Horrible. Thoughts and prayers for the officers and families.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/dallas-police-officers-killed.html
Unbelievable.
Spoke to a relative who came over from Ireland in the late 60s.
He compared this to the IRA rage against the british in Ulster. If people feel they are being systematically treated unfairly, the rage builds until it explodes. Some always take the anger to violence.
Certainly not good. :(
This will just encourage jittery and trigger happy cops.
Sadly believable -- surprised it hasn't happened already. :'(
Quote from: jomni on July 08, 2016, 07:24:33 AMThis will just encourage jittery and trigger happy cops.
Yep. And encourage copycats.
Prays to those officers and their families.
This follows two police shootings of two black men in two different states over the last couple of days.
One talking head made the comment this morning that they don't think this was spur of moment reaction, but that those that did this had been preparing for awhile, and used the two shootings by police earlier as a catalyst for them to act. We'll see if that holds true.
Quote from: besilarius on July 08, 2016, 06:44:12 AM
Spoke to a relative who came over from Ireland in the late 60s.
He compared this to the IRA rage against the british in Ulster. If people feel they are being systematically treated unfairly, the rage builds until it explodes. Some always take the anger to violence.
Speaking as someone who as a child grew up in Northern Ireland, I'll say that this justified comment, particularly with respect to the Northern Irish weighted voting regime, and other civil rights granted to Protestants, but not Catholics. Of course in the late 60's this was addressed by reforms to make the system fair, but by then the damage was done with both sides left feeling aggrieved.
Even today there are strong views on the matter, on both sides (I have family from both sides of the argument) even though things have moved on beyond recognition. My view is at least both sides are talking together, even if it is not always a happy marriage. Perhaps over time the wounds will heal. I hope so. :)
For those with any interest in it, this isn't a bad potted history of it...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/recent/troubles/the_troubles_article_01.shtml
Quote from: mirth on July 08, 2016, 04:24:19 AM
Horrible. Thoughts and prayers for the officers and families.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/dallas-police-officers-killed.html
+1
Right now the Political Elite are twisting themselves into pretzel shapes to blame this on guns. And next the radical left will try to justify this cowardice by saying the perps were driven to this violence not by those who have been railing against the police, but by the evil of 'White Privledge'. Meanwhile the what, 62 young black men shot in Chicago last weekend by other young black men don't even deserve a mention.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 08, 2016, 10:10:00 AM
Right now the Political Elite are twisting themselves into pretzel shapes to blame this on guns. And next the radical left will try to justify this cowardice by saying the perps were driven to this violence not by those who have been railing against the police, but by the evil of 'White Privledge'. Meanwhile the what, 62 young black men shot in Chicago last weekend by other young black men don't even deserve a mention.
QFT.
News media and the victimhood establishment will attempt their best to vocally twist this to their advantage. It's what they always try to do.
In the meantime, those who still have bullshit detectors will end up smelling the droves of shit they'll be heaping on us for months to come.
Quote from: Boggit on July 08, 2016, 09:02:15 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 08, 2016, 04:24:19 AM
Horrible. Thoughts and prayers for the officers and families.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/dallas-police-officers-killed.html
+1
+1 :(
Shooter identified as Micah Xavier Johnson, possibly a US Army Veteran (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/07/08/breaking-dallas-gunman-has-been-identified-n2190007).
info about the shooter
http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/micah-xavier-x-johnson-dallas-police-shooting-sniper-gunman-shooter-suspect-name-identified-photos-facebook-video/
Interesting point in the article.
the police originally mis-identified a guy as a "person of interest"
http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/dallas-police-shooting-suspect-photo-black-man-gunman-sniper-shooter-picture-twitter-name/
He was exercising his right to open carry during the march.
As soon as the shooting started, he handed over his weapon to law enforcement so he wouldn't be suspected or implicated.
And it was caught on video, showing how law-abiding citizens can react in a positive way in a crisis.
Very sad.
It's now being reported that it was just the single gunman.
What I can't believe is that the media is actually reporting that gunman wanted to 'kill whites'...I guess the truth had to come out some time.
Well, according to the media we are evil.
Quote from: mirth on July 08, 2016, 05:17:58 PM
Well, according to the media we are evil.
Humans taste like candy to us devils.
Thus my shock that CNN and NBC are reporting that the gunman was specifically targeting whites. The NYTimes was not - but two out of three ain't bad.
I have seen a lot of good messages coming from unlikely sources too...like Snoop Dog (of all people) appearing with and hugging LAPD cops, and people at the Dallas march thanking cops for saving them, and people claiming that just because they are anti police violence does not make them pro violence against police.
Maybe I am just getting soft.
Quote from: Gusington on July 08, 2016, 05:49:07 PM
I have seen a lot of good messages coming from unlikely sources too...like Snoop Dog (of all people) appearing with and hugging LAPD cops, and people at the Dallas march thanking cops for saving them, and people claiming that just because they are anti police violence does not make them pro violence against police.
+++1
Bristol, TN, was one of the other places hit by a shooter yesterday, opening fire on a local highway out of anger at police shootings. (Instead of being, you know, insane and/or evil himself and looking for an excuse to shoot people. ::) )
I haven't seen that anywhere...was anyone hurt?
Newspaper driver was killed, several wounded.
These guys are selling all ballistic great to LEOs at cost right now
http://shop.tacticalshit.com
Quote from: Gusington on July 08, 2016, 05:12:44 PM
What I can't believe is that the media is actually reporting that gunman wanted to 'kill whites'...I guess the truth had to come out some time.
Kind of hard to cover it up when the Dallas police chief, who is black, states it as one of the quotes from the gun man on live TV.
It was only a matter of time. There is too much crazy going around these days. Our culture in the US is straining at the seams and will likely only continue to worsen. We are headed for widespread social upheaval.
I am conflicted on the whole anti-police narrative the media loves to harp on (which I believe fans the fire). Without a doubt police shoot people of all races and sometimes its not justified or outright murder. Young black males are being shot by police in disproportionate numbers, but they are committing crimes in disproportionate numbers too. I live in St. Louis, a city where black-on-black violence is a daily occurrence. There are many areas of the city that are preferable to avoid during the day and can be dangerous after dark. Roving bands of young black people roam the streets in those poor neighborhoods with little to no supervision. This is why the riots in Ferguson occurred (which nobody in the media dared mention). Its tough being a police officer in those neighborhoods and relations between residents and police are strained at the best of times. Couple that with the fact that most people never really try to understand just how hard a police officers job is. The job is thankless and its wears you down mentally and changes many officers for the worse. I feel any journalist who writes anything on the police should do a month of ride alongs to get some perspective.
I am just rambling at this point. I hope the cycle of violence stops, but it won't. There will be some wacko who thinks he needs to kill some black people out of revenge and we will have another mass shooting. Instead of talking to each other and respecting each others views, we are stuck in a cycle of shouting and demonizing that I can't see ending.
Now Hillary says it's our fault because we're white. Sorry Mrs. Clinton. We don't want to be white. That why we try to tan. :-\
I thought that was a great post Swatter. I was in St. Louis a couple of summers ago (before Ferguson) and was really surprised by the true segregation of the city's neighborhoods.
Is Hillary really blaming whites for being white??
Yesterday. She made the typical claim that 'Whites' need to adjust our racial attitudes to be more understanding and inclusive toward 'Blacks'. And again nothing about how many 'Blacks' were killed last weekend by other 'Blacks' in Chicago. Run for decades by her Party. And ignored for decades by her Party. My 2 cents.
I'm still waiting for a politician to say that black communities need to stop the perennial victimization and start pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. Oh and stop blaming everyone else on earth for their own problems. I'll probably be waiting forever.
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 11:58:35 AM
I'm still waiting for a politician to say that black communities need to stop the perennial victimization and start pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. Oh and stop blaming everyone else on earth for their own problems. I'll probably be waiting forever.
Not a politician but a black female cop. If you haven't seen this, it's powerful.
https://www.facebook.com/nakiajonesproductions/videos/10208712158314077/ (https://www.facebook.com/nakiajonesproductions/videos/10208712158314077/)
^Just watched the whole thing and read about it yesterday. Hard to disagree with her on many points. To add though, there are racists of all colors, not just white. I can show you a whole slew of black females that automatically consider me the enemy because I am a white male with a shaved head.
Possible copycat:
A Ballwin, MO officer shooting, yesterday, is mentioned as being a black man who was pulled over for speeding. Exited his vehicle, after the officer went back to the car in order to finish up the ticket paperwork, and shot him three times. Then took off.
Missouri Cop 'Fighting For His Life' After Being Shot in Traffic Stop, Official Says (http://www.yahoo.com/gma/missouri-police-officer-shot-during-traffic-stop-suspect-190803761--abc-news-topstories.html)
QuoteThe suspect, Antonio Taylor, a 31-year-old black man who was paroled in 2015 after serving time on a federal weapons charge, was charged with assault of a police officer, armed criminal action and a felon in possession of a firearm, St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch said Friday, according to the Associated Press.
Sounds like it may have been motivated by the TX shootings.
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
^Just watched the whole thing and read about it yesterday. Hard to disagree with her on many points. To add though, there are racists of all colors, not just white. I can show you a whole slew of black females that automatically consider me the enemy because I am a white male with a shaved head.
