https://twitter.com/i/status/1772548669272723954
Horrible. Some reports are saying the ship may have lost power.
Hopefully they will be able to quickly recover more bridge workers from the water.
The port will be blocked until the collapsed spans are cleared.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-68663071?src_origin=BBCS_BBC
QuoteHow will the bridge collapse impact shipping?
Katy Austin
Transport Correspondent
Container shipping expert Lars Jansen describes what's happened as a "major disaster" which will "create significant problems on the US East Coast for US importers and exporters".
On top of some 21,000 units of cargo having to go through other ports in the region, he says "multiple merchant vessels are now trapped in the port of Baltimore". None are container ships but there are some bulk carriers.
Jansen says he cannot remember hearing of an event like this before.
He says it will be a big issue for shipping in the region, leading to some delays and added costs. However from a global perspective, it will not have a significant impact.
Quote from: steve58 on March 26, 2024, 08:14:58 AMHorrible. Some reports are saying the ship may have lost power.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-68663071?src_origin=BBCS_BBC
QuotePosted at 8:438:43
Dali 'lost propulsion' before hitting bridge
An unclassified memo from the government agency CISA - the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency - has confirmed that the Singapore-flagged vessel Dali "lost propulsion" and collided with "a supporting tower of the bridge".
who knew there were so many bridge and marine propulsion experts online today... :buck2:
I saw it on Telegram last night and honestly thought it might be a fake post with ArmA graphics at first.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/watch-huge-bridge-baltimore-collapses-after-container-ship-strike
Supply chain snarls from the bridge collapse. I actually don't think it will be that bad after a couple of days. A lot of the cargo can be re-routed to other east coast ports.
As far as ship engines going out. Loss of steerage or engines in not uncommon in ships. That is why USN ships have the special sea and anchor detail when engaged in sailing in periods of limited maneuverability (UNREP, coming into/out of port, etc). We had both emergency steering and an anchor chain detail in case we lost steerage or engines during these periods. I assume merchants have something similar, but even that may not help if the loss occurs at the exact wrong moment.
Another view of the collision and collapse.
https://twitter.com/Brick_Suit/status/1772550706584596751
Quote from: Tripoli on March 26, 2024, 01:55:34 PMhttps://www.zerohedge.com/markets/watch-huge-bridge-baltimore-collapses-after-container-ship-strike
Supply chain snarls from the bridge collapse. I actually don't think it will be that bad after a couple of days. A lot of the cargo can be re-routed to other east coast ports.
As far as ship engines going out. Loss of steerage or engines in not uncommon in ships. That is why USN ships have the special sea and anchor detail when engaged in sailing in periods of limited maneuverability (UNREP, coming into/out of port, etc). We had both emergency steering and an anchor chain detail in case we lost steerage or engines during these periods. I assume merchants have something similar, but even that may not help if the loss occurs at the exact wrong moment.
No idea if this is right, but the guy in the video below, says there is evidence that the anchor was dropped before impact, but that the ship "dragged" it.
Some of those trucks on the bridge had like 5-10 seconds before the may day call and then impact :shocked:
Here is a comparison of the GPS track compared to the video. Interesting. Looks like the DALI lost power at pretty much the worst possible time. My read of this is that the crew didn't have time to take adequate action to stop the collision.
Aren't the bottoms of such bridge pillars/posts normally made of concrete?
I don't think I have seen another bridge where the metal structure goes down into the water.
pretty sure its concrete, the main problem with the bridge was that it didnt have bumpers.
How many crew are on a ship like that now?
Quote from: Gusington on March 26, 2024, 08:49:22 PMHow many crew are on a ship like that now?
I recall hearing that there were 22 onboard the M/V DALI. Regarding the piers: Apparently, the FS Key bridge was completed in 1977, before these large containerships were in use, so it didn't have the bumpers that are now state of the art. The question as to why they weren't retrofitted will be fascinating, I'm sure.
