Ps4 official info is out. So what do you think?

[jomni]

Biggest news for me is the online streaming thingy. Not clear if you can still play from a media disc or if everything is all stored in the cloud and your hdd.

They're really killing the used games market to maximize profits. But with this model I just hope it brings the prices of games down like Steam. Then it won't be much of an issue since ownership rights reserved are greatly diminished.

[TheCommandTent]

It is just me or does it seem like the with each new console developed by the industry they just seem to get closer and closer to what PCs gamers are already doing on their PCs?

[Grimnirsson]

Not clear if you can still play from a media disc or if everything is all stored in the cloud and your hdd.

They're really killing the used games market to maximize profits.

Games are still sold in a package mostly and used games are not blocked. So all is fine.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/sony-exec-playstation-4-doesnt-block-used-games

[JasonPratt]

All is not entirely fine, as Sony also confirmed there will be no backwards compatibility to even the PS3 (although all three previous generations can be played in the cloud, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) -- which okay I understand, the Cell architecture was a nightmare to program for and caused multi-platform problems, so they're (finally) going to an x86 solution. And then so much for backwards compatibility. I don't like it but I can understand it, and I don't resent it.

But more importantly, programs (or presumably other items like TV eps) bought on PSN won't transfer over to the new PS4. So it doesn't matter that in theory I can play Fight Night Champion (which I bought from PSN) on "the cloud", I have to rebuy the thing in practice. Or hook up (or keep hooked up) my PS3. Along with my PS2. Somewhere.

This isn't so harsh for me because, despite the fact my old original PS3 bit the final dust a month ago, I've invested in a brand-new PS3 and PS2. (A little more expensive than another old PS3, but I couldn't find a new old-one, only various grades of used. At this late date, I can't imagine their feasible remaining life is worth the cost.) Finding ways to keep them hooked to my TV will be onerous, and I don't like that I can't play PS2 games in 1080p (or the scaled up equivalent thereof) anymore--going back to 480p at best is going to hurt. And probably only a small fraction of Playstation owners like myself still play previous generation games.

But it's going to hurt most prior PS customers that the PS4 will ship without a significant built-in library. We all remember when the PS3 first released, and how difficult it was to find new games for it (much moreso ones worth playing) for the first few years. Making us rebuy older generation software just to have a library to play on the new system is douchey at least if not outright evil. I can't wait to see Jim Sterling's reaction at the Jimquisition. There should be epic profanity and sputtering.  :D

[Grimnirsson]

Jason,

ok, with that transfer problem you mention...not all is fine indeed. I was speaking from a Xbox user perspective so that Sony won't ban used games for me just means, digital only and used games banned is not a threat - neither for Sonyboys nor Xboxusers. The Sony press conference didn't have anything to make me switch the system anyway ;)

[Arctic Blast]

So, you CAN play PS1, 2 and 3 games, but they need to be streamed. So you can't throw your old discs in the drive and play.

This was just a weird, weird launch announcement. No even estimated price points. They didn't even show the damn console. Just dev after dev walking on stage, essentially saying that until now everything has been a bag of crap but NOW they can make games they wanted to make, and then showing demo reels...that look like games that already exist. The whole thing seemed to break down as 'You need this because bigger numbers and stuff, yo!' They did a terrible job of actually marketing the damn thing to anyone.

Then there's the fact that, when asked about used games, you have people saying things like "We expect that will perhaps be possible." Uhh...that isn't an answer. They really didn't answer ANY questions about the system with anything but nebulous 'non answers'.

[jomni]

Well Ps4 games are still in blu ray discs but ps1 to ps3 games have to be re bought if you want to pay them on the PS4. I so I'll be keeping my old PS3.

Actually there are PS1 and PS2 classic games that are available online in the PSN store but the library is not extensive. Wonder if they are able to make all old games available with their proposition.

[MIGMaster]

The PS3 is a fine bit of kit - it is a great substitute for a HTPC and the fact you can play games is cool too! I have a coupla friends who don't game at all and they love their PS3s for all of the media functionality, etc...  Kinda weird to see a console have that crossover potential.

[Staggerwing]

Hel, I just bought a PS3 for the first time last fall and now the talk of a PS4 with it's disdain for old game disks has gotten me even more interested in when the fabled Steambox makes it's first appearance.

[Grimnirsson]

So, you CAN play PS1, 2 and 3 games, but they need to be streamed. So you can't throw your old discs in the drive and play.

No, because the structure of the PS4 is apparently not able to get older programs to work and writing emulator codes for every game out there is an impossible
task.

This was just a weird, weird launch announcement. No even estimated price points. They didn't even show the damn console. Just dev after dev walking on stage, essentially saying that until now everything has been a bag of crap but NOW they can make games they wanted to make, and then showing demo reels...that look like games that already exist. The whole thing seemed to break down as 'You need this because bigger numbers and stuff, yo!' They did a terrible job of actually marketing the damn thing to anyone.

They most probably have not decided on the final design of the PS4 yet and the only thing in existence are dev kits of the hardware. And you have to think more from the company perspective not so much from the user perspective. Sony said that they would MS let do the first step in regard to a new console and that was a lie - for marketing reasons. Now they are actually the first announcing their new console and they have the interest of the media for them alone which is important. Giving out the price would be a mistake at this point, it's like a poker game between MS and Sony. I show you my controller and give out the specs, I show you...we will see what MS will play on the table in their turn. Don't forget the year is still young and there are game conventions coming and they need something to fuel the interest over a longer time since the PS4 (and the new Xbox) are obviously planned for a holiday launch near Christmas. So this announcement was not so much a marketing procedure to sell the console, but more the try to get the foot into the door of the media. It was not enough for Xbox users to think about a switch over to the PS4 because all that what was announced in terms of social networking and such will certainly be part of the Xbox 720 as well, it's the name of the game today. But as I said, I doubt that this was the idea anyway.

Then there's the fact that, when asked about used games, you have people saying things like "We expect that will perhaps be possible." Uhh...that isn't an answer. They really didn't answer ANY questions about the system with anything but nebulous 'non answers'.

The IGN link I gave makes it clear that this answer was given by a Sony official.

And here's another source for that official answer:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games


Again the year just started and they will give out more details step by step over the coming months. That and how MS is going to play their cards will make for an interesting year for console gamers :)

[JasonPratt]

Actually there are PS1 and PS2 classic games that are available online in the PSN store but the library is not extensive. Wonder if they are able to make all old games available with their proposition.

For some bizarre reason, PS3s have always been fully backward compatible with PS1 games. There doesn't have to be any conversion; I can plop my PS1 copy of Panzer General into the Blu at any time.

In theory, there's a software emulator for the PS2 (available for download from PSN) which will maybe play PS2 games, but only if they can be fully installed on the hard drive. I can think of exactly no PS2 games that fully install on the hard drive -- did the PS2 even have a hard drive?!? -- and if the emulator has ways of installing a game on the hard drive (which one might have thought was important), I haven't been able to figure it out.

Last... year...? PSN started offering classic PS2 games for sale and download; the library is relatively thin but grows slightly every month. (Whereas the library for PS1 games is far more extensive and continuing to grow.) I haven't bought one yet, so I can't tell if they've been converted to PS3 code (but not in a real HD upgrade fashion), or if they're just "hard drive installs" which use the emulator. The emulator is never mentioned in descriptions.

What burns is that Sony (and various studios like Square/Enix) talks about how much trouble it is to convert PS2 games to something the PS3 can play -- but it isn't. It obviously, demonstrably, isn't THAT much trouble. This can be easily proven by two indisputable facts.

1.) Sony and various studios have been releasing HD remixes of popular PS2 series like Prince of Persia and God of War for the past several years. Those games literally have nothing new to them except their graphics have been upscaled (and provided with 3D viewing code). No one had to go out and write all new code for them in Cell language, or if they did it wasn't all that hard because the games sell in trilogy or package sets for about the cost of a single regular game. Nor did anyone have to remake the cut-scenes from scratch. Nor did anyone have to go back and redo the voice acting. (A further observation: it is entirely possible to cheaply convert PSP titles to good quality PS3 HD upgrades, because they damn well do that, too, when they think there will be a few sales, the PSP God of War games and PSP Metal Gear games being prime examples. I own all the God of War games for PS3, never bought a single one for any other platform; I rebought the PoP Sands trilogy the moment it was available.)

