog
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ArizonaTank

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"The Flying Dutchman"
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Windigo

Quote from: MengJiao on March 21, 2023, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on March 21, 2023, 11:46:54 AMGiven the fog of war, I think it's hard to tell exactly how the Ukrainian War is going right now for either side.  All we know for sure is that the Russians are taking heavy casualties, but that's almost a given in any military conflict involving the Russian Army if they're fighting an opponent vaguely on par with them.

Consider, their greatest patriotic victory in the last 2 centuries came in WW2, when they sustained twice the military fatalities of the Germans, in addition to dreadful civilian casualties.  I'm not aware that Russia has lost a war due to manpower problems in a few centuries now...

As you suggest, trying to wargame an Army that hasn't fought a war in recent decades is problematic at best.  All we can conclude about the Russians for sure is that they can't occupy a country one-third their size so long as it has reasonable bankrolling from wealthy neighboring states.

I have to admit I'm still shocked that the Russians could not just overrun Ukraine in a couple of weeks.
Until I see a good boardgame that can convincingly represent that failure by the Russians, I have my doubts about
how to imagine what would happen if Poland went after Belarus and Russia.  I'm guessing it would not be pretty, but just for whom and how much -- I have no idea at all.

Hmmmm, take their combat values and divide by 3?
Give the UAF +2 morale?
Remove 1/2 of Rus command units?
Arty is good, airforce is good.



My doctor wrote me a prescription for daily sex.

My wife insists that it says dyslexia but what does she know.

Windigo

Quote from: ArizonaTank on March 21, 2023, 03:52:11 PMM1 Abrams news.  Ukraine will get them sooner, but older versions.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-speeds-up-abrams-tank-delivery-to-ukraine-war-zone/ar-AA18TFKc?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1ee4053d506a40bca8362137cb4691e1&ei=26

Better to have some older variants than none of the newer ones.
To be honest I am surprised the M1s aren't across the pond already.
My doctor wrote me a prescription for daily sex.

My wife insists that it says dyslexia but what does she know.

MengJiao

Quote from: Windigo on March 21, 2023, 05:03:00 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on March 21, 2023, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on March 21, 2023, 11:46:54 AMGiven the fog of war, I think it's hard to tell exactly how the Ukrainian War is going right now for either side.  All we know for sure is that the Russians are taking heavy casualties, but that's almost a given in any military conflict involving the Russian Army if they're fighting an opponent vaguely on par with them.

Consider, their greatest patriotic victory in the last 2 centuries came in WW2, when they sustained twice the military fatalities of the Germans, in addition to dreadful civilian casualties.  I'm not aware that Russia has lost a war due to manpower problems in a few centuries now...

As you suggest, trying to wargame an Army that hasn't fought a war in recent decades is problematic at best.  All we can conclude about the Russians for sure is that they can't occupy a country one-third their size so long as it has reasonable bankrolling from wealthy neighboring states.

I have to admit I'm still shocked that the Russians could not just overrun Ukraine in a couple of weeks.
Until I see a good boardgame that can convincingly represent that failure by the Russians, I have my doubts about
how to imagine what would happen if Poland went after Belarus and Russia.  I'm guessing it would not be pretty, but just for whom and how much -- I have no idea at all.

Hmmmm, take their combat values and divide by 3?
Give the UAF +2 morale?
Remove 1/2 of Rus command units?
Arty is good, airforce is good.


  I guess, but what options did the Russians have that they didn't manage to bring into play?
How did the fact that the Ukrainians seem to have been back from the borders for various reasons have
effects if any?  And what about Russian logistics (which seem to have fallen apart right away) and
command confusion and electronic warfare problems etc. etc.?