Regarding the dropping of the metal structure: some commentators say that the pier that was hit was one of the major structural support piers. I'm not a bridge expert, but it seems that having a major structural support near the shipping channel is one of those things you would try to avoid, if possible. From a design standpoint, it may not have been possible in this case. For a bit of historical analogy, in 2002, the I-40 bridge in Oklahoma was dropped by a barge hitting it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster
Here is (in German) a report on the bridge with comments from one English and one German structural engineers. Basically they echo what was said above. You wouldn't build the bridge like this anymore, but in 1977 that was OK.
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/baltimore-warum-ist-die-bruecke-eingestuerzt-und-was-weiss-man-ueber-das-containerschiff-a-a9b0409f-b823-48cc-830e-f1a3c34d265d
There is a suggestion that it may have been contaminated fuel that caused the power loss. I'm not sure I agree that is a likely reason. My reason for this opinion is that the presence of contaminated fuel should have been detected both by the port (if the contaminated fuel was brought onboard) or by the crew before ever departing port. At least in the USN, we did fuel quality checks (going off of memory here) every 12 hours underway, and it was part of the checklist before any restricted maneuvering situation (such as entering/leaving port). The checks are not that difficult, and I'm sure that doing the checks would be part of the regulations for merchants. https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/baltimore-container-ship-crisis
Am disappointed, came here for the conspiracy theories...
RIP, the bridge work crew.
The actual conspiracy theories floating around out there are crazy.
Quote from: Gusington on March 27, 2024, 11:24:26 AMThe actual conspiracy theories floating around out there are crazy.
It is very sad, but probably inevitable in today's climate.
The conspiracy theories I have seen are crude and sick attempts at political "pokes in eye," to put more points on the board for one political tribe or the other.
'Sad' is a great way to put it.
"It's f#$@ing picturesque, is what it is."
https://x.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1772595364706627696
^The picture in that tweet really gives a horrible sense of scale to this.
Some NTSB drone footage
https://twitter.com/boston25/status/1773185402062446866
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1773733488295882896.html
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 29, 2024, 04:21:02 PMhttps://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1773733488295882896.html
Better to be the knucklehead who calls in what turns out to be a false alarm than the a-hole who doesn't call in the one that turns out to be real.
100% that could have been so much worse.
opps
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKDPisnXYAAA1iQ?format=jpg&name=large)
a good start
US Army Corps of Engineers develops tentative timeline to reopen Fort McHenry Channel following Key Bridge collapse
https://www.army.mil/article/275139/
After reading the article about opening the channel, I got curious about a related problem that I haven't seen anything about (well, haven't looked for, really). So I'll be lazy and depend on you folks to point me in the right direction.
What about replacing the bridge? And what traffic problems is its loss causing in and about Baltimore? I don't even know where the bridge went to and from. What happened to my daily commute if I regularly used the bridge?
I'm much more interested in the answers to those questions rather than "how are we going to help those poor shipping companies?"
There is the harbor tunnel which I always used to get through that area instead of the bridge when visiting family further down in MD. It must be handling the majority of the traffic but it must still be...unpleasant.
Yeah, from the communications it seems they don't worry about road vehicles at all. We all work from home now, right?
Another cargo ship loses power, this time near the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/another-massive-cargo-ship-loses-control-while-leaving-an-american-harbor
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence.
It's fortunate that there were extra tugs available to bring the cargo ship under control. I would imagine that all ports are standing up extra resources for the transit of such massive vessels.
The Verrazano, fortunately, is very different from the bridge in Baltimore in how it is constructed.
from my reading of the subject matter, most harbors keep tugs on the big ships as routine because their power losses are more common then we would expect.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 08, 2024, 10:43:55 AMfrom my reading of the subject matter, most harbors keep tugs on the big ships as routine because there power losses are more common then we would expect.
In my experience, power losses on ships occur "not infrequently". I was on the USS BLUE RIDGE (LCC-19) when it was without power for about 12 hours in the middle of the Pacific. I"ve seen rudder failures and "dropping the load" for much shorter occasions several times on other ships
the main channel has been cleared and ships are moving out! :ThumbsUp: