Combat Commander: The CCG?!

[bayonetbrant]

Apparently at least one guy thinks so...

link to this thread at BGG.  first post is:

Fate deck was not "stacked"

Sat down across the kitchen table from "Fernando" again last night, (see previous 'illusions shattered' thread).

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/2057600#2057600

The interaction was wildly different than I expected.

When his deck hit the table I said I was worried about never seeing any German Event triggers in our previous game, and asked if I could check to see if maybe GMT had sent him a defective German deck. (Note the face-saving option offered)

He looked slightly sheepish for a second, then said, "Oh, I replaced those cards."

I said "You're saying you stacked your deck against me, right ?"

Fernando: "No, it isn't 'stacked', I TUNED my decks. Had to buy another game to do it."

I sat, semi-stunned, biting my tongue while trying to formulate a diplomatic response.

He proceeded into a rambling tale of how he had analyzed the cards and decided which ones were the most effective, then included two each of the 36 best cards in his deck. His tactical choice was closing and eliminating enemy units in melee, so he retained all the Advance, Move, and Ambush cards, then filled the deck out with some Recovers and the Fire cards which had the highest die numbers on them. No fool would want to include the Confusion or Rout cards in a deck. The Artillery cards he considered only corner-case-useful, so they came out as well.

While learning how he reinserted the Time trigger cards when he planned to play defense, I interrupted to state that Fate decks were meant to be FIXED decks.

Fernando said that was silly, declaring that part of the challenge of ANY card game is building an optimum deck. (Yah, he's a big 'Collectable Card Game' player) Fernando said the only restriction was that a fate deck had to have 72 cards and challenged me to show him where in the rules it forbad 'tuning' his deck.

I dove for my rulebook and discovered - - - well, - - - he is right, it isn't explicitly forbidden.

>1. The Fate Cards – There are three sets of Fate cards included with this game - - . A player's 72-card Fate Deck is the Heart and soul of the game. Once the game begins, no action may be taken - - without a fate card in hand allowing it."

I persisted, claiming the rulebook definitely IMPLIES that Fate decks are fixed. He dove for his rulebook and immediately referred me to the adjacent red-boxed note:

" Important: In Combat Commander - - a rule means exactly what it says - - Do NOT infer or imagine more to a rule than is stated in it. - - " <

At that point I was ready to cut my losses and leave, but, maybe I could salvage the evening - - I asked if he would be willing to play, but with both of us using my unmodified Fate decks. Fernando said he had played CC twice with the starter decks, and it wasn't much fun, too frustrating. He found that often he couldn't do what he wanted to do.

I suggested that this was exactly the point of the game. He didn't answer, but looked at me as he would at a particularly dim-witted specimen.

My erstwhile opponent then offered to loan me his 'TUNED' Russian Defensive Deck for a game. This idea I found disturbingly attractive. I considered it for a long moment (only as a 'variant', of course). Finally passed my morale check, and turned away from the Dark Side.

Fernando then compelled me to admire his 'All Heavy Artillery All the Time' deck for the old WWII CCG "The Last Crusade" which he said had never been beaten. I allowed him to demonstrate some cool first-person shooter WWII X-box game, watching him play just long enough to be polite, before returning home.

So, what did I learn from "Fernando"? That it takes all kinds. The upside to this story is that GMT got to sell two copies of CCE to the guy.

Chick

[TheCommandTent]

Not sure I would be a fan of that.  "Stacking" the deck would ruin the randomness of the events that come up on die rolls along with only giving you the best die rolls.  The game balance would be completely lost.  It sounds like the guy who stacked his deck was fed up because he couldn't control every part of the game so he changed it so he could win.

[bayonetbrant]

that's the point - that guy was a CCG guy who expected to change up the deck.

[TheCommandTent]

that's the point - that guy was a CCG guy who expected to change up the deck.

Ahh, I was reading to quickly and missed the part where he is a CCG guy. 

[GJK]

I would think the easy argument would be that the fate deck had to be from the cards that came with the game, not mix and matched cards from two or more copies of the game.  If his counter-argument was "well the rules only just say that the fate deck has to be 72 cards" I'd again counter with wishing to include Kings and Aces and Jokers and Pokemon and any other card mix that I wanted then which of course makes no sense.

[eyebiter]

Has anyone contacted the CCG publisher to get their take on the situation?

[bayonetbrant]

Has anyone contacted the CCG publisher to get their take on the situation?

It's not a CCG - that's the point.  The CCG gamer bought a game with a fixed deck, and then modified it b/c that's what he's used to doing.  In the process, though, he completely screwed the game balance.  The cards in Combat Commander don't merely govern your actions on the may - they are also your 'dice' with different random values assigned to them, and they are balanced across a spectrum of what you'd expect if you rolled 2d6 72 times.  Swapping cards in/out changes the distribution of the 'die rolls' as well as changing the options available to the player.

[GJK]

It's like saying "I swapped the pair of six-sided dice for 8-sided dice so that I could get higher rolls.  The rules merely say 'a pair of dice are used for combat resolution' so we're all good".

[ArizonaTank]

He may be just skirting the edge of the rules...but certainly not following the spirit of the game in my book.  I wouldn't play that guy.

[Staggerwing]

Claiming that the rules don't specifically forbid sweetened decks seems a bit like going out West looking for road signs that say 'Drive as Weather Permits' and taking that as license to bolt surplus JATO packs onto your Ford Ranchero because it's not raining right then and there.

[Jack Nastyface]

It's like saying "I swapped the pair of six-sided dice for 8-sided dice so that I could get higher rolls.  The rules merely say 'a pair of dice are used for combat resolution' so we're all good".

FWIW...I've had opponent secretly swap out white dice for red dice on me.  Definately against the rules.

[Arctic Blast]

The laughter I would have spewed in to that guy's face...good grief.

[Cyrano]

I have here added another to the long litany of grievances I have with CCGs.

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)