Tabletop Gaming and Costs

Bison · February 26, 2016, 10:19:09 AM

Is tabletop gaming pricing prohibitive to attracting new or younger audiences? I think Fantasy Flight Games and a few others are examples of companies whose business model is one that may be prohibitive to attracting potential gamers into their systems. I know for example a few people who'd like to try a game like Star Wars X-Wing, but that costs just stop them from even making an initial purchase. Not because the basic box is overly expensive, but if you want to expand your collection it gets costly very, very quickly. And it seems like this true for many other companies too. Thoughts?

Nefaro · February 26, 2016, 10:28:41 AM

Only from certain companies and/or product lines.

I mean - if someone plans on picking up the whole Imperial Assault line, even in this early stage, it will already cost them hundreds of dollars for the full range.

But there are quite a few affordable, yet fun, options.

As an example, I just saw the latest printing of last year's solitaire game Hostage Negotiator, which has been pretty popular and received many good reviews. The core game is $23 at CSI.

It's all about comparison.

You can find many high quality tabletop games, with impressive components, for $50 or under. Compare that to all the A-list video games from large publishers coming out, which cost $50 to $60. And that's for a digital download - no physical product at all! If anything those digital game sales, which have no extra production costs or overhead, are priced very high compared to what you get for a modern designer tabletop.

Bison · February 26, 2016, 10:35:30 AM

Well you'd have to know about your options too. An Xbox/PS4 has shelf space at Walmart and most computer gamers use Steam and the sales, but non-Monopoly style tabletop gaming isn't the same. Sure Target carries a few Euros, but otherwise there's nothing. That's the attracting new customers part. I'd think someone would take a risk on Imperial Assault if they can manage to get over the $100 price tag of the starting box only because they love Star Wars. Call it Space Soldiers or something unfamiliar and I don't think it has the same appeal.

Nefaro · February 26, 2016, 10:39:30 AM

Quote from: Bison on February 26, 2016, 10:35:30 AM
Well you'd have to know about your options too. An Xbox/PS4 has shelf space at Walmart and most computer gamers use Steam and the sales, but non-Monopoly style tabletop gaming isn't the same. Sure Target carries a few Euros, but otherwise there's nothing. That's the attracting new customers part. I'd think someone would take a risk on Imperial Assault if they can manage to get over the $100 price tag of the starting box only because they love Star Wars. Call it Space Soldiers or something unfamiliar and I don't think it has the same appeal.

Well.. that's a different can of worms, regarding marketing and visibility as opposed to simply cost.

Although tabletop games have obviously been on the up over the past few years, they'll never surpass the simple ease of use inherent with digital gaming. Many people plain hate reading instructions for anything, much less manuals. So the majority of people, even if they were up for getting into gaming, still just want others to teach them how instead of doing it on their own.

mirth · February 26, 2016, 10:59:28 AM

The Star Wars PocketModel TCG was pretty cool and relatively inexpensive. I have a good assortment of them stashed away and need to break them out for the kids. It's a perfect intro level game and it's too bad it was discontinued.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_PocketModel_TCG

I have a lot of the Pirates PocketModel stuff too. Again, a great entry level game that wasn't too expensive.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/10653/pirates-spanish-main

Bison · February 26, 2016, 11:05:15 AM

I think even if someone wanders into a game store and is unfamiliar with board gaming the price is prohibitive, because they aren't familiar with the game or perhaps even tabletop gaming the price is then a detractor. It's $60 for a box and cardboard essentially. Kid wants X game. Parent goes to store if X game is even avalable and is $60 for a book or a box. I'd bet there is a WHOA! factor that is there for a non-gamer that is prohibitive, unless it's a birthday or Christmas type gift. I think that's why MtG and Pokemon are successful, because an occasional $3 or $4 purchase at Walmart is not an issue comparatively.

mirth · February 26, 2016, 11:13:34 AM

I don't think a lot of non-gamer parents wander into game stores. It's still too niche of a market. People who go to game stores are looking for specific products and are likely knowledgeable about the costs.

I don't think pricing is the gateway to entry for table top gaming. It's a niche hobby that doesn't the broad appeal of other hobbies.

Having any board games on the shelves of a mass market retailer like Target is something of a miracle.

bayonetbrant · February 26, 2016, 11:29:57 AM

Quote from: mirth on February 26, 2016, 11:13:34 AMHaving any board games on the shelves of a mass market retailer like Target is something of a miracle.

The average board game purchaser at Target/Kmart/Walmart is a 40-60yo woman buying it as a gift.
Those folks only know the "classics" - Monopoly, Scrabble, etc - and are buying something for a nephew or neighbor who "likes games" and they have no understanding of anything beyond those basics.
It's nice that TTR and Catan are available at Target, but the average purchaser at those stores doesn't know what they are.