I don't disagree with you, especially based on my own experiences. I think each community needs to deal with their own inherent racism before things can ever get better. I respect that she was addressing her own community as well as fellow police officers and she is certainly in a place to speak to both based on her own experiences. Cops need to hold each other accountable and communities need to self-police more as part of the solution.
^Me too. I do respect a lot of what she is calling for, and that she is talking about it at all.
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
because I am a white male with a shaved head.
You have a shaved head?
Ya, the shooting in Ballwin was a couple of blocks from where I used to live.
There is real segregation in St. Louis and its a serious problem. Unfortunately, I know of no plans to actually address the situation. This is exactly why I do not support the BLM movement, because they focus on issues that are polarizing and ignore the most serious problems in poor black communities. We need unifiers, not dividers. That is exactly what the BLM movement does, divide us.
Quote from: Anguille on July 09, 2016, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 02:07:33 PM
because I am a white male with a shaved head.
You have a shaved head?
Of course. Nice and cool in the summertime. Drizzling cold rain, not so much.
Yep been shaving my head for the last 7-8 years.
Swatter the segregation was immediately noticeable to me when I was there. And I totally agree with what you're saying about BLM...could not have said it better myself.
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 08:09:02 PM
Yep been shaving my head for the last 7-8 years.
Swatter the segregation was immediately noticeable to me when I was there. And I totally agree with what you're saying about BLM...could not have said it better myself.
Been threatening my wife that as soon as the double envelopment offensive from my front and back hairline manage to meet in the middle and cut my sides off Cannae style, that I'm going to burn it all down and shave it all. She has no blinking clue what I'm talking about.
As to the whole Dallas thing, it's horrible. My father in law is a 40 year plus veteran of the Police and Sherriff's department combined with a double pension, so I absolutely get that side of it. My oldest brother in law, despite deeply hating his father for some reason, is trying to get on with the PD. I can absolutely see him going into a panic and shooting someone, he has neither the temperament or restraint to be given a firearm and be tasked with defending people. He's scared, quick to absurd action, and as much as I hate to use the word, a bit cowardly with a mix of just enough indignant arrogance to get him trouble. He is in his own mind ready to get back at his former bullies with extreme force when he has the authority. He's going to get his badge soon. I'm terrified we're going to be hearing about something he does in the near future.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 10, 2016, 12:50:34 AM
Quote from: Gusington on July 09, 2016, 08:09:02 PM
Yep been shaving my head for the last 7-8 years.
Swatter the segregation was immediately noticeable to me when I was there. And I totally agree with what you're saying about BLM...could not have said it better myself.
Been threatening my wife that as soon as the double envelopment offensive from my front and back hairline manage to meet in the middle and cut my sides off Cannae style, that I'm going to burn it all down and shave it all. She has no blinking clue what I'm talking about.
As to the whole Dallas thing, it's horrible. My father in law is a 40 year plus veteran of the Police and Sherriff's department combined with a double pension, so I absolutely get that side of it. My oldest brother in law, despite deeply hating his father for some reason, is trying to get on with the PD. I can absolutely see him going into a panic and shooting someone, he has neither the temperament or restraint to be given a firearm and be tasked with defending people. He's scared, quick to absurd action, and as much as I hate to use the word, a bit cowardly with a mix of just enough indignant arrogance to get him trouble. He is in his own mind ready to get back at his former bullies with extreme force when he has the authority. He's going to get his badge soon. I'm terrified we're going to be hearing about something he does in the near future.
Perhaps you should say something, he is not hired yet (anon of course).
Quote from: Swatter on July 09, 2016, 05:43:52 PM
Ya, the shooting in Ballwin was a couple of blocks from where I used to live.
There is real segregation in St. Louis and its a serious problem. Unfortunately, I know of no plans to actually address the situation. This is exactly why I do not support the BLM movement, because they focus on issues that are polarizing and ignore the most serious problems in poor black communities. We need unifiers, not dividers. That is exactly what the BLM movement does, divide us.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 10, 2016, 12:50:34 AM
As to the whole Dallas thing, it's horrible. My father in law is a 40 year plus veteran of the Police and Sherriff's department combined with a double pension, so I absolutely get that side of it. My oldest brother in law, despite deeply hating his father for some reason, is trying to get on with the PD. I can absolutely see him going into a panic and shooting someone, he has neither the temperament or restraint to be given a firearm and be tasked with defending people. He's scared, quick to absurd action, and as much as I hate to use the word, a bit cowardly with a mix of just enough indignant arrogance to get him trouble. He is in his own mind ready to get back at his former bullies with extreme force when he has the authority. He's going to get his badge soon. I'm terrified we're going to be hearing about something he does in the near future.
I really think that since 9/11 the expansion of law enforcement (Homeland Security, TSA, etc...) has been so great that standards have been relaxed to the point where people are being given a gun and badge who might not have made the grade 20 years ago. There have always been bad apples, but I think it's fair to ask if the proliferation of body cams and IPhone cameras is revealing what's always gone on and been covered up or if the greater numbers of LE and poor training is the culprit. I've known very good cops and very bad, scary cops. It's a lot of power to put into someone's hands and we as civilians need to support our protectors while at the same time insisting that the departments police themselves with the same vigilance they police our streets. My hearts go out to the Dallas officers and their families. Violence is not the solution.
Andrew I don't know what you can do, if anything, but I agree with Swatter...it sounds like your brother in law personifies everything that is wrong on the police side. That is exactly who we don't want as an armed peace officer. A professional cop keeps his cool no matter what...no matter what. Much easier to type that than to do it. Hell in my day to day life it is a constant struggle not to lose my mind with the family, on the road, etc.
Watching Dallas Police Chief David Brown on CNN...this guy is unbelievable in his sense of duty and responsibility, as well as his humility and clear head only days after the attack.
Not all the Dallas tragedy is bad...
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/national/crowds-line-hug-police-officers-dallas/nrttw/
Meanwhile... the Castile shooting, which was the most questionable IMO, is starting to have more light shed on the incident.
That pic of what absolutely looks to be a gun, sitting on his lap, brings up questions. Certainly looks like an automatic, despite only the top of it showing. Who the hell keeps their pistol sitting in their lap while riding in a car?! Especially when the cops pull you over!?
That and the "tail light" inconsistency makes the g/f's story more questionable. ???
Investigation Into MN Officer-Involved Shooting Uncovers Explosive Evidence
July 9, 2016 by Jenn Jacques
http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/07/09/mn-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/
After every police involved shooting there is a rush to judgement in the news media and especially social media (which the news media covers as if reaction on social media was real news). Right after the Castile shooting I read two articles about it on the ABC News web app. The first story contained, almost in its entirety, the view of events from highly biased sources from only one side. The second story was coverage of the families press conference and reported the families opinions as if they were facts. Immediately I said to myself "the media is going to get people killed".
Gone as the days of reporting just the facts. The shooting fit within a popular news media narrative that tells itself, no need for effort on the part of the media. No need for balance, no need to consider if they are actually serving the public's interest by reporting only one side of an inflammatory story.
They just can't help themselves. The victim ideology fits within their personal political narratives. The protest movement that responds strongly to these shooting also closely aligns with the own personal beliefs. Its an unstoppable train of poor journalism that has real and deadly consequences. Not to mention that the media has no idea how to properly report any story having to do with race.
Quote from: Gusington on July 10, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
Andrew I don't know what you can do, if anything, but I agree with Swatter...it sounds like your brother in law personifies everything that is wrong on the police side. That is exactly who we don't want as an armed peace officer. A professional cop keeps his cool no matter what...no matter what. Much easier to type that than to do it. Hell in my day to day life it is a constant struggle not to lose my mind with the family, on the road, etc.
Sadly, all of his above traits are very clear to anyone that knows him for five minutes, so I'd find it pretty had to imagine that his issues haven't been apparent to his admission to the Academy. These issues have had him be rejected from every branch of the armed forces thus far.
His father is a bit of an institution in the department, so he's not going to have any issues being admitted to the thin blue line club if he wants it. He's not a terrible person, I just don't think everyone is temperamentally cut out to serve on the force. I mean, I am absolutely not. I have a temper and a very low tolerance for lying and BS that I would have a VERY hard time controlling as a police officer. Heck, it almost gets me in trouble as a teacher sometimes.
I do fear there has been a lowering of standards and training that's the main undercurrent behind what's going on. Sadly, the concept of the thin blue line is making a situation where the majority of good cops are in a lot of ways fostering and protecting the bad cops. I'm close enough to people on the force to know this is pretty much just "the way it is" in a lot of departments.
To all of the above..."why let the facts get in the way of a good story?"
Not to defend the media but this morning on CNN's Brian Stelter show he did almost an hour on how social media is making things worse, exactly as Swatter posts above.
The video of the shooting in Louisiana seems way more definitive (and damning) than the Minnesota video, which is emotional but only gives her side of the narrative. I would like to know if the officer involved was wearing a video cam. I certainly hope so, seems that would clear things up quickly. In this day and age, especially where cops wearing cams vindicates them more often than not, a vest cam is becoming a vital piece of equipment.
Stefan Molyneux has a good breakdown of what's known so far and condemns the rush to judgement.