Why no one has decided to release an HD remix of the PS2 versions of Max Payne 1 and 2 is beyond human comprehension and understanding; they had the perfect time to capitalize on that with MP3 last year. Oh, but they did spend the tiniest amount of effort possible, by releasing a downloadable version of PS2's version of MP1. Yeah, thanks, I'll keep my somewhat glitchy PC version, thanks.


2.) None of which matters in the slightest, because it is demonstrably easy to plug PS2 hardware (which by now must be dirt cheap to make) into PS3 code and just hand off. THAT'S WHAT THEY DID FOR THE FIRST WAVE OF PS3s! It worked absolutely perfectly fine, no problems at all. (Better than perfectly fine, because there was some incidental graphical upscaling.) They could offer a PS2 hardware option on selected PS3 models (say for an extra $50) at any damn moment they chose.

This one I kind of understand, because they wanted people to keep buying PS2s (which for several years still outsold PS3s), which they only finally stopped making last year (or maybe the year before). And for the longest time PS3s were being sold at about half the cost needed to produce them, so Sony totally lost money at a 1:2 ratio with every sale, hoping to make it back on the licensing fees. Selling PS2s helped with that. But don't tell me it's a real problem to run PS2 games on a PS3, and even better than they were on the PS2, because it clearly isn't when they want to.


Now I realize things are going to change again with the move to an x86 processing engine. But I refuse to believe they couldn't make room in those boxes for a PS2 hardware chip and some PS3 hardware chips. They could actually earn a little more money by offering the option; the PS2 hardware chip costs $6 to make, the PS3 chips maybe $18, sell it as a $50 option, everybody wins. (Well maybe the PS3 chips cost more than that, but the PS2 chips ought to be that cheap to produce by now.)

[JasonPratt]

They most probably have not decided on the final design of the PS4 yet and the only thing in existence are dev kits of the hardware.

That's understandable, and I got the impression that some of the devs were playing live code for their demonstrations. If so, that's what's important, not the actual design of the box the little chips and fans and BRplayer will come in.

I also agree, no point complaining about the price, they wouldn't give it out right now, and really does anyone have any reason to believe it won't be comparable to PS3 currently? If they go higher, they're competing directly (as they already are in a way) against cheap but increasingly functional PC rigs, including even laptops.

And it's true that they clarified later that the system won't block used games. But why not tell their reps about this two days earlier at the press conference? Why leave them hanging about whether it's okay to ALLEVIATE CUSTOMER FEARS about this? Did they seriously think that would be promotionally wise?! Did they not make the decision until after the conference?!? That was a dropped ball no matter how it's sliced, even if they scrambled over to pick it up again pronto.

[Grimnirsson]

And it's true that they clarified later that the system won't block used games. But why not tell their reps about this two days earlier at the press conference? Why leave them hanging about whether it's okay to ALLEVIATE CUSTOMER FEARS about this? Did they seriously think that would be promotionally wise?! Did they not make the decision until after the conference?!? That was a dropped ball no matter how it's sliced, even if they scrambled over to pick it up again pronto.

This story that both the Xbox '720' and the PS4 would block used games were rumors nothing more and the internet is full of such rumors. And even more these rumors were extremely unbelievable because it would be a suicide move for any console manufacturer to bring out a gaming rig that is blocking used games. Both Sony and MS know that games that are sold by gamers because they are through with them or lost interest in them allow these folks to buy new games. Even publishers know this and that's why they had this idea with the online pass so they get some piece of a used cake too so to say. Alienating the consumer base is not gonna happen and all analysts said that over and over but the rumor once born was there threatening the gaming community. Neither MS nor Sony said anything about it and one can ask why didn't they announce that it's of course nonsense, but they usually don't say much about such rumors and  I suppose this is simply to not have to deal with such internet stories over and over and over. It's much easier for them to say 'we don't comment on rumors'.

[JasonPratt]

Neither MS nor Sony said anything about it and one can ask why didn't they announce that it's of course nonsense, but they usually don't say much about such rumors and  I suppose this is simply to not have to deal with such internet stories over and over and over. It's much easier for them to say 'we don't comment on rumors'.

