I was reading in another thread about this and that old game having been played by several of us who frequent this forum. Since I did not wish to derail the thread any more than it already had been, I decided to start this new thread about the oldest video games played by our forum members. Here were a few of mine:
1978 -
Space Invaders1980 -
Pac-Man1981 -
Donkey KongI missed out on getting a Commodore and didn't get a computer until I got a DOS clone in 1989. I can't remember all the early PC games I played. In the beginning there were many text adventures, but I grew tired of them rather quickly. My first favorite game was an RPG, SSI's
Pool of Radiance It wasn't long before I was shopping at Babbage's and Software ETC for more games. One title I played a LOT during those early years was
Sid Meier's Railroad TycoonGary Grigsby's
Pacific War occupied my time for awhile
Strategic Studies Group (SSG) soon got my attention with
WarlordsThere were several sub sims. My favorite of them was
Silent Service IIIt remained my favorite sub sim until the debut of
Aces of the Deep by Dynamix
As you can see, Dynamix set a new standard for graphics in computer games.
I could go on and on. There were so many games I enjoyed playing during what some have called "The Golden Age of PC Gaming" in the 1990s.
What were some of your favorite early games?
A selection of the ones I remember most I guess from the earliest; A couple are defo not the earliest but pretty close.
Probably My Favourite - Ancient Art of War
Ancient Art of War at Sea
Centurion Defender of Rome
Arctic Fox
Steel Thunder
Digdug
Test Drive
Xenon2
Double Dragon
Falcon
Airborne Ranger
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnoyouare.lixlink.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FPong-game.jpg&hash=6e421fa220885d8271245428bc24fdc4834e518b)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Quarterback#/media/File:Coleco_Electronic_Quarterback.jpg)
(https://i2.wp.com/apple2history.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/appletrek.gif?resize=376%2C258)
(https://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/189745-lemonade-stand-apple-ii-screenshot-hot-and-dry-out-should.png)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2Q5M4_2eXdA/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://archive.org/download/a2_Computer_Ambush_1982_SSI_RDOS/a2_Computer_Ambush_1982_SSI_RDOS.gif)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamesdatabase.org%2F%2FMedia%2FSYSTEM%2FApple_II%2FTitle%2Fbig%2FWizardry-_Proving_Grounds_of_the_Mad_Overlord_-_1981_-_Sir-tech_Software.jpg&hash=0ebf9021294fbef33a086bc8e0c925bdcf1aad6f)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/TeleGames-Atari-Pong.png/220px-TeleGames-Atari-Pong.png)
my very first video games was on a fresh bought Tektronix 4051, we were happy to get at our school
everybody who had enlisted to a voluntary Computer science class got one or two 45 min slots access a week
to test his home work ;-) at the machine
i remember 3 popular games:
- a ballistic game, 2players (enter angle and speed of projectile to hit the opponent behind a hill)
- weather war, 2players and you send an animated disaster cloud against a random windforce, disasters also had a random hit probability on the ground to destroy the opponent
- "Flugzeugkrieg", i don't remember the original game
That was the most popular one! it was written in machine code which just produced a bigger and a smaller arrow tip which could shoot projectile from the tip of the "spaceships". 2 players could chase each others. spaceship kept its momentum, the thrust was perpendicular. so you had to turn to decelerate, and the screen was wrap around.
think of it as the grandfather of Asteroids, without the asteroids and 2 players instead
Gorgeous :)
(https://www.windowscentral.com/sites/wpcentral.com/files/styles/xlarge/public/field/image/2016/05/Arcade-Game-Series-Galaga-Title-main.jpg?itok=JZyo5lyK)
Pong, on a black&white TV at a friends house 1982ish
Atari 2600-My parents bought this and the only game I liked at the time was Space Invaders, 1983ish
Arcade game-Punch Out at Showbizz Pizza around 1983/84? and APB (A police car chase game). One of the first things I purchased for my new home was the arcade game APB. ( I was single)
IBM- My Uncle owned a computer and lived across the street. I used to go over there and always played Ancient Art of War and XOR NFL Challenge, 1985ish
Commodore-My buddy got one around 1985 with a state of the art color monitor (instead of the green one) and sound! He had the greatest game we ever played at the time, Castle Wolfenstein.
Good thread, this has brought back many memories
I forgot to add doom1. But that was a lot later than the earliest games I guess.
I remember playing Pong around 1974 or 1975. My friend was a member of the yacht club, so one day after we had been sailing, he took me inside to show me this new-fangled game, which was Pong.
Space Invaders came out sometime after that. I graduated HS in 1979, and I think SI was popular my last two years in HS or so. The Pretenders came out with a song that had some SI soundtrack to it around that time.
Arcade games? The early classics - Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Defender, Missile Command, etc. My favorite was always Battlezone, which probably helps explain why I became a tanker.
I had an Atari 2600 with all the expected classics, too.
On a desktop computer, we had a Mac forever, so I was necessarily constrained, but a lot of Strategic Command and the first Wizardry, Balance of Power, and MacCasino, which is how I learned how to play Baccarat (the card game James Bond is always playing)
Oh yeah - I forgot about this one, although I'm not sure it's a true video game.
I was an undergrad from 1979-1983. My best friend in school was the sysadmin for the VAX machines in the astrophysics department. The last two years of school, we would go to his computer lab to work on his projects because they had some small conference rooms we could use, and because we could use the VT editor on his VAX as a crude word processor to type up our projects.
We'd work there until 1 or 2am. I'd do the sensible thing and try to get a couple of hours of sleep before our morning class, but my friend would stay and play D&D, which had an ASCII implementation on the VAX. The next morning in class, I'd see my friend in class, and he would be excited about the new level of his game that he had reached the night before and how he had quaffed some potion or something.
Not sure my absolute first - probably something on the Atari 2600 or Pac-Man in the arcade.