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 10, 2016, 05:26:58 PM
The video of the shooting in Louisiana seems way more definitive (and damning) than the Minnesota video, which is emotional but only gives her side of the narrative. I would like to know if the officer involved was wearing a video cam. I certainly hope so, seems that would clear things up quickly. In this day and age, especially where cops wearing cams vindicates them more often than not, a vest cam is becoming a vital piece of equipment.
Apparently the officers in Baton Rouge were wearing body cams, but I haven't heard any info come out about what they do or don't show.
Unfortunately from the two videos that have been shown, I don't think there's any definitive view of what the right hand was doing, and that's the one that really matters. He most certainly wasn't moving his left hand.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13614934_1309564665724658_7039891353523910372_n.jpg?oh=0ce15dd81d91b410b255ce6337f10dc8&oe=57F6074E)
The BLM people are calling for a lot more than that; the movement itself was inspired by a domestic cop-killing terrorist, and they regularly chant about killing cops when marching.
Quote from: Swatter on July 10, 2016, 03:22:36 PM
After every police involved shooting there is a rush to judgement in the news media and especially social media (which the news media covers as if reaction on social media was real news). Right after the Castile shooting I read two articles about it on the ABC News web app. The first story contained, almost in its entirety, the view of events from highly biased sources from only one side. The second story was coverage of the families press conference and reported the families opinions as if they were facts. Immediately I said to myself "the media is going to get people killed".
Gone as the days of reporting just the facts. The shooting fit within a popular news media narrative that tells itself, no need for effort on the part of the media. No need for balance, no need to consider if they are actually serving the public's interest by reporting only one side of an inflammatory story.
They just can't help themselves. The victim ideology fits within their personal political narratives. The protest movement that responds strongly to these shooting also closely aligns with the own personal beliefs. Its an unstoppable train of poor journalism that has real and deadly consequences. Not to mention that the media has no idea how to properly report any story having to do with race.
Absolutely.
The situation isn't improving, either.
Let statistics speak. I'll leave it to you guys to draw conclusions
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
A BLM "march" shut down the key I40 bridge over the Mississippi River at Memphis last night. The media is reporting it as a "peaceful" protest, but it dang well wasn't: they forced national traffic to stop completely, in total disregard of the rights of travel, endangering (though inadvertently) a child being transported to Memphis for a heart transplant among other things. The police had to bring gas, water, and food to motorists trapped in Arkansas with no way to continue east. (The protestors originally intended to shut down the outbound lane going west, but were blocked by police; but stymied police efforts to keep them off the bridge by swarming onto the offramp of traffic incoming from Arkansas instead.)
The mayor made sure the police protected their 'right' to shut down everyone else's rights to free travel, instead of forcing them off the bridge as a mob of criminals, which the protestors were pretty clearly trying to trigger. There are reports of the usual rhetoric of violence against police being chanted.
Mom, who's a total newshound, was surprised when I asked her this morning what she had heard about it: as of right this moment, 10:33am, she had heard nothing from Memphis news channels this morning, and not from their websites either.
FOX13 news was there -- a CBS affiliate in Richmond, VA (two whole states away) has an hour of c, b, and a footage gathered by the local Fox affiliate.
The (black) police chief helped keep the peace (in the sense of no violence between protestors and cops) by linking hands with the protestors and praying with them. He did work at trying to get them off the bridge. To put it bluntly, the crowd left around midnight to party on Beale Street. Memphis authorities assured people the situation was under control but suggested everyone stay away from downtown because things were so very under control there no reason, just because. ::)
In Georgia a druggie called 911 on Saturday and shot the responding policeman. Read that one in the paper yesterday. There were 4 (maybe 3) incidents of intentional shooting of cops over the weekend after the Dallas shooting.
Quote from: jomni on July 10, 2016, 07:43:07 PM
Let statistics speak. I'll leave it to you guys to draw conclusions
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
What a total joke. Notice how they list the number of deaths with little graphics that look almost like grave stones? Notice how every time you reload the page, the death counter ticks up??
Notice more importantly that they don't tell you how likely you are to be killed by a police officer, even if you get arrested. The chances are infinitesimal. This is typical crap journalism. I have come to my conclusion, thank you.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 11, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
A BLM "march" shut down the key I40 bridge over the Mississippi River at Memphis last night. The media is reporting it as a "peaceful" protest, but it dang well wasn't: they forced national traffic to stop completely, in total disregard of the rights of travel, endangering (though inadvertently) a child being transported to Memphis for a heart transplant among other things. The police had to bring gas, water, and food to motorists trapped in Arkansas with no way to continue east. (The protestors originally intended to shut down the outbound lane going west, but were blocked by police; but stymied police efforts to keep them off the bridge by swarming onto the offramp of traffic incoming from Arkansas instead.)
The mayor made sure the police protected their 'right' to shut down everyone else's rights to free travel, instead of forcing them off the bridge as a mob of criminals, which the protestors were pretty clearly trying to trigger. There are reports of the usual rhetoric of violence against police being chanted.
Mom, who's a total newshound, was surprised when I asked her this morning what she had heard about it: as of right this moment, 10:33am, she had heard nothing from Memphis news channels this morning, and not from their websites either.
FOX13 news was there -- a CBS affiliate in Richmond, VA (two whole states away) has an hour of c, b, and a footage gathered by the local Fox affiliate.
The (black) police chief helped keep the peace (in the sense of no violence between protestors and cops) by linking hands with the protestors and praying with them. He did work at trying to get them off the bridge. To put it bluntly, the crowd left around midnight to party on Beale Street. Memphis authorities assured people the situation was under control but suggested everyone stay away from downtown because things were so very under control there no reason, just because. ::)
"Protestors" did the same thing here in St. Louis during the Ferguson riots. Local leaders, police officials, and the media had absolutely no idea what to do. All of those people were afraid to death of being called racists by actually enforcing the law and protecting the rights of others who were not protestors. Looting was allowed all over the city and the media went far out of their way to say that those people were the exception (when that clearly wasn't the case).
I will say that I haven't heard about any looting yet. Possibly the fact that in TN non-criminals are a lot more likely to have guns, too, had something to do with that. ;) I sure wouldn't want to run riot in Memphis! -- or anywhere else in the state.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on July 10, 2016, 06:12:32 PM
Stefan Molyneux has a good breakdown of what's known so far and condemns the rush to judgement.
This guy is my hero. He strongly reminds me of my favorite philosophy professor from my school days, both in logical reasoning and appearance. This guy does the best deconstruction of climate catastrophe hysteria I have seen anywhere. His analysis of these two shooting is almost entirely spot on, although he doesn't focus enough on how the media is lazy and relies on narratives rather than investigative reporting to report stories.
+1
I like Stefan Molyneux too for the same sort of reasoning. O0
My, how the media are overdramatic. ::)
Unlike the Tianamen Square incident, Tank Man who was exceptionally brave in his protest had a good chance at the time of being killed, and who then "disappeared" after the event (read presumed dead).
Ms Evans on the other hand had little chance of being killed at the time, and much less chance of being subsequently "disappeared" by the authorities with her publicity stunt. For the media to claim a parallel is laughable. What a crock of... >:(
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-stunning-baton-rouge-protest-photo-nurse-mother-article-1.2706944
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437695/dallas-shooting-lefts-hateful-race-demagoguery-complicit
QuoteAmerica has become the least racist multiracial, multiethnic country in world history. This drives the America-hating Left crazy. That's why they manufacture fantasies such as "microaggressions" — non-racist statements that the Left labels racist, foolishness like "White Privilege," and the dangerous rhetoric of Blacks Lives Matter.
To be fair, not everything at the NYT fits that assessment, as the author himself kind-of acknowledges in a backhanded way.
QuoteJust yesterday, the New York Times published the results of a study conducted by a black Harvard professor of economics that shows that "when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias."
"It is the most surprising result of my career," said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study.
There will be a Black Lives Matter march outside my office building on Thursday evening and I may have to stay late in case things get out of hand :/
She's hawt.
What kind of nurse uniform is that? Hugh Hefner Memorial Hospital?
Grog Lives Matter!!!
I hope so.
I dig it.
Facts have long ago ceased to matter when it comes to BLM, police shootings, and race relations in general. The "black lives don't matter to police" news media narrative is in full control. If a study comes out that speaks directly against that, they truly don't care because it is an emotional narrative and not something based in logical reasoning.
Speaking as a person who has put much thought into the racial problems in my city, I can say that as each day passes and this false narrative grips and tears apart race relations, I care less and less. Each day in the poor black neighborhoods of St. Louis, young black men engage in gang-related gun battles killing each other and innocents alike. Nobody cares about that (other than the ten second news segment that marks the end of another black life). I can only imagine in cities like Chicago where you can no longer cover each individual shooting or murder due to the sheer volume, the crime segment must be nothing more than a statistical summary. Where are the protests about that?
No BLM won't register on my radar until they focus on the real problems of the black community. Just yesterday I read an article where a BLM spokesperson pushed aside criticism about their lack of focus on the much greater numbers of blacks killed by blacks, by saying that all races murder within race at high rates. Yes, very true and makes perfect sense. Yet, African Americans make up 13% of the population, but commit 50+ percent of the murders. The real world result in the disparity between population size and total murders is poor black communities where murder is common and the simple act of walking down the street is dangerous.
This is the easiest way I can explain why I oppose BLM movement: Every night on the local news I don't see police officers shooting black people. It happens, maybe several times a year. In almost every case the deceased was armed and had a long, long criminal record or was actively committing a violent crime (usually a combination of all of that). On the other hand, every single night I see news stories of gang related gun battles, gang related murders, dead bodies found in trunks (probably gang related), and various other violent and property crimes. A vast majority of these things are happening in poor black neighborhoods. Random crimes. Large bands (50-100) of roving black youths boarding metro link trains randomly attacking people. Not long before Ferguson, we had a real problem with this. It was bad at one point and most of these episodes were caught on camera. The simple fact is that our crime problems in St. Louis are not a result of the police, they are a result of poor black youths engaged in crime. Not that every crime is in poor black neighborhoods, but well more than enough to destroy those communities (which is probably the most important part).
Thanks for listening to my rants. This is all I can do to sort this stuff out in my head.
I must retract my statement that Stefan Molyneux is my hero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RVIi6M7oM
I am all for an honest conversation about race and opening doors no matter where they lead in the pursuit of intellectual honesty, but they extrapolate way too much from IQ data. I have never trusted IQ tests as a measure of a human being's full potential, but only as an indicator of certain kinds of intelligence (and they could be biased). They lost me when they stopped talking about data and began to talk about theories that more properly belong in the 19th century. The theories they discuss are far more flimsy than a house of cards.
When someone is are going to break that far from the norms of intellectual discussion, you better be supported by strong data every millimeter you step. You can't enter the territory of racial superiority in such a superficial manner.
Edit- After some research, Molyneux is full into racial superiority theories. I fully support intellectual curiosity, but he is really buying into thoroughly discredited theories. He has a sharp mind, but even smart people can make idiots of themselves and that is my final word on the subject of Stefan Molyneux.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 12, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Grog Lives Matter!!!
#PixeltruppenLivesMatter
be mindfull when you give your orders at the table or with the mouse ...even if you play Axis, Russians, or Charlie :)
...well, now that leads to an idea for political cartoons about those BLM and SJW movements and the media fallout but my artistic skill are way to bad to draw them or photoshop meme, run a humoristic fake webside, and social media accounts that has to come with 'that movement'
#orclivesmatter #OLM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fantasyplanet.cz%2Fgfx%2Fpictures_clanky%2Flotr_gal_velky_2003124840294490.jpg&hash=1e18e46a91246aad7b667e2175569fa1b80c61e0)
(affected human activists helping to organize an peacefully protest marsh forming up to speak out against slaying of T'rahylvogggosh Martulg'ur...
^-^
"Remember Travon Skull-Splitter"!!!
In Obama's Dallas speech he referred to himself 45 times.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/12/obama-mentions-himself-45-times-during-memorial-speech-for-dallas-officers/
The article claims he wrote it himself.
Obama has done a masterful job being more of a narcissist than the other Presidents during my life. Hard job to pull off.
Quote from: airboy on July 13, 2016, 10:26:16 AM
In Obama's Dallas speech he referred to himself 45 times.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/12/obama-mentions-himself-45-times-during-memorial-speech-for-dallas-officers/
The article claims he wrote it himself.
Obama has done a masterful job being more of a narcissist than the other Presidents during my life. Hard job to pull off.
He's been doing that since before his Presidency.
Pretty disgusting to hear. Listening to someone shamelessly promote himself and his initiatives at every turn makes me feel filthy for hearing it. Like a cheap local daytime commercial.
It was shameful to deliver that speech at a memorial service.
Quote from: mirth on July 13, 2016, 10:36:20 AM
It was shameful to deliver that speech at a memorial service.
Not the first time he's talked about himself during events or services for something besides himself or his job. Fairly common.
He wasn't hawt. But a hero.
I heard somebody say they didn't know there was an 'I' in 'Obama'. The other guy said, "Are you kidding? Obama's spelled with all 'I's".
...will be a nationwide event called a "Day of Rage" this Friday.
Oh. Joy. I am sure it will be a peaceful protest of dignity and reason and that pigs will fly. From a certain point of view either way. ::) :buck2:
Quote from: Scott Air Force BaseSITUATION UPDATE: Recent highly publicized police shootings have resulted in numerous protests across the United States. There have been several reports of a nationwide "Day of Rage" on 15 July declared by the hacker collective known as "Anonymous". The St. Louis Arch was identified as a potential protest site on Friday, July 15 at 6 p.m. Although these rumors do not appear to be credible, both the National Park Service at the Gateway Arch and the St. Louis Metropolitan Police have been made aware. Recommend all SAFB personnel continue to monitor the news for potential protests or criminal activity in that area during this time. Please be safe and aware of your surroundings, and please report any information that may suggest a credible concern to the authorities. https://www.facebook.com/ScottAirForceBase/posts/1110949105619596
I can't do Friday. I've got a Dental Appointment. You can't 'Rage' with cotton in your mouth.
I dunno, a lot of them sound like they've got cotton in their mouth.
"....thaaaat's racist!" ::)
(Actually it's culturalist, but I went for the joke anyway.)
mirth had already scheduled a day of rage for tomorrow. Because the new Ghostbusters release.
Quote from: bbmike on July 14, 2016, 05:29:16 PM
mirth had already scheduled a day of rage for tomorrow. Because the new Ghostbusters release.
There's going to be some serious nerd rage.
Going back to a previous not-officially-titled Day of Rage (but still basically a terrorist action), when Memphis protestors shut down the I-40 bridge over the Mississippi river?
The same thing happened this past weekend in St. Paul Minnesota, too. I hadn't even heard about it. (But then there wasn't much news report on the I-40 bridge either.)
This time it was classified an actual riot (as if, y'know, swarming over a semi-tractor trailer trying to get it to tip over and block the bridge with its driver inside didn't somehow count). Arrests were made, and charges will be filed on 46 adults and 1 juvie.
http://www.fox9.com/news/172822747-story
Mug shots purportedly from the Fox news Facebook site:
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13668837_10154327011914138_4093564672921115678_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13613366_10154327011934138_8798926887382967729_o.jpg)
Since 20K people were standing around watching, this leads to some interesting discussion of what constitutes a riot legally. :(
Is that Chris Pratt in the first row?
Yawn.
Quote from: Gusington on July 14, 2016, 07:36:55 PM
Yawn.
So you're a fan of the new Ghostbusters movie?
Moreso than I am of this Day of Rage idea.
Heh. I'm not really a fan of either.
Well, yeah it's pretty boring compared to what a few guys can do with a truck in France, no doubt. And thank God it hasn't gone that far yet. :-\
Sort of yet; Ferguson was no joke, and the same people will be involved tomorrow with a week or so of escalations. Maybe with France they'll feel like they have to compete for the attention. Normal people wouldn't but BLM activists have a habit of seizing the stage when they feel like they should have the spotlight.
Personally I hope the thread dies over the weekend with no results. O0 But the alert from the AFB near St. Louis was troubling.
The last thing this country wants is a bunch of otherwise disengaged Franco-Americans getting drunk enough to hold a 'Day of Rage'.
That's too many White People for a Black People's riot. Of course it is Minnesota so..... They all look like a bunch of Oakland Raider fans.
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 14, 2016, 03:17:28 PM
...will be a nationwide event called a "Day of Rage" this Friday.
Oh. Joy. I am sure it will be a peaceful protest of dignity and reason ....
Ey Boyz, we gotz da Waaagh! on our side, we ain't losin' ta no humies(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Forig08.deviantart.net%2Fe187%2Ff%2F2010%2F066%2F8%2Fb%2Fblack_orcs___da_immortulz_by_dorianm.jpg&hash=e047dffde92744b83c9d0cb67e69a48a55f7af01)
...OrcLivesMatter ^-^
btw "Day of Rage" sound like a new DLC for some actual warhammer games
So far no news, so yay.
The Day of Quiet, Seething Rage. ;D
Free ice cream bars for every one!
Whew- that was a close one...
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 15, 2016, 10:00:22 PM
The Day of Quiet, Seething Rage. ;D
Or any given Tuesday in the life of SDR.
well you cant divert media attention -even from the US centered US media- if there is a mayor (means an US citizens got hurt) terror attack in the land of Cheese, Bordeaux, Froglegs and which so a homie told in the schoolyard somehow had provided the stage for that cool DDay action we love from netflix and xboxgames , and a Coup in Turkey ontop
bad timing Orcs ;D
Yeah right now BLM is mad at the ISIS for up-staging their injustice, with their injustice.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 02:16:25 AM
Ey Boyz, we gotz da Waaagh! on our side, we ain't losin' ta no humies
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Forig08.deviantart.net%2Fe187%2Ff%2F2010%2F066%2F8%2Fb%2Fblack_orcs___da_immortulz_by_dorianm.jpg&hash=e047dffde92744b83c9d0cb67e69a48a55f7af01)
...OrcLivesMatter ^-^
Don't you mean Black Orc Lives Matter? :2funny:
Lots of nothing about it in the news so far. Phew.
Unless the Cleveland shootings last night as supposed to be part of it. :'(
3 officers dead in Baton Rouge
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us/baton-route-police-shooting/index.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/3-officers-dead-after-shooting-near-brpd-hq
more officers hurt
This is *not* going to end well for those going after the cops. BR is a pretty redneck town with a lot of guns and a lot of people who support the cops. If someone decides to start a race war, the numbers - and arsenals - are not on the side of the black community.
Holy f'ck.
Mod hat on C:-)
Please, keep this thread respectful and we'll keep it out of RPFW.
If it gets too testy, we'll toss it into the pit.
Horrible that a combined thread is needed for this for multiple cities.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 17, 2016, 10:32:18 AM
3 officers dead in Baton Rouge
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us/baton-route-police-shooting/index.html
http://www.wbrz.com/news/3-officers-dead-after-shooting-near-brpd-hq
more officers hurt
This is *not* going to end well for those going after the cops. BR is a pretty redneck town with a lot of guns and a lot of people who support the cops. If someone decides to start a race war, the numbers - and arsenals - are not on the side of the black community.
I know that part of town really well, too, since it's right near where my grandparents lived (back when they were alive).
There's a big park on Goodwood that I used to walk to from their house to go kick around a ball or just hang out to get out of the house for a bit.
I learned to drive a car (rather than a go-kart) in a parking lot of the Episcopal Church at Airline & Jefferson Hwy, right down the street from the BRPD bldg.
Those neighborhoods they're locking down are the ones I know best in the area.
Quote from: Gusington on July 17, 2016, 10:40:36 AM
Horrible that a combined thread is needed for this for multiple cities.
Agreed, but felt best to contain them since they'r all linked at this point.
I can understand where some of the grievances are coming from, but I'll say this - over the long run, a nationwide violent confrontation is not going to end well for the protestors; it' just basic math.
I am just wrapping my brain around the idea that this is spreading...news talking heads are saying that this ambush looked very organized. Frightening.
Quote from: Gusington on July 17, 2016, 10:53:06 AM
I am just wrapping my brain around the idea that this is spreading...
the shit really hit the fan when some
"rednecks"posse (maybe even off duty, retiered, or former cops among them) somewhere start taking out some well known local black gang homies (those with a known long criminal record but no sentence) in revenge and 'to deliver a strong message', because the President and the media don't as always in the following days....
When I read Mike's escalation hypothesis, my gut reaction was, "GREAT! WHERE DO I SIGN UP!?"
Which is the dangerous allure, of course. :(
On a better note, nearby here in central West TN some black churches (both dedicated to St. Paul coincidentally, although one is Baptist and one is CME) have been working on more peaceful demonstrations; including one recently in the small town of Medina (or maybe Milan, I forget which), which showed support for local police. The next one, in Jackson (the only metro city in West TN aside from Memphis), is borrowing the Black Lives Matter tag but combining it with All Lives Matter; and the intended point in both cases is to demonstrate cooperative solidarity by non-criminals (whether police or citizen) with each other against criminal abuse (whether police or citizen -- in other words, against gang crime, too, and the usual black-on-black violence around it). I suspect, although I don't know for sure yet, that my brother's church, located just off the court square in Jackson (and diagonally across a street crossing from the NAACP building), will be involved in it. (But he and his family will be out of state when it's going on.)
I hope things work out, although they're close enough to Memphis to potentially draw more of the kind of people who tried to tip over a semi-tractor trailer (with the driver still inside) to block a federal highway bridge overnight so they could leave to go party on Beale St. :buck2:
Cue All-Father Obama to preach the Word.
^He's speaking on this later.
I have to admit that I am personally a little more nervous than usual because I have been doing traffic/guard duty a lot this year for the Guard and mostly on my own, although yesterday I did have a partner because it was his first time working that detail.
Granted we are on an active military base (hard target) but we DO NOT have the training to respond to a random attack. I've asked my SGT and my LT to always have us paired up but have got mostly silence on it other than helping out the new guy yesterday. I do not like to think I have a target on my back.
Just venting here.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 17, 2016, 02:37:17 PM
Cue All-Father Obama to preach the Word.
With his track record on such things, it'd be best if he didn't say a damn word.
Are you armed while guarding Gus? Not trying to gin up the unease but after what happened here in Canada to Cpl. Cirillo and WO Vincent (Cirillo shot in the back while guarding a War Memorial and Vincent run down walking through a parking lot while in uniform), I'd want to be paired up and packing.
No.
The news media has created a self sustaining cycle of violence. I am sure many are secretly proud of themselves.
Quote from: Swatter on July 17, 2016, 09:55:58 PM
The news media has created a self sustaining cycle of violence. I am sure many are secretly proud of themselves.
+1
:(
I used to be able to watch Don Lemon but he is a total race baiter now.
Before my time in the Guard they were armed but it is a long story to explain how we got to this point. I am just struggling to get us assigned in pairs at this point.
Odd that in many states citizens can carry guns but the National Guard cannot. Sign of the times I guess.
Quote from: Gusington on July 18, 2016, 07:10:26 PM
Before my time in the Guard they were armed but it is a long story to explain how we got to this point. I am just struggling to get us assigned in pairs at this point.
what kind of security does a sceond unarmed man provide? ...its just another juicy target for such a crazy men on a mission
how about black face paint 'camo' on the face, neck and hands (or gloves when its cold enuf) ?
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 18, 2016, 10:06:42 PM
Odd that in many states citizens can carry guns but the National Guard cannot. Sign of the times I guess.
Gus isn't in the National Guard, he's in the State Guard. Two different organizations.
Black Lives Matter protest changed to a cookout with police (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/nation-world/national/article90286557.html)
No violence to see here O0
Congrats to Gordon Ramsay, Police Chief of Wichita, Kansas and the local BLM activists who decided to sit down, talk and break bread together instead of clashing heads.
Quote
Many praised Ramsay for holding the event, and several audience members said that in all the years in Wichita, they couldn't remember a police chief coming out in the community like this.
Here's hoping that police chiefs and BLM groups across the country take note of this and have their own sit downs.
Sorry for the mix-up. I assumed 'Guard' meant National not State. Still not allowing them to be armed seems ironic when many private citizens can be.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 19, 2016, 10:34:34 AM
Sorry for the mix-up. I assumed 'Guard' meant National not State. Still not allowing them to be armed seems ironic when many private citizens can be.
Not every state has a State Guard, so it's an easy point of confusion.
Quote from: steve58 on July 19, 2016, 08:42:38 AM
Black Lives Matter protest changed to a cookout with police (http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/nation-world/national/article90286557.html)
No violence to see here O0
Congrats to Gordon Ramsay, Police Chief of Wichita, Kansas and the local BLM activists who decided to sit down, talk and break bread together instead of clashing heads.
Quote
Many praised Ramsay for holding the event, and several audience members said that in all the years in Wichita, they couldn't remember a police chief coming out in the community like this.
Here's hoping that police chiefs and BLM groups across the country take note of this and have their own sit downs.
Good to hear not everyone is crazy, but the more "mainstream" BLM activists probably think its heresy.
Sorry yes State Guard. Some State Guards are armed...like Texas. Many are not, like NY or CA. Some fall somewhere in between, like VA.
A second soldier with me would at least put my mind at ease a little bit. Standing post alone for hours can drive you crazy.
In another time long, long ago, I worked as a Juvenile Corrections Officer on the night shift. Our mods had 15 single bed rooms or 25 double bed rooms and you had to do a bed check every 10 min.-- all night. Many nights I was alone-- all the kids were locked-up of course-- practically the entire shift. What an easy job right? Nothing's harder than working by yourself for hours on end and still trying to maintain an edge and alertness all the while when the slightest lapse or slip can end very badly for you. And I didn't have cars coming at me.
Most of the time it's cars but sometimes there is grenade practice to watch out for and sometimes they are moving a howitzer across base which can get dicey.
They won't let you have a sidearm but they let you guys have a howitzer? Are there that many mountain snow-packs in your area that need controlled avalanches?
That must be a Bitch to try and parallel park.
Quote from: Gusington on July 19, 2016, 05:59:44 PM
Sorry yes State Guard. Some State Guards are armed...like Texas. Many are not, like NY or CA. Some fall somewhere in between, like VA.
A second soldier with me would at least put my mind at ease a little bit. Standing post alone for hours can drive you crazy.
Has anyone raised the issue of vicarious liability of the State as an employer in the event that State Guard's are targeted? I'm assuming that the State as an employer, has a duty of care towards the State Guards? Given that it's not unforeseeable in the current climate that some nut might take a shot at State Guard's, isn't it reasonable to allow them side arms when in uniform off base?
We have more lawyers in the Guard than any other career type. Liability is the most often cited reason why we are NOT armed.
And the howitzer wasn't ours, it belonged to either the National Guard or regular Army, who we share the base with.
I don't know who owned the training grenades :)
I for one would feel much more safe knowing that lawyers are protecting me on weekends. And holidays too probably. Hope I don't get sued for posting this. :P Here in my hometown, we have a Redneck Militia. It's two fat, white guys in a pick-up truck with a Rebel flag drinking beer and throwing the cans out the windows at people. It's not very effective but it's cheap.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 20, 2016, 10:00:39 AM
I for one would feel much more safe knowing that lawyers are protecting me on weekends. And holidays too probably. Hope I don't get sued for posting this. :P Here in my hometown, we have a Redneck Militia. It's two fat, white guys in a pick-up truck with a Rebel flag drinking beer and throwing the cans out the windows at people. It's not very effective but it's cheap.
