Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Skoop]

Would you feel the $40 Billion was well spent if a big chunk of it went into a crew of rich people's pockets instead of weapons to defend Ukraine? Or if a lot of those weapons ended-up in the hands of terrorists planning the next attack on NYC? Can anyone say for certain that they won't or haven't? I certainly hope we don't only have CNN & MSNBC looking into this.

Your going to have to show some proof there with accusations like that.  Also the corruption worry was addressed in the spring.  I seem to remember Rand Paul making a stink about fiscal accountability cause that's his big thing.  This lead to a pentagon appointed funds zsar per say who over sees the allocation of where that money goes.

I remember this vividly, because Ukrainian generals were complaining that this delayed the deployment of key weapons like the himars for a month.  At the time this was a big deal as this was when Russia was inflicting big ground and pound artillery casualties on Ukraine and the mad dash to counter the threat.

[Jarhead0331]

I don't believe there is any evidence of real malfeasance with the military aid sent to date. However, there isn't a lot of oversight, partially because we don't have people on the ground in Ukraine to monitor. So, with such a massive amount of aid, the potential for diversion is there.

I think it's clear based on the destruction of the Russian military that so far the bulk of the weaponry is being used to kill Russians, and no one else.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-billions-going-to-ukraine-officials-warn-of-potential-for-fraud-waste-11655121601

[Pete Dero]

I know it is far from over and nothing is decided yet, but who believed 8 months ago Ukraine could be where they are today ?

And yes this is in no small part thanks to the military and non military support from the US.

[Uberhaus]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-europe-government-and-politics-weapons-inspections-4adab5d918690a569e396ce385c34348

WASHINGTON (AP) — A small number of U.S. military forces inside Ukraine have recently begun doing onsite inspections to ensure that Ukrainian troops are properly accounting for the Western-provided weapons they receive, a senior U.S. defense official told Pentagon reporters Monday.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide a military update, would not say where the inspections are taking place or how close to the battlefronts the U.S. troops are getting. The official said U.S. personnel can't do inspections "close to the front lines," but said they are going where security conditions allow.

The official said there have been several inspections, and they are being done by the U.S. Defense attache and the U.S. Office of Defense Cooperation team that is in Kyiv. So far, the official said, Ukrainian officials have been transparent about the weapons' distribution and are supporting the inspections.

[GDS_Starfury]

AmIright?   :DD

[Uberhaus]

What! No pictures of the Superbonker 9000?

[GDS_Starfury]

pretty sure I posted that many many pages ago.
#NAFO

[Uberhaus]

pretty sure I posted that many many pages ago.
#NAFO

It's so great it should be posted everyday!

[FarAway Sooner]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-europe-government-and-politics-weapons-inspections-4adab5d918690a569e396ce385c34348

WASHINGTON (AP) — A small number of U.S. military forces inside Ukraine have recently begun doing onsite inspections to ensure that Ukrainian troops are properly accounting for the Western-provided weapons they receive, a senior U.S. defense official told Pentagon reporters Monday.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide a military update, would not say where the inspections are taking place or how close to the battlefronts the U.S. troops are getting. The official said U.S. personnel can't do inspections "close to the front lines," but said they are going where security conditions allow.

The official said there have been several inspections, and they are being done by the U.S. Defense attache and the U.S. Office of Defense Cooperation team that is in Kyiv. So far, the official said, Ukrainian officials have been transparent about the weapons' distribution and are supporting the inspections.

That's a very positive sign.  As I recall, we had similar fact-finding missions in Afghanistan.  Such is the price of having allies in cultures that we can't fluently navigate.

I spent two years building NGO funding networks in Southeast Asia.  While you can often get a sense for who's making better use of the resources you give them, it is more art than science.  And it's often a process of "six steps up, five steps back".   Even when done in peacetime.

That's not intended as a knock on SE Asia, just a testimony as to how easy it is for big institutions to divert or misuse resources.  Heck, the same thing happens in The Pentagon today, and in theory, they answer to us and to Congress as well as the President!

[Skoop]

After being burned in Vietnam and Afghanistan twice, I get the accountability requests.  But we also have to know when it's apples and apples versus apples and oranges comparisons.  Ukraine is not Vietnam or Afghanistan.  Ukraine is the UK in 1940 Battle of Britain or 1960 / 70s Israel to me but maybe not to some of you.

[Gusington]

^I can see the UK comparison...maybe not as desperate as the UK in 1940, but close.

I waver back and forth on the importance of this war to me sitting in New York and the grand scheme of the international order. I personally care about it because of my ethnicity/ancestry and because it is just crystal clear to me that Russia needs to be spanked, even though I do understand some of their arguments about NATO encroachment.

If I lived in Finland, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Bulgaria or Romania I would not waver at all, it would be crystal clear. The incompetence of the Russian military has also helped me step back from panic. Then I think about Russia's 1000s of nukes and get generally nervous again.

All that said it's hard to gauge if this war is the beginning of a new dangerous era or the last gasp of the 20th century.

[JasonPratt]

"Why not both?" gif meme here.  :hide:

[Gusington]

^You're probably right  :pullhair:

[Sir Slash]

I never claimed money and weapons weren't getting into the right hands so you pull that out of your ass. What I said was how do you know if it is or is not? You don't. Because there is virtually no accountability to determinate it. " Senior U.S. Defense Official" who only speaks anonymously that a small number of U.S. military forces is on top of this is hardly credible as accountability. If you're OK with that, then send the Ukrainians YOUR money, I'd like to keep as much of mine as possible, even as radical as that idea is.

I'm sure the administration that didn't mind throwing away all that money, effort, and weapons in Afghanistan....will do a much better job of managing things this time.

[GDS_Starfury]

enjoy the links.

https://hoaxlines.org/the-database/claims-the-us-isnt-auditing-aid-to-ukraine-are-pants-on-fire-false