I have fond memories of these though:
The early games I played were all in pubs (pong/space invaders, the brick stacking game, Missile Command, the one where aliens wheeled around & attacked your spaceship plus the game where you were centre screen & destroyed incoming asteroids - Asteroids maybe?).
After that it was the spectrum ZX for me - stonkers, manic miner, F15 Eagle & a great undersea platform type game where you were a diver going into caves. Great fun all of them, but I must admit I have little love for the graphics now we've all been spoiled.
That said I think developers could learn a lot from the gameplay & longevity of some of the later efforts (Age of Rifles, Tanks, V for Victory series for example) which seemed by comparison to modern games to give a lot more bang for your buck.
The good old C64;
Elite (wireframe)
Paradroid
Dropzone
Moon Lander
M1 Platoon (Microprose)
Silent Service
Gunship
F16 Pilot
SDR already posted a screen shot....Pong....it was in a bar, cost a quarter, and it was so astounding to people you couldn't get near it when it first came out.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.mentalfloss.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fmf_image_16x9%2Fpublic%2Fzork-screen_5.jpg%3Fitok%3Du4OsH0KW%26amp%3Bresize%3D1100x1100&hash=5251f4751a95cd4235a9090db4077127cb02a946)
My dad had just bought an Apple 3 because it was supposedly for more serious applications such as business and early word processing. I remember how I laughed the first time I went into the dark attic and a Grue got me - even though Zork had warned me not to do it.
After that I was in the sweet halcyon days of gaming with Atari at friends houses and Pizza arcades - so all the classics
Pacman, Space Invaders, Missile Command Atari 2600 & Arcade
Nostalgia run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMP8OSWGcss&t=73s
Quote from: trailrunner on August 18, 2018, 06:58:18 AM
Oh yeah - I forgot about this one, although I'm not sure it's a true video game.
I was an undergrad from 1979-1983. My best friend in school was the sysadmin for the VAX machines in the astrophysics department. The last two years of school, we would go to his computer lab to work on his projects because they had some small conference rooms we could use, and because we could use the VT editor on his VAX as a crude word processor to type up our projects.
We'd work there until 1 or 2am. I'd do the sensible thing and try to get a couple of hours of sleep before our morning class, but my friend would stay and play D&D, which had an ASCII implementation on the VAX. The next morning in class, I'd see my friend in class, and he would be excited about the new level of his game that he had reached the night before and how he had quaffed some potion or something.
Similar to my experience - except go back to early to mid-1970s. IBM computer using punch cards at a local college had "Civil War" game. That was a little earlier for me than Pong.
Ti99-4A with Hunt the Wampus and Tunnels of Doom.
So nice to know that there are other old people like me who still
Play PC games.
Quote from: mikeck on August 18, 2018, 11:35:39 AM
So nice to know that there are other old people like me who still
Play PC games.
67 and gaming strong. O0
First two video games I ever played were Pong in the early 70's at the Shakey's Pizza in Marin County, CA, and Hunt the Wumpus on one of my High School computer lab's Apple IIs around 1979 or 1980.
Does it have to be a video game?
My first COMPUTER gaming experience was the classic "Star Trek" where you would get a printed grid of the galaxy and you had to find and destroy the Klingons. My mom had access to a terminal with a built in phone handset widget that I could use to access the local university. Someone had put Star Trek on their mainframe and I'd play for hours.
First video games were at the local arcade. Pong, Asteroids (I LOVED ASTEROIDS!!!!), PacMan, Centipede.
First home system was an Atari. First home computer was a Commodore 64. I got Strike Eagle for it and was hooked for life.
Good thread....
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
Does it have to be a video game?....
I admit that the term "video game" conjures up images of gaming platforms other than PCs and I gave some thought to what other word or phrase to use that would be more appropriate to what I had in mind. But when I read the definition of "video game" at Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game), I was relieved to see: "
A video game is an electronic game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device such as a TV screen or computer monitor." So computer (PC) games fit under the umbrella created by the term "video game."
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
....Good thread.
Thank you for contributing to it. I was happy to read that you are enjoying it. :)
Back on topic, how may of you played this game to death like I did?
Pong on the Magnavox Odyssey.
First PC game was Starflight on a Tandy (Not counting stuff I played on Apple IIe's).
You don't look day over 66 Rayfer :)
My very first electronic games were on a system called the Gemini which was an Atari 2600 clone...Combat, ET, and Pitfall are about as far back as I remember, around 1982.
After that I graduated to a TI99-4a which I actually entered some games in to with BASIC. Then a C64 around 1986. Then an Amiga around 1990. And finally a PC in 1998.
Quote from: Gusington on August 18, 2018, 02:19:09 PM
You don't look day over 66 Rayfer :)
:-\ :o :knuppel2:
:-X
:notworthy:
:D
Quote from: Greybriar on August 18, 2018, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
Does it have to be a video game?....
I admit that the term "video game" conjures up images of gaming platforms other than PCs and I gave some thought to what other word or phrase to use that would be more appropriate to what I had in mind. But when I read the definition of "video game" at Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game), I was relieved to see: "A video game is an electronic game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device such as a TV screen or computer monitor." So computer (PC) games fit under the umbrella created by the term "video game."
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
....Good thread.
Thank you for contributing to it. I was happy to read that you are enjoying it. :)
Back on topic, how may of you played this game to death like I did?
I played Wasteland to completion 3 times. Very fond memories.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J14Zw0dbuDw/hqdefault.jpg)
I had one of these.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atariage.com%2Fforums%2Fuploads%2F%2Fmonthly_10_2007%2Fblogentry-1571-1192991858.jpg&hash=9fee7f411d117af665cf248f649e45d16b332ea1)
One of the earliest I can remember was a version of Star Trek on the university mainframe. It looked something like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3c%2FStar_Trek_text_game.png&hash=8aa36c784b5c6a8525de25aa9cbb05bb390813e3)
Then there was a Lunar Lander type game played on the PDP-11 using a light pen:
.
One game I remember very fondly from my C64 days was
Lords of Conquest.
Quote from: steve58 on August 18, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
One of the earliest I can remember was a version of Star Trek on the university mainframe. It looked something like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3c%2FStar_Trek_text_game.png&hash=8aa36c784b5c6a8525de25aa9cbb05bb390813e3)
That's what I'm talking about!
Quote from: Greybriar on August 18, 2018, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
Does it have to be a video game?....
I admit that the term "video game" conjures up images of gaming platforms other than PCs and I gave some thought to what other word or phrase to use that would be more appropriate to what I had in mind. But when I read the definition of "video game" at Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game), I was relieved to see: "A video game is an electronic game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device such as a TV screen or computer monitor." So computer (PC) games fit under the umbrella created by the term "video game."
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 18, 2018, 01:10:22 PM
....Good thread.
Thank you for contributing to it. I was happy to read that you are enjoying it. :)
Back on topic, how may of you played this game to death like I did?
Same. Way back when video games were a different breed to computers games. I did not like people using video gamer to describe people who played the much more complex pc games. Today it would be the difference between console gamers and pc gamers.
Quote from: Capn Darwin on August 18, 2018, 10:50:09 AM
Ti99-4A with Hunt the Wampus and Tunnels of Doom.
Tunnels of Doom! :smitten:
Ultrabot was cool on PC
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.squakenet.com%2Fsnapshot%2F8329%2F96012-Ultrabots.jpg&hash=040ec509abe8db689f2552b04c55f0118cf4acb4)
Quote from: steve58 on August 18, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
One of the earliest I can remember was a version of Star Trek on the university mainframe. It looked something like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3c%2FStar_Trek_text_game.png&hash=8aa36c784b5c6a8525de25aa9cbb05bb390813e3)
Then there was a Lunar Lander type game played on the PDP-11 using a light pen:
.
One game I remember very fondly from my C64 days was Lords of Conquest.
Definitely remember playing that version of Star Trek on vax 11/780. .used to stay late after work (worked 3rd shift), so I could play all day on Saturday.. (talk about one more turn!)
Any of you guys remember this?
Or this?
"Pong" followed by Space Battle on the Intellivision. Kampgruppe for the C-64.
When we finally got our first Packard Bell 8088, this was the first game I played...
Second was Battle Chess. Got my very own copy of Starflight third.
Good to see a lot of other "Retro" gamers O0
Quote from: Toonces on August 18, 2018, 10:12:11 PM
Any of you guys remember this?
Damn- procedural generated fractal mountains!? That's pretty hard-core for an 8-bit game from 1985!
I do indeed remember it - I still have the blisters!
And that was followed by Koronis Rift IIRC.
Ha, just stumbled on the C64 Mini. Looks like its about $80.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthec64.com%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fbox-shotNew.png&hash=44dc528c1df66a9feaab2f7fc9f21d514945b87a)
Quote
It's 1982 and a new home computer graces the scene. Out goes the silent black and white experience and in with 64KB of RAM, colour graphics, and synthesizer sound.
Roll forward 35 years and kick nostalgia into overdrive with the release of THEC64 Mini. A tiny but perfectly formed 50% scale replica of this much loved machine.
Featuring high-definition output via HDMI, a classic style joystick and 64 built-in games including classics like Uridium, Paradroid, Hawkeye, Nebulus and Monty Mole.
https://thec64.com/
OMG Yar's Revenge :o
Had that on my 2600. I killed at that game.
This is the first game system I remember in my house:
Quote from: steve58 on August 18, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
One of the earliest I can remember was a version of Star Trek on the university mainframe. It looked something like:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F3c%2FStar_Trek_text_game.png&hash=8aa36c784b5c6a8525de25aa9cbb05bb390813e3)
I can type about 80wpm today, and I attribute that not to typing classes, but near-constant BASIC program typing. I spent hours typing games in to play them, and it honed my skills pretty well. One of my books had this Star Trek game in it, and it was the bane of my existence as I never could get it to work right. :(
^Well FWIW there is a Windows version of the game that was updated for newer OSs. The doc still talks it about being shareware but I'm not so sure.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/wintrek/
YMMV
I think the first games that I played a lot (all were on the greatest gaming system in history: the Commodore 64) were The old Microprose games. My first was "F-15 Strike Eagle". Also played "Jet" where you could fly the F-16 or F-18. Then moved into "Gunship". My favorites came out in 1986 with "Pirates!" And - especially- "F-19 Stealth Fighter". That game is- to this day- my favorite of all time.
Also played "Elite" and "Raid over Moscow"
^here here
Quote from: mikeck on August 19, 2018, 03:52:10 PM
I think the first games that I played a lot (all were on the greatest gaming system in history: the Commodore 64) were The old Microprose games. My first was "F-15 Strike Eagle". Also played "Jet" where you could fly the F-16 or F-18. Then moved into "Gunship". My favorites came out in 1986 with "Pirates!" And - especially- "F-19 Stealth Fighter". That game is- to this day- my favorite of all time.
Also played "Elite" and "Raid over Moscow"
+1
Quote from: steve58 on August 19, 2018, 11:30:48 AM
Ha, just stumbled on the C64 Mini. Looks like its about $80.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthec64.com%2Fapp%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2Fbox-shotNew.png&hash=44dc528c1df66a9feaab2f7fc9f21d514945b87a)
Quote
It's 1982 and a new home computer graces the scene. Out goes the silent black and white experience and in with 64KB of RAM, colour graphics, and synthesizer sound.
Roll forward 35 years and kick nostalgia into overdrive with the release of THEC64 Mini. A tiny but perfectly formed 50% scale replica of this much loved machine.
Featuring high-definition output via HDMI, a classic style joystick and 64 built-in games including classics like Uridium, Paradroid, Hawkeye, Nebulus and Monty Mole.
https://thec64.com/
It's already out in Europe in 50hz config. The NA 60hz version goes on sale early october. I have one of the latter on preorder.
Supposedly there is a firmware update due out that will allow you to save a number of commodore game images on a usb stick. Currently, the stick can only hold 1 game at a time because the game file has to have a specific name to be recognized.
After the C64, we had first an Amiga 500 followed by an Amiga 600HD which had a 20Mb HD!
Why on earth would you ever need more than 20 megs of ram?
The very first one for me was Tele-Games Super Pong IV. Atari made them for Sears. My dad bought it for us for Christmas in 1975. I remember how we thought it was the greatest thing and played it for hours and hours.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics2%2Fsp4.jpg&hash=01a48abc89a3e0643fd42a3a84d581fcaf20fdac)
My Amiga was the 500 with the 1MB RAM expansion :)
The first video game I ever played was Pong over at my friends house on his brand new Atari system. I still remember that feeling I experienced seeing a video game for the first time and indeed this was the first video game I believe to exist. I couldn't believe technology like that was possible. I wonder if this feeling I had was the same thing people were saying when the automobile first came out.
Today I've got video games coming out of my ears. One can go online and play Call of Duty (or any FPS) or fire up a grand strategic game in single player.
Quote from: Gusington on August 19, 2018, 07:58:21 PM
My Amiga was the 500 with the 1MB RAM expansion :)
Slightly off-topic: The first mainframe I worked on had a 512K expansion frame the size of a refrigerator. You guys are spoiled...... And I am old.
My first monitor for my C-64 was a 15 inch monochrome monitor. My second was a 21 inch color TV. Played the whole Gold Box series on it. O0
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 19, 2018, 06:17:31 PM
Why on earth would you ever need more than 20 megs of ram?
Yeah, a bit over the top, especially since it also had a 3.1/2 floppy drive. We upgraded ours with an internal 1Mg RAM chip as well. How's that for hi-tech?
In order:
First game I ever played on a computer.
Tomahawk ZX Spectrum
I loved this and spent hundreds of hours on it.
Amiga F-19 Stealth Fighter
Early 90's. This was addictive.
The Amazing Spider-Man (Gameboy)
Mortal Kombat (Game Boy)
Star Wars: Tie Fighter
Metalgear Solid (PS1) - just simply a brilliant game.
Parasite Eve 2- (PS1)
Medal of Honor (PS1) I loved this game.
Medal of Honor: Underground (PS1) IMO it topped the first one.
Tenchu 2: Birth of the Stealth Assassins (PS1) - had a lot of fun with this.
Video not showing.
Fix : N00bs Guide to Embedding Youtube Vids in Posts http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4814.0
Quote from: Pete Dero on August 20, 2018, 06:54:42 AM
Video not showing.
Fix : N00bs Guide to Embedding Youtube Vids in Posts http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4814.0
Well hell. Whatever happened to the days we could just paste the link onto the post and use the Youtube icon to link it? I thought this stuff was meant to be practical.
My first computer (that was mine and not the family's) was a TRS-80 model III. 16K of RAM and no floppy drive, so anything I ran on it had to be entered as BASIC code and played in one sitting. Once the power was off, no more game.
The big day was when my grandfather, on my birthday, sprung for a 5.25" floppy drive (!!!) AND doubled the RAM to 32K. I could save programs! That saved a buttload of typing.
I still remember the mainframes that we used in high school Basic Programming, my freshman year (1983-84). We had an Apple II computer hooked up to a TV in there and occasionally guys would be playing adventure games. Wish I could remember the one I first saw on it - a picture in color was displayed, you'd type in your command, and the picture would change (such as moving a rug, which I remember clearly, but nothing else unfortunately). As for the mainframe, I remember all of us budding hax0rs trying to figure out ways of f*cking with each other through it and finding new and creative ways to make it crash.
Yeah, a real wild bunch. 8)
^We used the Trash 80's in high school.
Quote from: Ian C on August 20, 2018, 06:48:58 AM
Early 90's. This was addictive.
The Amazing Spider-Man (Gameboy)
That game was eminently frustrating as hell. I still remember saving up for that Gameboy ($120 at the time, IIRC) and had bought a handful of games for it, this being one of them, over the next couple of years. I still have the Gameboy somewhere I think, but I haven't seen my Spider-man cartridge for a long time.
I have your Spider Man Gameboy cartridge and a copy of your Move the Rug simulator.
I remember standing in Sears drooling on the floor watching F-15 Strike Eagle playing on a IBM screen. And that was back when I didn't drool all the time like I do now. And the very first Silent Service.... :dreamer:
I played that very first Silent Service on my C64.
There was another sub sim I played first, can't remember the name, set in the Pacific. I loved it. Kampgruppe was ugly as Grandpa's butt but great to play. The very first Might & Magic captured me and wouldn't let go until I found the Secret of The Inner Sanctum. :nerd: :nerd: :nerd:
Possibly Ant Attack or Space Invaders - both on the ZX Spectrum 28K
I am not sure because it was at a friends house. I think it was:
We played this a lot.
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 21, 2018, 09:22:34 AM
I remember standing in Sears drooling on the floor watching F-15 Strike Eagle playing on a IBM screen. And that was back when I didn't drool all the time like I do now. And the very first Silent Service.... :dreamer:
The thing I seem to remember most about F-15 Strike Eagle was the targets/carrier...just a plain ol triangle on the ground/sea ??? Gotta love those old time graphics.
I'd forgotten about Ant Attack - we had it on the C64 and played it for hour upon hour!
A horse-racing simulator on the VAX mainframe at the University of Bloomington.
Then they told me they had a Star Trek game.
It was over.
I found out later they amended their policies to prohibit non-students from using the machines.
Quote from: Gusington on August 21, 2018, 09:23:38 AM
I played that very first Silent Service on my C64.
Yep...one of my first as well. Played it all the time until Red Storm Rising game out. That took over scratching my submarine itch.
Any of you guys have an "Odyssey" game system? It came out in the late 70's/early 80's before the Atari/intellivision/coleco consoles. It was always hooked up to the TV in the basement and there were really only two games to play on it: "combat!" And "Wizards of Wor"
I played Red Storm Rising on my C64 too. Slash, IIRC Silent Service was set in the Pacific.
Silent Hunter II was Pacific I think. Not sure about Silent Service. Aces of the Deep rocked!
Silent Service was the Pacific.
Maybe that's the one I played then, I remember it was set in the Pacific because it had Japanese Kongo Class BB's. And night graphics.
Beware the Kaibokan!
Quote from: mikeck on August 21, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
scratching my submarine itch
Quote
...the joys of adolescence
Quote from: mikeck on August 21, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
Yep...one of my first as well. Played it all the time until Red Storm Rising game out. That took over scratching my submarine itch.
Any of you guys have an "Odyssey" game system? It came out in the late 70's/early 80's before the Atari/intellivision/coleco consoles. It was always hooked up to the TV in the basement and there were really only two games to play on it: "combat!" And "Wizards of Wor"
My family had the older Odyssey 3000. I remember you had to select your game from a dial on the console, and play with two attached paddles. I only really remember Pong.
We upgraded to the Atari 2600 in early '80
Quote from: Tuna on August 21, 2018, 01:21:44 PM
Silent Hunter II was Pacific I think. Not sure about Silent Service. Aces of the Deep rocked!
The first Silent Hunter was set in the PT and you played USN, with a campaign disk released soon after. Graphics were very good for their time.
Silent Hunter II and III were AT and you played KM. IIRC, IV went back to the Pacific and then V to the Atlantic.
And, yes, AotD was amazing. The Speech control option drove me crazy though.
Silent Service = MicroProse. I never played the Silent Hunter series.
My mom was the electronics manager of a toy store. We had the 2600 Christmas of '78. Loads of cartridges followed for the next few Christmases. Then the Colecovision came out and we got that, with the Atari 2600 adapter. The first two PC games I played, even for a little while (I never had a PC until after the Millenium), were Mail Order Monsters and a game called Legion. It was Greek city states with chit counters representing your military. It had a rudimentary economic system, buying resources each turn you would need to keep your population happy, build units, and influence other rulers. It was basically a race to Heavy Cavalry. until your population revolted and crashed your economy.
Thanks to the link to the the best old games site, I can tell you the two games I downloaded yesterday, and the two today, and the next two for tomorrow.
Yesterday was Red Storm Rising, and the original Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon.
Today is Conquered Kingdoms, and Battles of Destiny.
Tomorrow will be Warlords, and Microprose's M-1 Tank Platoon.
This will take me weeks to download all these old, wonderful games.
Quote from: DennisS on August 21, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Thanks to the link to the the best old games site, I can tell you the two games I downloaded yesterday, and the two today, and the next two for tomorrow.
Yesterday was Red Storm Rising, and the original Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon.
Today is Conquered Kingdoms, and Battles of Destiny.
Tomorrow will be Warlords, and Microprose's M-1 Tank Platoon.
This will take me weeks to download all these old, wonderful games.
weeks? you breaking out the 2400 baud modem as well?
Quote from: CptHowdy on August 21, 2018, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: DennisS on August 21, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Thanks to the link to the the best old games site, I can tell you the two games I downloaded yesterday, and the two today, and the next two for tomorrow.
Yesterday was Red Storm Rising, and the original Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon.
Today is Conquered Kingdoms, and Battles of Destiny.
Tomorrow will be Warlords, and Microprose's M-1 Tank Platoon.
This will take me weeks to download all these old, wonderful games.
weeks? you breaking out the 2400 baud modem as well?
My first modem was just 300 baud. My first computer was a Texas Instruments (TI99-4A). I once spent $98 to upgrade my PC from 640k all the way to one megabyte. I still remember how to re-jigger my config.sys and autoexec.bat to free up as much upper memory as I could. Specifically, Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 required 603K free. I became quite the local expert on UMM (upper memory management)
As far as weeks to download games...hell yes. Only allowed two downloads per day...and there are at LEAST 50 games I want. Again.
Has anyone mentioned notching the C64 disks to use the other side yet? :-"
I did that! Jenius.
Quote from: DennisS on August 21, 2018, 10:43:16 PM
....My first modem was just 300 baud. My first computer was a Texas Instruments (TI99-4A). I once spent $98 to upgrade my PC from 640k all the way to one megabyte. I still remember how to re-jigger my config.sys and autoexec.bat to free up as much upper memory as I could. Specifically, Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 required 603K free. I became quite the local expert on UMM (upper memory management)
As far as weeks to download games...hell yes. Only allowed two downloads per day...and there are at LEAST 50 games I want. Again.
After I added some RAM to my PC, I took the easy way out and used
Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager (
QEMM) to manage the memory on my PC.
@bbmike: That, my friend, is a memory. I recall having a special tool to notch the other side and save the lofty sum I'd have to pay for another 5-1/4'' floppy.
This causes me to remember the drawer-length pair of cardboard containers I had to house my collection of C64 floppies. Sorted by game type and within each category by game title. Thus passed much of the mid-80s.
Quote from: Greybriar on August 22, 2018, 10:33:23 AM
After I added some RAM to my PC, I took the easy way out and used Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager (QEMM) to manage the memory on my PC.
Wow. I remember that program. I bought that for my work computer. I was running FORTRAN on my PC and needed the extra memory. Those were the days when I could put in a purchase request for software and install it myself - no sysadmin accounts.
Remember the early days of DOS tweaking that config.sys to get every tiny lil bit of memory...
Quote from: Cyrano on August 22, 2018, 10:43:42 AM
This causes me to remember the drawer-length pair of cardboard containers I had to house my collection of C64 floppies. Sorted by game type and within each category by game title. Thus passed much of the mid-80s.
I had a similar box, but it held my punch cards.
In my first job out of school, I spent a lot of time in the lab. To store my data, I would frequently buy cases of 5 1/4 inch floppies. The darn things only held 360k IIRC, so I had to buy a lot.
I miss punch cards. They were great for taking notes on. And for bookmarks. I would occasionally use some for programming and JCL. :)
I remember my dad loading up the game Tapper off of a floppy. You're a bartender that has to serve drinks quickly, or you get thrown down the bar by angry patrons. After that, I think the original Mario on the Nintendo is the other game I remember.
My dad's factory used punch cards for some purpose or other and they were my preferred note card well into grad school.
I am a world master at Tapper. @me. In undergrad, I once played it for several hours straight and only quit when the thing rolled the score over. People bought me beer for the effort. Kind of meta.
Wow, I must have blocked that memory. The first semester of our high school freshman Computer Programming class was exclusively done by using punch cards in a WANG card reader. My God that was a huge pain in the ass. That thing must have cost the school a fortune. We were so relieved to move on to the networked computers the next semester.
Like most our age (40ish), the Atari was my gateway into home video gaming. Couldn't tell you which games, mind you, but I loved the Pitfall stuff - was a total Activision fanboy from then on.
For computer games, I glomed time off a buddy's machine and spent much time on Lucasarts' Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe and Their Finest Hour. I love(d) the position of Stuka or BF-110 tail gunner as I'm a masochist and finding that sweet spot in SWotL where your rockets hit that B-17 just right.
One of my favorite games ever is Pitfall 2.
BOULDER DASH! on the C64.
Chaos Engine
Magic Pockets
Xenon
SPEEDBALL - I still have the scars
Some good games from Bitmap Brothers,
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
Remember the early days of DOS tweaking that config.sys to get every tiny lil bit of memory...
The dreaded conventional 640k!
Quote from: SirAndrewD on August 22, 2018, 02:46:15 PM
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2018, 11:13:36 AM
Remember the early days of DOS tweaking that config.sys to get every tiny lil bit of memory...
The dreaded conventional 640k!
Utilizing that himem.sys
I remember it was a cast iron bitch getting the Original Xcom running.
Quote from: bbmike on August 22, 2018, 05:50:16 AM
Has anyone mentioned notching the C64 disks to use the other side yet? :-"
Yes!!! The old home-punch.
Load"*",8,1
What about the fact that Wasteland made you copy the master disks so the game could edit and remember all global changes...
And when you needed to re-stock on good equipment you could just put the master (or a clean copy) of Disk 3 for Vegas in, let it load and then swap it out once loaded to re-spawn baddies.
It was always satisfying when I reached the point I could melee Scorpitron
Quote from: Greybriar on August 22, 2018, 10:33:23 AM
Quote from: DennisS on August 21, 2018, 10:43:16 PM
....My first modem was just 300 baud. My first computer was a Texas Instruments (TI99-4A). I once spent $98 to upgrade my PC from 640k all the way to one megabyte. I still remember how to re-jigger my config.sys and autoexec.bat to free up as much upper memory as I could. Specifically, Falcon 3.0 and 4.0 required 603K free. I became quite the local expert on UMM (upper memory management)
As far as weeks to download games...hell yes. Only allowed two downloads per day...and there are at LEAST 50 games I want. Again.
After I added some RAM to my PC, I took the easy way out and used Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager (QEMM) to manage the memory on my PC.
DOS 6.22 had MEMMAKER.EXE, which loaded your terminal and stay resident (TSR) drivers in upper memory automatically. This was a godsend to me..as I had one bitch kitty of a time loading my video, sound, and printer drivers in upper memory, freeing up the 604k of conventional memory needed for Falcon 4.0.
Quote from: DennisS on August 21, 2018, 08:08:40 PM
Thanks to the link to the the best old games site, I can tell you the two games I downloaded yesterday, and the two today, and the next two for tomorrow.
Yesterday was Red Storm Rising, and the original Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon.
Today is Conquered Kingdoms, and Battles of Destiny.
Tomorrow will be Warlords, and Microprose's M-1 Tank Platoon.
This will take me weeks to download all these old, wonderful games.
Hmm...today's games were Warlords 2, and ... ACHTUNG SPITFIRE!!!! I LOVED this game. Flight Commander 2 is on the list now, as is Chaos Overlords.
Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2018, 02:50:37 PM
Utilizing that himem.sys
I had a freaking boot disk for every single game I had. It choked on games like Wing Commander. It was an endless battle till games adapted in the post Windows '95 era.
Quote from: jamus34 on August 22, 2018, 08:47:08 PM
What about the fact that Wasteland made you copy the master disks so the game could edit and remember all global changes...
And when you needed to re-stock on good equipment you could just put the master (or a clean copy) of Disk 3 for Vegas in, let it load and then swap it out once loaded to re-spawn baddies.
It was always satisfying when I reached the point I could melee Scorpitron
And copy protection was a "code wheel" or "turn to page 23, paragraph 3, line 5, what is the third word?" :D
Quote from: bbmike on August 23, 2018, 08:17:32 AM
Quote from: jamus34 on August 22, 2018, 08:47:08 PM
What about the fact that Wasteland made you copy the master disks so the game could edit and remember all global changes...
And when you needed to re-stock on good equipment you could just put the master (or a clean copy) of Disk 3 for Vegas in, let it load and then swap it out once loaded to re-spawn baddies.
It was always satisfying when I reached the point I could melee Scorpitron
And copy protection was a "code wheel" or "turn to page 23, paragraph 3, line 5, what is the third word?" :D
I remember Maniac Mansion on the Amiga had a point in the game where you had to open a large security door to access the rest of the house. The only way to do it was through a code wheel. Always forgot where I'd left it.
Yeah. Code wheels and codes in the manual were very common back in the day.
I played Microprose F-117 so much I had the aircraft recognition check nailed without needing the manual. I remember making cheat sheets for Gunship 2000 by copying the manual pages with the codes on them and literally cutting and pasting together my own quick reference.
Quote from: Cyrano on August 22, 2018, 12:18:10 PM
My dad's factory used punch cards for some purpose or other and they were my preferred note card well into grad school.
I am a world master at Tapper. @me. In undergrad, I once played it for several hours straight and only quit when the thing rolled the score over. People bought me beer for the effort. Kind of meta.
I stink at it! I need better button mashing skills.
Missile Command is a favorite of mine. I also enjoyed playing NARC on the NES.
Quote from: RommelFox on August 23, 2018, 11:29:09 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on August 22, 2018, 12:18:10 PM
My dad's factory used punch cards for some purpose or other and they were my preferred note card well into grad school.
I am a world master at Tapper. @me. In undergrad, I once played it for several hours straight and only quit when the thing rolled the score over. People bought me beer for the effort. Kind of meta.
I stink at it! I need better button mashing skills.
Missile Command is a favorite of mine. I also enjoyed playing NARC on the NES.
Didn't the original tapper game have a lever (like a beer tap) that was used? I miss those old cabinets with specialty controls. John Elway football was another one with the spring loaded passing stick
I forget if Space Invaders came out before that trackball football game or not, but I loved both of them.
The first computer game I ever played was Space Warp, on my best friend's dad's TRS-80. The first computer game I ever owned for myself was Temple of Apshai for the Commodore-64. But Telengard was way better and kicked its ass when I got that six months later.
The two best floppy disk hacks were hole-punching to get a double-sided CD and taping over the copy-protect cut. Or was that a read/write protect cut?
Nobody's talking about their first mobile game, but I was a wizard at the original article:
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/52585171?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=webp)
SSI's Kampgruppe - I paid $45 for it new in 1985
YouTube of Gameplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYM_6i0PecI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYM_6i0PecI)
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 23, 2018, 09:58:38 AM
Yeah. Code wheels and codes in the manual were very common back in the day.
I played Microprose F-117 so much I had the aircraft recognition check nailed without needing the manual. I remember making cheat sheets for Gunship 2000 by copying the manual pages with the codes on them and literally cutting and pasting together my own quick reference.
The GoG and Steam versions of F-117A have the requirement for checking the recognition manual. Can't remember which one was really needed..one was not. I ended up buying them both, just to get past the copy protection. Some aircraft were simple..the A-10, AWACS, etc..but a few were not.
I have the GOG version and it bypasses the copy protection very nicely. I was reminiscing about my original floppy disk version.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on August 23, 2018, 01:03:46 PM
I forget if Space Invaders came out before that trackball football game or not, but I loved both of them.
The first computer game I ever played was Space Warp, on my best friend's dad's TRS-80. The first computer game I ever owned for myself was Temple of Apshai for the Commodore-64. But Telengard was way better and kicked its ass when I got that six months later.
The two best floppy disk hacks were hole-punching to get a double-sided CD and taping over the copy-protect cut. Or was that a read/write protect cut?
Nobody's talking about their first mobile game, but I was a wizard at the original article:
(https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/52585171?wid=488&hei=488&fmt=webp)
My first mobile game?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics2%2Fgalaxian2.jpg&hash=64df10c01b513644354e3458946031a57ba8c531)
The first mobile game I remember was the football game with the little red dots that you were supposed to maneuver around. I never owned one, but I played my brother-in-law's game.
Quote from: bbmike on August 23, 2018, 08:17:32 AM
Quote from: jamus34 on August 22, 2018, 08:47:08 PM
What about the fact that Wasteland made you copy the master disks so the game could edit and remember all global changes...
And when you needed to re-stock on good equipment you could just put the master (or a clean copy) of Disk 3 for Vegas in, let it load and then swap it out once loaded to re-spawn baddies.
It was always satisfying when I reached the point I could melee Scorpitron
And copy protection was a "code wheel" or "turn to page 23, paragraph 3, line 5, what is the third word?" :D
The First Dongle
Ooookay. Today was Airbucks, and Caesar II. Both were "good old games." Caesar III suffered from fires breaking out, constantly, despite fire stations all over the city. Not a good experience.
Quote from: trailrunner on August 23, 2018, 05:47:39 PM
The first mobile game I remember was the football game with the little red dots that you were supposed to maneuver around. I never owned one, but I played my brother-in-law's game.
You can get those at Walmart now. I almost bought one the other day!
Quote from: Toonces on August 26, 2018, 12:33:03 AM
Quote from: trailrunner on August 23, 2018, 05:47:39 PM
The first mobile game I remember was the football game with the little red dots that you were supposed to maneuver around. I never owned one, but I played my brother-in-law's game.
You can get those at Walmart now. I almost bought one the other day!
I could score a touchdown on almost every play. My wife brought me one, while I was flat on my back after my heart bypass. A pleasant way to spend some time. She also brought me ALL of my Clancy books, and all my Richard Bolitho (Alexander Kent author) books.
What a good woman! Damn DennisS, you ought to marry her. I mean twice. :wow:
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 26, 2018, 09:46:40 PM
What a good woman! Damn DennisS, you ought to marry her. I mean twice. :wow:
I also got a new Lay-Z-Boy recliner, and a riding lawnmower. It gets hot as hell in the summer in Missouri...and she told me she doesn't want to find me dead on ground in the back yard.... ::)
She's a 'Keeper' all right. O0 Now, if you could just figure a way to put the Lazy Boy on the riding lawnmower..... :bd:
^You beat me to it!