They're actually a franchise, I've seen several in places I've lived :P
It looks like another cop has been murdered. :(
http://www.inquisitr.com/3327010/robert-david-melton-killed-kansas-city-kansas-police-captain-gunned-down-by-suspect-after-responding-to-drive-by-shooting/
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:18:00 PM
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
WTF?!?
That could be any of several dedicated folks who work with my disabled sons. There is something wrong with that cop who fired-
"why did you shoot me?" "I don't know..." I mean, really- WTF?
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 21, 2016, 07:35:24 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:18:00 PM
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
WTF?!?
That could be any of several dedicated folks who work with my disabled sons. There is something wrong with that cop who fired- "why did you shoot me?" "I don't know..." I mean, really- WTF?
WTF is right.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 21, 2016, 07:35:24 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:18:00 PM
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
WTF?!?
That could be any of several dedicated folks who work with my disabled sons. There is something wrong with that cop who fired- "why did you shoot me?" "I don't know..." I mean, really- WTF?
Just from what I can see on the full video, the only even slight explanation I can see was that the officer might have been firing on the completely disarmed but clearly upset autistic man, and possibly hit the caregiver accidentally.
Still pretty unacceptable, especially with the officer saying "I don't know" to the question of why he felt it appropriate to fire.
The caregiver in this was doing his best to keep the man in his care safe, and put himself in the line of fire to try to deescalate the situation. Really a pretty sad situation. I'm just glad the man survived and is likely about to be due a huge settlement from the city of Miami.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:55:56 PM
I'm just glad the man survived
Me too. Multiple shots at him and he only took one in the leg. He's fortunate to be alive.
Oy vey...just what everyone needed right now. 'I don't know...' :/
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:18:00 PM
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
What the hell is the matter with those cops? Are they trying to make matters so much worse as to start a war?! :o
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 21, 2016, 07:18:00 PM
Saw this one last night.
Miami PD hasn't really come up with an explanation on this yet, but I'd wager that right now cops are pretty on edge.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/index.html
The response by the Police Chief is similar to other situations where they think the cop made a bad mistake.
It is a big country. There are a lot of stressful police situations. If this is what it appears to be, it was a bonehead decision. But in a nation of our size, from a pure probability situation, if every questionable shooting becomes national news it will seem to be an epidemic of badness.
I'm confident that the incident will be investigated and appropriate action taken. Police shootings are carefully reviewed everywhere in the USA that I know of.
Let me put this another way. If it was national news every time someone in the USA was struck by lightning it would appear that Zeus or Thor was putting a hit out on every American walking outside. The event would not be any more rare, or common without the publicity. But if reported nationally every time it happened it would seem that there is a horrible lightning epidemic.
261 people were struck and killed by lightning in the USA between 2006 and 2013. If reported breathlessly by the national press - it would seem horrible.
See: http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/resources/RecentLightningDeaths.pdf
At the risk of sounding horrible, my first thought on seeing this the other day was "OH THANK GOD NOW THEY HAVE AN ACTUAL EXAMPLE OF UNJUSTIFIED POLICE VIOLENCE!" ::) :buck2:
Not that they needed one. But actually having one must make the anti-police protestors (whether on the left or the right) feel a little better.
I heard a report that the cop was actually aiming at the other guy but missed and hit the guy on the ground with his hands up. The call was reportedly a man with a gun so they would be a little edgy to begin with.
Of the protestors focused on shootings like this one, instead of Ferguson (which turned out to be totally necessary and possibly life-saving) people might have more empathy for their cause.
Yup.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 22, 2016, 12:45:49 PM
Of the protestors focused on shootings like this one, instead of Ferguson (which turned out to be totally necessary and possibly life-saving) people might have more empathy for their cause.
Why are police using deadly force in what seem to be questionable situations? First, we need to distill the cases we talk about down to incidents that are truly concerning. The media unfortunately is narrative driven, jumps to conclusions, and inflames tensions. So, instead of making real progress in the public discussion of an important issue, we get distracted by protests, riots, and acts of violence against police.
I think the core problem is stress. The occupation brings with it unique stresses that can bear resemblance to stresses soldiers stationed in war zones experience. From what I have heard officers say, they enter each situation with the mindset that the other person might try to kill them. The implications of that mindset are profound. It is not hard to see how a really stressed out officer can enter a truly stressful situation and make poor decisions. How can society reduce the stress load on our police force and reduce this kill of be killed mindset? That is the question we need to address. This isn't about training or racist cops, its about human beings being pushed beyond their limits making poor decisions under stress.
Maybe my theory has holes, but I think there is low hanging fruit to be plucked along this line of reasoning. Lets try a pilot program that has officers working in pairs again. Lets have departmental policies that help identify stressed out officers and give them help.
Cops should never have stopped working in pairs to begin with.
Mass killing in Japan. Utter insanity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/world/asia/knife-japan-stabbing-sagamihara.html
Quote from: Gusington on July 24, 2016, 11:02:45 AM
Cops should never have stopped working in pairs to begin with.
This is the goddam truth.
One-Adam-Twelve where are you? (Reference is probably too old for most of you to get) C:-)
I remember Adam 12 and Car 54 and the Keystone Cops. All preferable to today's insanity.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 26, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
One-Adam-Twelve where are you? (Reference is probably too old for most of you to get) C:-)
We're not all snot-nosed punks.
Quote from: mirth on July 26, 2016, 09:09:00 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 26, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
One-Adam-Twelve where are you? (Reference is probably too old for most of you to get) C:-)
We're not all snot-nosed punks.
we're all different kinds of punks!
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 26, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
One-Adam-Twelve where are you? (Reference is probably too old for most of you to get) C:-)
Yeah, we also remember Squad 51 and Rampart Hospital. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fold.gif&hash=84795a126d2d2ae2464dec70f5c4a071b21b8caa)
Quote from: mirth on July 26, 2016, 05:56:52 AM
Mass killing in Japan. Utter insanity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/world/asia/knife-japan-stabbing-sagamihara.html
Well obviously Japan needs "common sense" knife-law restrictions...
Right. The Japanese have always had a problem with sharp things haven't they? I say, "Arm the old people now". I mean beside crooked walking sticks. Good thing Japan has all those tough Gun Laws to protect people. :buck2:
C:-) C:-) C:-) MOD HAT ON C:-) C:-) C:-)
Let's start a new thread for discussions of the Japanese knife attack, or drop it.
1 - it's not related to the current ongoing social violence affecting police in the US
2 - it doesn't need to be politicized into a quasi-gun control argument when we already have that thread in the other forum
MOD HAT OFF, BOWLER HAT BACK ON
#AllPunksMatter
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 27, 2016, 08:36:37 AM
#AllPunksMatter
yes, but they can matter somewhere else
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 26, 2016, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: mirth on July 26, 2016, 09:09:00 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 26, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
One-Adam-Twelve where are you? (Reference is probably too old for most of you to get) C:-)
We're not all snot-nosed punks.
we're all different kinds of punks!
Thought I should provide the context for my #AllPunksMatter, in hindsight. ;)
All charges dropped against three remaining officers in Freddie Gray case (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-miller-pretrial-motions-20160727-story.html)
That's great news.
Quote from: steve58 on July 27, 2016, 09:18:18 AM
All charges dropped against three remaining officers in Freddie Gray case (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-miller-pretrial-motions-20160727-story.html)
The day charges were announced I heard several legal analysts say the whole thing was rather flimsy. It was as we have found out. I hope Marilyn Mosby is disbarred. She bowed to the political pressure that the prosecutor in St. Louis resisted concerning the Michael Brown case. The county prosecutor, Bob McCullough, was hit with a firestorm for doing the right thing. Mosby went the opposite direction and is still receiving gushing praise from the media. We live in a crazy world.
Quote from: Swatter on July 28, 2016, 02:28:06 AM
Quote from: steve58 on July 27, 2016, 09:18:18 AM
All charges dropped against three remaining officers in Freddie Gray case (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/bs-md-ci-miller-pretrial-motions-20160727-story.html)
The day charges were announced I heard several legal analysts say the whole thing was rather flimsy. It was as we have found out. I hope Marilyn Mosby is disbarred. She bowed to the political pressure that the prosecutor in St. Louis resisted concerning the Michael Brown case. The county prosecutor, Bob McCullough, was hit with a firestorm for doing the right thing. Mosby went the opposite direction and is still receiving gushing praise from the media. We live in a crazy world.
No, the USA does not live in a crazy world - we live in a lawless world.
Obama decides that the USA does not have to enforce immigration laws - Lawless.
The IRS goes after Obama's political opponents and nothing is done to those responsible - Lawless.
The Secretary of State knowingly fails to follow the most routine security procedures and official secrets are easy to steal. Nothing done - Lawless.
Obama does not submit the C02 treaty to the Senate, but his regulators try to write rules to enforce this non-treaty - Lawless
I could go on, but I've never lived in a time in the USA where we have had the Federal Government fail to follow the law so routinely.
Not lawless... more of coming right up to the line and putting one foot over. He was a law professor at Harvard after all, you can't be surprised when he skillfully pushes the envelope.
Quote from: Swatter on July 28, 2016, 06:43:54 PM
Not lawless... more of coming right up to the line and putting one foot over. He was a law professor at Harvard after all, you can't be surprised when he skillfully pushes the envelope.
