40k Custodes - Who here has a neckbeard? According to PCGamer you may be.

[GDS_Starfury]

For the record I do not have a neckbeard. But I do love me some 40k. Maybe on a more casual level, but I still do love it.

what does your 5 o'clock shadow identify as?

[undercovergeek]

I think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here

Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer

As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all

[solops]

I think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here

Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer

As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all

+1
And i would note that plants are people, too.

[JasonPratt]

It's just lazy, and being imposed by stockholder requirements. Instead of introducing a creative narrative reason that this has started happening (like revising the backstories for the Necrons and Eldar), GM opted for "always were female Custodes."

In fact there had been for a while, the Sisters of Silence. But that wasn't good enough, I guess?

It could make sense enough: these are high ranking children of nobles being put through the process; although the genetic modification steps still seem to be based on originally male genetic material, so... isn't that why the Sisters of Battle (Adeptas Soroitas) can't be Space Marines? But they do very respectably well with what they can do (and narratively tend to overcompensate, which is good dramatic coloring.) So this is basically saying, hey, all you who like the Sisters, surprise, they could have been real Space Marines the whole time and always could have been, but aren't for no reason, so there?

Again, it's just sloppy for depressing reasons, to please people who don't really care about the franchise property as such (like Blackrock and Vanguard).

And i would note that plants are people, too.

People who like to go WAAAAAGGGHHH! 

My favorite humorous comment on one of the video threads I've seen, is that Tyranids have been predominately 'female' for a while, and no one cares!

[Gusington]

At the end of the day, as grogs, don't we just want everyone to stfu and go away anyway? As long as people play nice who really cares. I do recognize the value of balance that JH is talking about above in addition to what 'Geek mentioned but as I age...I just want everyone to stfu, calm down and chill. Go have an edible or something. I am at the end of me caring about the entire 'us vs. them' dichotomy, which this boils down to basically.

'Can't we all just get along?'

[undercovergeek]

At the end of the day, as grogs, don't we just want everyone to stfu and go away anyway? As long as people play nice who really cares. I do recognize the value of balance that JH is talking about above in addition to what 'Geek mentioned but as I age...I just want everyone to stfu, calm down and chill. Go have an edible or something. I am at the end of me caring about the entire 'us vs. them' dichotomy, which this boils down to basically.

'Can't we all just get along?'

In a way that was the essence of my post - on the flip side of your peace and harmony everywhere is my I don't care what you're doing as long as it's over there

But occasionally my piss boils when I read in a few comments sections that there are people who don't even know what the franchise is never mind the lore who are just jumping on the woke wagon as it rumbles by - 'there's something without women in it?????'

By their own admission they've never played, never will, but it's there to be protested against so protest they must

I hope one day they put all their energy into something they truly don't understand that is so deplorable and despicable to be a part of just so they can say there now were included and then go - fuck!

Something like stars men only mankini wearing painting and decorators club

[JasonPratt]

At the end of the day, it isn't going to affect me in the slightest if I want to fire up the original EA Space Hulk on DosBox, or the latest build of Ultimate Apocalypse on Soulstorm, or finally catch up with that fleet management game I've owned since whenever, or any of the umpteen 40K games I own. It's just intrusive for no good organic lore reason. Like if I bought 25% of GW stock and insisted they start introducing actual trinitarian Christian theology into their cosmology instead of only borrowing its bling for flavor: fans (even the significant number of Christian ones!) would rightly complain that I should save that for my own fanfic.

That said, I was listening to orthodox hymns from various cultures while working on project quotes this morning, and suddenly realized the most important and epic "neckbeards" in the actual game lore would VERY MUCH INSIST that Adeptas Sororitas are not and cannot be Astartes. With literal flaming of dissenters as heretics.

[W8taminute]

I think what W8 is talking about is "the bigger picture". There are all these small cultural battles being waged and viewed independently, many of them seem irrelevant, petty or meaningless. But when added together and viewed as a whole, it can look quite disconcerting to many and feel overwhelming.

 

You understand me well.

[Jarhead0331]

I hope one day they put all their energy into something they truly don't understand that is so deplorable and despicable to be a part of just so they can say there now were included and then go - fuck!

You mean, like "Queers for Palestine"? 

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

'Can't we all just get along?'