Put the lazy boy in an air-conditioned TV/game room and hire a kid to cut the grass. Win!
^This guys got it! :bd:
Have you priced kids grass-cutting lately? They all want 401K's and Dental.
Can you blame them?
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 27, 2018, 10:21:11 PM
Have you priced kids grass-cutting lately? They all want 401K's and Dental.
Me and the misses fully retired just a couple of months ago. We are also blessed with a nice home, in a nice area. It takes 45 minutes to mow, and another 15 or so to trim and clean up. Around here, this is $40 a week. This is about $180 a month. Can you appreciate how many steam cards per month this is, for a retiree?? I did have the neighbor kid mow, weekly, for the last couple of years. Good news is that he has expanded to several homes in the neighborhood, and he won't miss mine.
Oh. Old games downloads for today ... Sim Golf by Sid Meier, and Shattered Union. Flawed, but fun.
I downloaded a railroad game yesterday, 1830, and it looks pretty fun.
Heh I contributed some alternate history fiction to a Shattered Union website when the game was released about 15 years ago. Got paid the most I have ever been paid to write for it!
Quote from: DennisS on August 28, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 27, 2018, 10:21:11 PM
Have you priced kids grass-cutting lately? They all want 401K's and Dental.
Me and the misses fully retired just a couple of months ago. We are also blessed with a nice home, in a nice area. It takes 45 minutes to mow, and another 15 or so to trim and clean up. Around here, this is $40 a week. This is about $180 a month. Can you appreciate how many steam cards per month this is, for a retiree?? I did have the neighbor kid mow, weekly, for the last couple of years. Good news is that he has expanded to several homes in the neighborhood, and he won't miss mine.
Oh. Old games downloads for today ... Sim Golf by Sid Meier, and Shattered Union. Flawed, but fun.
I downloaded a railroad game yesterday, 1830, and it looks pretty fun.
Games before lawn care. You appear to have your priorities set very well. Kudos. :bd:
I keep hoping IRobot will come up with a legit lawn mowing bot that doesn't get lost and run over my Pussy Willows. I don't really have Pussy Willows, I just wanted to say I got away with printing that word here. Twice.
Duly noted in the GrogTome.
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 10:25:47 AM
I keep hoping IRobot will come up with a legit lawn mowing bot that doesn't get lost and run over my Pussy Willows. I don't really have Pussy Willows, I just wanted to say I got away with printing that word here. Twice.
Pussy Willows should the name of the next Bond movie villainess.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 28, 2018, 07:29:07 PM
Quote from: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 10:25:47 AM
I keep hoping IRobot will come up with a legit lawn mowing bot that doesn't get lost and run over my Pussy Willows. I don't really have Pussy Willows, I just wanted to say I got away with printing that word here. Twice.
Pussy Willows should the name of the next Bond movie villainess.
Wasn't Pussy Galore the name of a Bond girl?
Quote from: trailrunner on August 29, 2018, 03:30:32 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 28, 2018, 07:29:07 PM
Pussy Willows should the name of the next Bond movie villainess.
Wasn't Pussy Galore the name of a Bond girl?
She is 93 now.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/9d/e0/f69de084355bcd0407429b5407523213.jpg) (https://jamesbond007.se/content/event/honor-blackman-pussy-galore.jpg)
Honor Blackman.
Actresses like her today are probably derided for playing such a sexist role but actually her character was most likely one of the first women in films that didn't just scream and faint into a man's arms when in trouble. I love the old 60's Bond films for all the nostalgia, the 60's era dress and cars etc.
Great. Now I have the "Goldfinger" theme running through my head all day. :uglystupid2:
What the hell were we talking about?
Cats.
Quote from: DoctorQuest on August 29, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
What the hell were we talking about?
Animals in Bond movies. Those shells made a lasting impression.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aZ6oYLJG2gE/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn0-a.production.liputan6.static6.com%2Fmedias%2F1057884%2Fbig%2F055727100_1447748599-Ursula_Andress___Halle_Berry_-_James_Bond.jpg&hash=1cabd9dfd380a6cd588c6e202e2b480016351868)
That girl could cause me to 'conch' out.
Quote from: Pete Dero on August 29, 2018, 03:42:51 AM
Quote from: trailrunner on August 29, 2018, 03:30:32 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 28, 2018, 07:29:07 PM
Pussy Willows should the name of the next Bond movie villainess.
Wasn't Pussy Galore the name of a Bond girl?
She is 93 now.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/9d/e0/f69de084355bcd0407429b5407523213.jpg) (https://jamesbond007.se/content/event/honor-blackman-pussy-galore.jpg)
I'd hit it. :uglystupid2:
Quote from: Gusington on August 28, 2018, 09:43:57 AM
Heh I contributed some alternate history fiction to a Shattered Union website when the game was released about 15 years ago. Got paid the most I have ever been paid to write for it!
I appreciate that the game didn't get great reviews, but I played the hell out of it.
I really enjoyed it. It was pretty unique.
Arcade - Red Barron
Vic 20 - Blitz
Commodore Pet - Space Invaders
some entertainment for you
(https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/40389320_218237879050299_4308989092911120384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=45c26be2e23c5fd16aa3fcfc3e086ae9&oe=5BEEB7EC)
Doesn't that Nuclear Family look happy! I'll bet that's the same TV they watched the men land on the Moon. :dreamer:
Wait! Men - landing on the moon, you say! Astounding news.
Don't worry, it never happened. Total fakery!
You mean....the moons not real?
Total green cheese, Sir.
Well, who'd a thunk it!
My ghast is well and truly flabbered.
That will fade with time.
....and regular use of the ointment.
:-[
You may need a shot for that too Bob.
Make mine a double; I assume you're buying?
That's Affirmative!