No, he's blowing right past the line. When you don't have an AG that's willing to stand up to the President, and Federal judges willing to rubber stamp those actions, then you have Lawlessness.
On a side note, I thought I heard that the DA is going to get sued by the police officers that were charged for defamation.
Quote from: Swatter on July 28, 2016, 06:43:54 PM
Not lawless... more of coming right up to the line and putting one foot over. He was a law professor at Harvard after all, you can't be surprised when he skillfully pushes the envelope.
Obama was never a law professor. He was an instructor for a short period of time. The qualifications for an actual professor and an instructor are very different.
I just stepped down from academic management. Differences between professors, tenure track, and instructors are something I know a lot about.
Quote from: airboy on July 28, 2016, 09:13:29 PM
Quote from: Swatter on July 28, 2016, 06:43:54 PM
Not lawless... more of coming right up to the line and putting one foot over. He was a law professor at Harvard after all, you can't be surprised when he skillfully pushes the envelope.
Obama was never a law professor. He was an instructor for a short period of time. The qualifications for an actual professor and an instructor are very different.
I just stepped down from academic management. Differences between professors, tenure track, and instructors are something I know a lot about.
I put my foot in my mouth, apologies.
Swatter, not a lot of people know the difference. Most people can tell the difference between graduate assistants that teach, and professors that teach. But to most people that's the only distinction. I'm a part-time instructor at Peace University, and I get called "professor" by the students all the time b/c they don't know the finer distinctions.
I thought they called you Professor because your skill constructing things from coconuts.
http://www.wwltv.com/mb/news/sheriff-normand-on-fatally-shot-17-year-old-suspect-he-s-not-the-victim-/282731497
here's the video of the shooting on surveillance cameras at the warehouse
[yt]https://youtu.be/dMKX50dxJQk[/yt]
"The suspect is not the victim"
No truer words have been said. Of course the national media will ignore this. Other things they will ignore:
-Martes' mother had 11 children.
-This is the second son she has lost to gunfire. The other son was shot in the head 3 times in what was likely gang-related violence.
Arkansas sheriff's deputy shot dead (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/10/arkansas-sheriffs-deputy-shot-dead-responding-to-disturbance-call-suspect-arrested.html) :(
Charlotte's about to explode next.
Warning NSFW language. Headphones are a must. Then again, the chick talking only know about 4 words. 5 if you separate "mother" from, well... you know
[yt]https://youtu.be/FFRIbmUb83U[/yt]
I love the yelling at the cops "I will fuck you up!"
uh, if they just shot your dad for what was supposedly nothing, what do you think they'll do to you when you *actually* threaten them
Well, Charlotte went from an evidently peaceful protest last night to a riot with at least one person shot in the head; then the police formed up. But the agitators hadn't quit when I went to bed. Mom this morning says the NC National Guard is being mobilized to break the siege.
Reuters seems to have the latest news on it I could find. No mention of the National Guard yet. Don't know where Mom got that, but her sources are usually good.
Some guy brought in by Fox News last night for counterpoint commentary while the riot was still going on, refused to regard the riot as a riot, and justified the behavior as people expressing their rights to be free from being shot by police or something like that. It was one thousand percent surreal, like he wasn't even watching the footage, but delayed footage from several hours previously about the peaceful rally before the thugs showed up.
Two nights of riot in Charlotte now. Summer heat must be down enough to be comfortable getting out for some lootin' and shootin', yo!
I had to adjust my driving plan to avoid I-85 through Charlotte yesterday.
ARNG troops deployed to help w/ traffic control, and at least one medical unit is on standby.
State highway patrol are augmenting local CMPD for street duty.
Last night's shooting was civilian on civilian, and CMPD has a decent description of the shooter, but was understandably reluctant to walk thru the crowd looking for him.
Most of the family is calling for peace, but the video above was from the victim's daughter, and there are calls for her to be charged with inciting a riot.
State law forbidding the release of body cam / dash cam footage doesn't go into effect 'til 1 OCT, and it's a shitty law anyway that'll get overturned first time it's challenged in court, but it was a hard-right legislature trying to play "shore up the electoral base" games ahead of a hotly-contested election this fall.
It's interesting to think of where all this leads. Police shootings will continue to happen as long as criminals carry guns. Something has got to give.
The police officer in the Tulsa shooting has been charged with 1st degree manslaughter.
Quote from: OJsDad on September 22, 2016, 04:44:15 PM
The police officer in the Tulsa shooting has been charged with 1st degree manslaughter.
Seems like a hasty decision designed to keep a lid on the community, considering the tox results aren't back yet. I'm generally pretty vocal about the questionable shootings and unnecessary use of force that we see videos of so often and I'm on record as saying the police need to police themselves better, but I feel the officer should definitely have the benefit of the doubt until more is known. Unquestionably, the majority of police-involved shootings are more justified than not; as someone who lives 90 minutes from Tulsa this reeks of a premature, politically driven decision.
I think the helicopter camera, and the discrepancy about the open window, had more to do with the charges than the tox screen.
The guy they shot was no angel, and had 8 open warrants out on him at the time, but from all the radio chatter, they never knew who he was during the stop.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14368835_1134863109939638_9020454046676656908_n.jpg?oh=1e01da9e86a38dd8b9555cad12029b0d&oe=586EE80F)
I mentioned the tox screen because I was thinking it would help to validate the officer's story if true, or do the opposite if he came back clean. If this goes before a jury, the tox screen and the window being up or down could well be key in a conviction or not. Watching the video, I find myself wondering if the guy was moving towards his car and "assuming the position" when he was shot or was he indeed starting to reach inside? There looks to be reasonable doubt either way.
I saw the videos a few times and I have the impression the shooting was not justified. The man was not armed and was not engaged in a physical confrontation with the police officers. He was not in the act of committing a crime. Trying to justify the use of deadly force in this instance is going to be a tough hill to climb for the officer. Just because the suspect was perhaps putting his arms down or reaching for the car window is not justification to shoot. The guy might be reaching for his wallet or turning around to put his hands on the roof in an act of submission. I am not saying he was, but those things are possible. The officer must have a reasonable fear that his or her life is in danger. I don't think she was acting reasonably.
Granted, the suspect bears a great deal of the responsibility for what happened here. He was not following lawful commands and was tasered. Perhaps he was high and acting irrationally, I suppose we will find out. It sucks that police must make these decisions and a split second error can land you in prison. At the same time, holding the police accountable for wrong decisions that result in death is an essential duty.
This is one of the few shootings recently that I can sympathize with people if they felt like protesting. I personally think that police relations in poor black communities is a symptom of a greater problem and not the problem itself. People should be protesting the core problems with poor African Americans, their time would be much better spent in that pursuit.
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14449927_1154718637921468_5973825819152592407_n.jpg?oh=08de579afedf295ce32b1a5fe2a1664d&oe=587848D3)
Quote from: Swatter on September 22, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
I personally think that police relations in poor black communities is a symptom of a greater problem and not the problem itself. People should be protesting the core problems with poor African Americans, their time would be much better spent in that pursuit.
I'm pretty sure that most in the BLM movement, as well as the great majority of SJW's would consider you a racist for even mentioning the inherent problems of most poor black urban communities. They haven't figured out that you can't fix problems when you won't even admit that they exist.
That's the reason that the BLM narrative can so thoroughly dominate the media, if you disagree they call you a racist and most people don't want to deal with that. In fact, they have done a great job of painting all white people as racists and forcing them to prove they are not racist as a default.
Quote from: Swatter on September 23, 2016, 02:35:18 PM
That's the reason that the BLM narrative can so thoroughly dominate the media, if you disagree they call you a racist and most people don't want to deal with that. In fact, they have done a great job of painting all white people as racists and forcing them to prove they are not racist as a default.
Just throwing my .02c of comments in for what it's worth.
My wife is of Jamaican decent and she admits to being a little skittish of cops here in Seattle after everything that has happened.
I don't want to minimize your wife's feelings, because lord knows my wife never accuses me of that. Has you wife been personally treated unjustly by police?
One of my favorite programs on the History Channel was Engineering Disasters. On each program they examined several spectacular engineering failures that resulted in some catastrophic event. The program would say over and over again that these disasters were never the fault of any single cause in isolation. These disasters were caused by several flaws that in isolation of each other were not fatal, but when combined caused disaster.
I think I can extend this analogy to almost all police shootings that have made the media in the last few years. People are not killed because of their skin color, but because they do things that in combination that put themselves in danger of being shot.
Lets take the Tulsa shooting, one that I think was unjustified. His skin color was a factor I would argue. This is one factor, but not enough to get him killed. There was his height and weight, which by itself makes him more of a threat than the average Joe. Again, not enough to get killed. Then this guy was not following lawful police commands. With these factors, the chances of disaster increase. Then the dominoes started falling quickly when the guy started walking back to his car, making a police confrontation a certainty. Now the chances of disaster are getting much higher. Add the final element, the recent police assassinations and how on edge police are these days. You might even add to that the guy may have been intoxicated.
Any one of these things happening in isolation doesn't result in the guy getting killed. I think the moral of the story is this- don't act like an idiot around police. Change the skin color of the victim in this case, given those same circumstances, you are still having guns pointed at you and are being tasered. If you ignore the police and begin walking back to your car, you are going to have a bad day, regardless of your skin color.
