War in the east 2 coming soon

Started by Grim.Reaper, February 17, 2021, 09:43:35 PM

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bobarossa

SC and Warplan are strategic games whereas WITE2 is an Operational game blown up all out of proportion.  I would suggest getting Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa for your War in the East fix if you have not played monster/complex games before.  As far as WITE2 goes, I love what they did to logistics and Command Points (may have name wrong there) but hate what they did to the air war (I have WitW but have never played it).   

acctingman

Quote from: bobarossa on May 20, 2021, 09:03:45 PM
SC and Warplan are strategic games whereas WITE2 is an Operational game blown up all out of proportion.  I would suggest getting Decisive Campaigns Barbarossa for your War in the East fix if you have not played monster/complex games before.  As far as WITE2 goes, I love what they did to logistics and Command Points (may have name wrong there) but hate what they did to the air war (I have WitW but have never played it).

I actually prefer the western theater to the eastern theater, but I have Decisive Campaigns on my "to-do" list before I jump on WitE2.

Destraex

"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993). When we started developing War in the East in 2000 we wanted to make an IGOUGO game because we wanted to make a slightly more accessible game that had the turn to turn addictiveness of IGOUGO games like Panzer General. We liked the idea of the "just need to move one more unit" feel that games with continuous movement/combat phases can have. We felt this would be fun, especially in the making of pockets. This was also our homage to the old SPI War in the East boardgame from the 70s (the first monster game and one of my favorites). Clearly WitE is more complicated than Panzer General, but despite all the complexities, we enjoy hearing some of the posts of new players that point out that it's really not that hard to pick up WitE and start moving and attacking and having fun with the game. That was the idea. There's tons of things to be learned in order to play the game well, but at it's heart the game has a simple concept.

BTW, yes, we started WitE in 2000 but had to shelve it several times as we worked on other projects (including War in the Pacific, a WEGO game) until we finally got back to it seriously in 2008. This is why it didn't come out until 2010."

This disturbs me greatly. Sounds like they dumbed it down for new players while admitting that it was complex anyway. They wanted the player to essentially sacrifice realism for what is a graphical experience. I get it at the same time as thinking they just needed to work of the way the WEGO turn played... like combat mission so you can rewind and see whats going on to your hearts content or just slowing the turns down, making them a little more graphical.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

bobarossa

I would pretty much disagree in the entirety.  I would not say that making WITE IGOUGO was dumbing it down.  You can't really call games this large a "one more turn" experience.  Turns take way too long.  IGOUGO games provide instant feedback that keeps people playing.  The problem I have with WITP is that it takes so long to issue orders for a turn that the fun (turn execution) is too far away to keep me interested.  In addition, week long turns take away as much 'realism' from WEGO games as IGOUGO since it is saying that the enemy can't react to your moves in less than a week.  This is the same argument people use against WEGO games.  Some of this is mitigated in WITE by the automatic reinforcement with support units and sometimes divisions by the HQ units during battles.  Do WEGO games allow for this instant reaction (I really don't know since I rarely play them)?

W8taminute

Whether a game is WEGO or IGOUGO if it takes centuries for the turn to execute I won't play. 

One of my lamentations I had when playing WITE 1 was the moment I was ready to hit the end turn button I would look up at the clock.  If I saw that I had the ten minutes necessary to wait until it was my turn again I would hit end turn.  But woe to me if The Wife came in and said I need you to help me with something that's going to take an hour or so.  All the fun I had in the 45 minutes or so that I spent playing my turn and then to wait another 10 for it to execute vanish immediately the moment The Wife butts in. 

If I knew the turn would process in less than 2 minutes I would tell the wife I'll be right there and then quickly save the game after the turn executes. 
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

Pete Dero

I'm still learning this game, but so far all I can say is this really is a masterpiece of programming.

I you want you can play this game by moving some counters on a map.  But if you care for it you can check how much damage the machine guns on tanks caused.

solops

PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill
Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

Rayfer

Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.

I'd have to agree to disagree.  Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working.  Curious as to what others think.

Pete Dero

Quote from: Rayfer on July 04, 2021, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.

I'd have to agree to disagree.  Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working.  Curious as to what others think.

A computer can handle it.  I'm not sure the human player can on this level.
For this type of game I think I prefer IGOUGO.

Rayfer

Quote from: Pete Dero on July 04, 2021, 01:08:05 PM
Quote from: Rayfer on July 04, 2021, 12:36:03 PM
Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 10:45:47 AM
PCs were invented so that we could finally have WEGO wargames. To design games otherwise is the worst sort of failure, bigger than even endless DLCs.

I'd have to agree to disagree.  Yes, in some instances WEGO is great, but with the massive size of the full campaign in WitE2...I just don't see it working.  Curious as to what others think.

A computer can handle it.  I'm not sure the human player can on this level.
For this type of game I think I prefer IGOUGO.

Interesting take.....I agree.

solops

#115
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill
Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

Atilla60

Quote from: solops on July 04, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.

It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.

I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
- Sir Winston Churchill -

Atilla60

Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).

That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
- Sir Winston Churchill -

bobarossa

#118
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).

That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn.  I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.

Atilla60

#119
Quote from: bobarossa on July 04, 2021, 05:17:42 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on July 04, 2021, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: Destraex on June 09, 2021, 09:08:58 AM
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).

That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn.  I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.

Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
- Sir Winston Churchill -