Additionally, $60 on a board game vs $60 on an Xbox game: which one gets you more hours of playtime? And with who? The answer will vary from person to person, but it's a valid comparison that more people should make.

mirth · February 26, 2016, 11:32:32 AM

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 26, 2016, 11:29:57 AM
It's nice that TTR and Catan are available at Target, but the average purchaser at those stores doesn't know what they are.

Oh, I agree.

Bison · February 26, 2016, 11:48:46 AM

Quote from: mirth on February 26, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 26, 2016, 11:29:57 AM
It's nice that TTR and Catan are available at Target, but the average purchaser at those stores doesn't know what they are.

Oh, I agree.

I know when I bought TTR that I was comfortable with the price, but the wife was like WTF? She grew up with Monopoly and Risk type games. Mass produced and cheap. She initially didn't understand that there was good value to the game. To her there is was no difference except the price. Cheaper is better in that case.
I think of the old D&D red box. It was not only a more affordable, but accessible option. It was designed for a younger audience and allowed you to grow into the hobby. I think these days games are more designed with a customer base that already has a fairly decent disposable income level and is older.

I'd hazard a guess that many tabletop gamers moved to video games because of access of playability. You don't need a group to play a computer RPG or local group to play an MMO. And if it's about the hours then for most people computer is going to be better even if the costs are relatively the same.

Rekim · February 26, 2016, 09:22:37 PM

The most popular Fantasy Flight Games that I see played at community gaming groups include Elder Signs, Hey That's My Fish and Citidels. These titles cost $34.95, $12.95 and $24.95. Those prices are not cost prohibitive.

I checked the collections of 4 avid gamers that I know locally, they number 356;137;131;332. I think it's fair to generalize and say that cost isn't a big issue with those who are indoctrinated and have some disposable income.

IMO the OP's point is most applicable to miniatures, which all know are money sinks. I can't imagine there are many gaming virgins out there that pop their cherry on miniatures...or expensive niche wargames for that matter. Although I must admit noticing a trend in the ASL community where a significant percentage of new players seem compelled to buy up every piece of ASL gear that can be had before getting serious about playing.

Bison · February 26, 2016, 10:25:31 PM

I'm sure that many people buy a base game like Elder Signs and don't pick up the expansions and have a lot of fun with it. I just think that the gaming companies have moved their target audience toward people with disposable incomes, which is understandable but in some ways it's gotten out of hand. $15-$100 for a mini in X-Wing is not accessible to a wide audience, but it's a huge name and has a good following but they exclude the younger audience. If they had packaged 10 pawn/pog ships in the starter kit and sold the actual minis on the side, it would have made the game more affordable and expansive for a beginner and still many will by the actual mini to replace the pawn eventually.

It's to the point for some games to be in 100's of dollars just to play with the base game and a few expansions. It's not really a grip so much as I wonder if it doesn't perpetuate the niche of the industry even more so by excluding many would play and buy but the cost is too much to even start playing knowing that you need to drop another $100 more if you want a more full experience. And yes minis are a money sink for sure.

Silent Disapproval Robot · February 27, 2016, 02:02:40 AM

This hobby is ridiculously expensive. I got back into tabletop gaming a little over a year ago and I've already spent more now than I have on PC games in the last 5 years combined. Kind of weird when you think about it as board games are far more inconvenient. Not only do you have to worry about all the components and rules, you also have to try to find an willing opponent and then find a time and place to play which usually entails driving somewhere. Bloody irritating, especially when they decide they don't care for the game and want to play again.

I found that to be the case with a number of games that I'd like to play as I tend to be the groggiest of the group at any of the 4 local game stores I frequent. I bought Wing Leader for $70 and have only played the physical game twice. I've got a lot more play out of it against Barthheart on VASSAL than I have through the physical copy. Same with Bomber Command. I've played the physical game maybe half a dozen times. The hobby can definitely be frustrating at times.

Bison · February 27, 2016, 09:58:11 AM

^ That's true too.

Rekim · February 27, 2016, 07:50:55 PM

I know it can be a bitter pill to swallow when the desire is strong to see the hardware on the table, and to push towering stacks of pretty counters you so meticulously punched and trimmed...but VASSAL is the solution to most of the issues that plague wargamers who want to play games with opponents. Once you turn the corner the opportunities increase exponentially <my experience> and the many benefits (no travel, reduced setup, zero table space requirements, all players have access to the game setup in between sessions) will help you to forget about all that cardboard you left on the shelf. Besides, you still require the rules/playbook/CRT from the physical game in order to play online.