"People should be protesting the core problems with poor African Americans."
I totally agree Swatter. I am waiting for someone brave enough to come out and say that in public. There have been little peeps here and there. Charles Barkley comes to mind "we have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps" etc.
Until the gangsta mystique is crushed and the welfare state disassembled, these things will continue to happen. I don't think every black person is a gangsta and not every black person is on welfare. But a certain amount of personal accountability has to exist. And that goes for people of every race. No one is ever held accountable for their own actions any more...everyone's a victim.
F that.
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14462964_1154976034562395_4390181782460438185_n.jpg?oh=725abc076e27dc9042b75919b008a26b&oe=5874B1C8)
Snort
hahaha
'Funny 'cause it's true'
-Homer
"everyone's a victim"
Yep!!! Except for white males, of course. We are the oppressor of everyone else on Earth. You would think my morning schedule would be more full with all of the oppressing I do.
Me as well because I have a shaved head.
Also - all 'white people' are exactly the same, there is no ethnic/religious/national difference between any of us. Just a giant white void, we are.
Hey now! Charlemagne and his Frankish cops oppressed my Batavian and Frisian ancestors!
My Norman and other Viking ancestors oppressed my Saxon and Angle ancestors who oppressed my Celtic ancestors who oppressed my.. um.... ..... elvish ancestors? Two or three or four levels of invasion before the Celts. Pretty sure my Saxon and Angle ancestors were oppressing each other, too.
Don't get me started on my Irish ancestors. I'm just lucky an ex-slave came along and helped convince them all to give up slavery.
I am German/English, two of the greatest oppressors in history. Luckily I'm also Irish so I drink to forget about it. ;)
My ancestry is non-oppressive Canadistan :-[
^I am offended by that.
;D
Story in the Wall St. Journal and other places that US murder rates are up 10%. First big increase in two decades on year over year data.
In Charlotte they identified the gun possessing the DNA and fingerprints of the shot man as being stolen. The guy who stole the gun has admitted to selling it to the victim of the shooting.
So the police accounts seem to be accurate. Black guy had a gun out, refused orders to drop it and got shot. Rioters burned and destroyed property.
In Tulsa the cop has been charged with Manslaughter.
The news media in the Charlotte case is acting much as they did in the Michael Brown case. There was an initial narrative put out by people close to the suspect which turned out not to be true. By the time the truth begins to emerge, neighborhoods are already burned down. This anti-police narrative has reached the point of hysteria. I read a post on Quora about a black skinned person wanting to visit the US, but afraid to because they didn't want to be beat and harassed by police.
On the other hand, I think the Tulsa shooting was an example of an unreasonable use of force. This shooting is one of the few true examples of a police officer acting rashly based on skin color (at least partially).
That was a woman killing a man. That's been legal since 'The Burning Bed'. :coolsmiley:
1) this is not a joke; it's actually happening
'Clown Lives Matter' march planned for Oct. 15 in Tucson (http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/clown-lives-matter-march-planned-for-oct-15)
2) best quip I've seen yet: "I wonder if they're all going to show up in the same car?"
I heard something on Fox News as I was passing by this morning, but have been too distracted to find confirmation yet. What I heard, was that 4 police officers were shot over the weekend, in what seemed like a coordinated strike. :(
Anyone else heard about that?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 06, 2016, 07:52:12 AM
1) this is not a joke; it's actually happening
'Clown Lives Matter' march planned for Oct. 15 in Tucson (http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/clown-lives-matter-march-planned-for-oct-15)
...well, now that leads to an idea for political cartoons about those SJW movements and the media fallout but my artistic skill are way to bad to draw them or photoshop meme, run a humoristic fake webside, and social media accounts that has to come with 'that movement'
#orclivesmatter #OLM (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fantasyplanet.cz%2Fgfx%2Fpictures_clanky%2Flotr_gal_velky_2003124840294490.jpg&hash=1e18e46a91246aad7b667e2175569fa1b80c61e0)
(affected human activists helping to organize an peacefully protest marsh forming up to speak out against slaying of T'rahylvogggosh Martulg'ur... ^-^
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 21, 2016, 09:47:05 AM
I heard something on Fox News as I was passing by this morning, but have been too distracted to find confirmation yet. What I heard, was that 4 police officers were shot over the weekend, in what seemed like a coordinated strike. :(
Anyone else heard about that?
There was one in San Antonio with a detective getting shot in front of police HQ on a traffic stop.
Another in St Louis was apparently a "pre-emptive strike" where a suspect in an earlier crime ended up sitting next to a uniformed cop in traffic and was afraid he'd be recognized and tried to shoot the cop first. He was later killed in a shootout w/ police when they finally caught up to him.
if there are others, I don't know about them.
http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/alton_sterling/article_209c1f62-33c7-11e8-a2c8-179ff7c92a3f.html
some interesting numbers in here
https://www.federalcharges.com/police-shootings-in-america/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/baltimore-police-stopped-noticing-crime-after-freddie-grays-death-a-wave-of-killings-followed/ar-AAzXVbt?ocid=sf
QuoteWhat's happening in Baltimore offers a view of the possible costs of a remarkable national reckoning over how police officers have treated minorities.
Starting in 2014, a series of racially charged encounters in Ferguson, Missouri; Chicago; Baltimore; and elsewhere cast an unflattering spotlight on aggressive police tactics toward black people. Since then, cities have been under pressure to crack down on abuses by law enforcement.
So has the U.S. Justice Department. During the Obama administration, the department launched wide-ranging civil rights investigations of troubled police forces, then took them to court to compel reforms. Under President Donald Trump, Washington has largely given up that effort. "If you want crime to go up, let the ACLU run the police department," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said at a gathering of police officials in May.
Whether that scrutiny would cause policing to suffer – or crime to rise – has largely remained an open question.
In Baltimore, at least, the effect on the city's police force was swift and substantial.
Police typically learn about crime in one of two ways: either someone calls for help, or an officer sees a crime himself and stops to do something. The second category, known among police as an "on-view," offers a sense of how aggressively officers are doing their job. Car stops are a good example: Few people call 911 to report someone speeding – instead, officers see it and choose to pull someone over. Or choose not to.
Millions of police records show officers in Baltimore respond to calls as quickly as ever. But they now begin far fewer encounters themselves. From 2014 to 2017, dispatch records show the number of suspected narcotics offenses police reported themselves dropped 30 percent; the number of people they reported seeing with outstanding warrants dropped by half. The number of field interviews – instances in which the police approach someone for questioning – dropped 70 percent.
"Immediately upon the riot, policing changed in Baltimore, and it changed very dramatically," says Donald Norris, an emeritus professor at the University of Maryland Baltimore County, who reviewed USA TODAY's analysis. "The outcome of that change in policing has been a lot more crime in Baltimore, especially murders, and people are getting away with those murders."
Police officials acknowledge the change. "In all candor, officers are not as aggressive as they once were, pre-2015. It's just that fact," says acting Police Commissioner Gary Tuggle, who took command of Baltimore's police force in May.
Tuggle blames a shortage of patrol officers and the fallout from a blistering 2016 Justice Department investigation that found the city's police regularly violated residents' constitutional rights and prompted new limits on how officers there carry out what had once been routine parts of their job. At the same time, he says, police have focused more of their energy on gun crime and less on smaller infractions.
"We don't want officers going out, grabbing people out of corners, beating them up and putting them in jail," Tuggle says. "We want officers engaging folks at every level. And if somebody needs to be arrested, arrest them. But we also want officers to be smart about how they do that."
^ This is what happens when you let leftists in the judiciary systematically attack police departments.
Even a casual examination of crime statistics (especially violent crime) finds that young males, especially young black males are much more likely to be offenders than other demographic groups. Logically, police focus their attention on young males, especially black males.
This is highly unfortunate for law abiding black males (the vast majority of black males) who come under police suspicion and have more encounters with the police than other groups. It sucks, but life is not always fair.
Then Obama comes in and appoints a host of lefty grievance mongers who come down hard on a bunch of police departments. The police pull back and surprise, surprise - violent crime rate soars.
The police have awesome power. They must use the power in a reasonable fashion. When police kill someone in the line of duty in the USA, there is always an investigation. But hyping something that is extraordinarily rare (unjustified killing of an innocent by police) for political points has backfired on the people most vulnerable to big city crime - the black community.
Add to this witches brew the illegal drug trade, the gang wars behind the drug trade, and the horrible side effects of the "war on drugs" which has been going on for most of my life - it is very bad news.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/15/massachusetts-police-officer-in-critical-condition-after-being-shot-reports-say.html
According to the story, the police officer was hit with a rock and then shot with his own gun. He died at the hospital. An elderly women was also killed.
Far more significant in terms of the death toll are firearms deaths in poor neighborhoods, mostly involving the illegal drug trade.
The death toll in Chicago, Baltimore, etc.... keeps rising.
Twelve dead in Chicago (another 62 shot) last weekend: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-weekend-violence-20180806-story.html
The only "good" to come from this is the training our military gets in handling gunshot wounds by placing medics/corpsman in trauma wards in big cities.
Quote from: airboy on August 08, 2018, 08:27:42 AM
Twelve dead in Chicago (another 62 shot) last weekend: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-weekend-violence-20180806-story.html
only 12? I thought I saw a total around 40 or so.