*throws brick at Gus.*

[al_infierno]

I think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here

Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer

As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all

What doesn't make sense about this is why diversity and inclusion is this self-evidently abhorrent thing that must be "kept out" of a gaming space. Is play time really ruined because GW decided one faction is slightly more diverse?  Or if the shoe was on the other foot, would anyone be here crying the blues because a faction became less diverse? I doubt it.

At what point does the topic of diversity go from "it's OK to accept women and queer people in our hobby" to "oh my god, this is FORCED WOKE ISM and play time is ruined!"  Because to me it seems entirely arbitrary.

[W8taminute]

you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

This is key to why I get so upset about this stuff.  Can't I be left alone to enjoy my toy soldiers in peace and quiet?


Also, forgive me for mentioning this, but remember, the enemy seeks to kill, steal, and destroy.  This is but one small example of that manifestation.  See, although I don't play WH40K miniatures, I'm still upset by this issue.  I got angry and let the enemy win with respect to his desire for destruction.  But I do enjoy playing my games and if I had some plastic toy soldiers I would play with them as well despite my middle age. 

I think a lot of gamers just want to be left alone and allowed to play their games in peace sans the controversies of this stupid real life.

[undercovergeek]

I think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here

Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer

As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all

What doesn't make sense about this is why diversity and inclusion is this self-evidently abhorrent thing that must be "kept out" of a gaming space. Is play time really ruined because GW decided one faction is slightly more diverse?  Or if the shoe was on the other foot, would anyone be here crying the blues because a faction became less diverse? I doubt it.

At what point does the topic of diversity go from "it's OK to accept women and queer people in our hobby" to "oh my god, this is FORCED WOKE ISM and play time is ruined!"  Because to me it seems entirely arbitrary.

People are still entitled to make a choice - play games that include diversity, play games that don't

But the people that chose to play a game that didn't which is well within their right have now had the rules changed, lore changed and game changed to make sure the game without diversity they chose is now been made to include it because some people think they shouldn't get to a play a game that doesn't include it

[al_infierno]

I think to a certain degree it has nothing to do with female space marines and more to do with meeting up with your friends at a club or a garage and getting away from all the shit that compulsory diversity and woke-ism brings in an average working day and all the other crap that comes with real life because you've come to play soldiers to get away from all that and here in the microcosm of 40k it didn't exist and it was you and your army and your friends and now it's invading that bit of peace and quiet you had from the world

Don't get me wrong - I'm neither for or against - you do you over there and I'll do me over here

Like the vegans of this world - you can do that and I'll eat meat but don't be a dick and stand outside my restaurant calling me a flesh eating murderer

As I get older I realise the best most peaceful form of inclusivity is not to include any fucker at all

What doesn't make sense about this is why diversity and inclusion is this self-evidently abhorrent thing that must be "kept out" of a gaming space. Is play time really ruined because GW decided one faction is slightly more diverse?  Or if the shoe was on the other foot, would anyone be here crying the blues because a faction became less diverse? I doubt it.

At what point does the topic of diversity go from "it's OK to accept women and queer people in our hobby" to "oh my god, this is FORCED WOKE ISM and play time is ruined!"  Because to me it seems entirely arbitrary.

People are still entitled to make a choice - play games that include diversity, play games that don't

But the people that chose to play a game that didn't which is well within their right have now had the rules changed, lore changed and game changed to make sure the game without diversity they chose is now been made to include it because some people think they shouldn't get to a play a game that doesn't include it

"I specifically chose this game because it's not diverse, and the wokies ruined it by adding women" is a VERY bizarre way to frame your position on this issue.  It's pretty much just dancing around the explicit argument that Warhammer SHOULD only be men (or straight or white or what have you) and any deviation from that is "against lore."

Like, if that's your take on the whole thing fair enough I guess, but you understand how that's not exactly beating the "sexist neckbeard" allegations, right? 

[Jarhead0331]

There are clearly two perspectives here and I think its come to the part where guys on both sides are going to start talking past one another, so we're probably past the point of crossing over into RP territory.

That being said, if you guys want to continue the discussion and can continue to do so civilly, I'm willing to let the thread remain open. That means not suggesting that people who are against the change, regardless of their stated rationale, are "sexist neckbeards".