Except I gathered they were asked about it at the conference, and gave hemming and hawing vague answers instead of the easier, "HAHAHAHAHAHA!! No. And by no, we mean, no of course it won't block used games. That would be suicidal, we're not stupid."

On the other hand, if no one asked them, then there weren't even vague replies, and even that part was an urban legend born of fear that Sony would do something to cut off using pre-bought games, on the level of, for example, forbidding material already bought on PSN accounts to be downloaded for use on the new system.  :o

[Arctic Blast]

So, Ubisoft has already said that the Watch Dogs demo they ran was actually running on a PC. That makes me wonder how many other demos really were running on the Beta PS4 hardware?

I've now watched the entire launch announcement video.

-The guy demo-ing the car game (it's called Driveclub. Yes, really. I will never again complain about generic wargame titles) was creepy. This is a man who I truly believe has had sex with a car. He talks up how they've waited ten years to make this game because they couldn't do it before...and what was new? Stepping in to the car and buckling up from a first person perspective! Because people have clamored for this? The different carpet fibers are modeled...because people give a crap what the interior of the damn car model looks like? Weeeee? The social features sound interesting, but things like that aren't exactly new.

-David Cage spent his entire time on stage basically saying "Everything before now was crap!" Then he showed off an impressively modeled 3D head. Yes, it looked amazing, but there was absolutely nothing else going on on screen to pull system resources from it. So who cares? Cue blathering nonsense about how now it's about 'emotion' and the system is capable of producing it. Hey Dave, the only thing that will elicit an emotional response is GOOD WRITING, not MORE PIXELS. Also, we already heard the emotion speech with the PS3...and the PS2, for that matter.

-One dev after another talking about next generation experiences that they can finally produce...and then showing something that's currently do-able. Was the new Killzone pretty? Yep. It also looked like most other really nice PS3 titles.

-Wow, the online functionality will target what I see based on my gaming preferences. Did they actually use targeted advertising as a perk? Yes they did. Note to Sony : NOBODY enjoys advertising.

-Also a feature : Sleep mode! the system turns on much faster when you ht the power button. Seriously? Your entire corporation is financially falling apart, and this is what you're using to sell this thing?

-The game streaming tech looks interesting in terms of people doing live reviews and Let's Play sessions, but they offered no details at all. How many people can view a stream? How is this 'player hand off' going to work where someone watching a game stream can jump in? Beyond that, do people really want to devote time to watching someone else play something?

-How much can we stuff in to a controller? Let's pack some PS Move functionality in there AND throw in our own version of a Kinect bar AND whatever the Hell 'dynamic rumble' is. Hey, we can squeeze a tiny touch pad on the face of the damn thing, so let's do that as well! Any other gimmicks we can cram in?

Some things DID look good...the way that the system uses a completely separate chip set to download games and updates in the background is smart, especially since constant downloads were probably the biggest complaint about the PS3. But overall, this whole thing seemed rushed. It probably was pushed ahead to get in ahead of MS and create a buzz, which has happened. The problem is that the buzz is pretty much "Huh?" They've handed MS the chance to learn from Sony's mistakes and absolutely blow them out of the water.

This could have been a slam dunk, and it wouldn't have been difficult.

1. Shorten it. Why the Hell was this over 2 hours long? Too many people blathering on with meaningless platitudes about nothing. This EASILY could have been cut in half if they'd removed a bunch of the dull crap.

2. Figure out what your message is and STICK TO IT. First it was all about the gamer, then it's all about the experience, now it's all about emotion, back to being about the gamer, now it's about hardware...WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT? It seemed like they didn't know how to sell this thing. And if you don't know how to sell something, you're just creating market confusion (Nintendo and the WiiU is a great example of this).

The IGN link I gave makes it clear that this answer was given by a Sony official.

And here's another source for that official answer:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-tells-eurogamer-playstation-4-will-not-block-used-games

Except that it isn't quite that simple. http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/think-the-ps4-wil-be-best-friends-with-used-games-not-so-fast

After that discussion quoted in the Eurogamer article, Yoshida back tracked and said this :

"That's my expectation. That a PS4 game will work on hardware," he stated. "That's my expectation." The awkward sentence was likely due to Yoshida speaking in his second language, but he seemed to be indicating that used games will work on the PS4. It was an odd exchange, and he took a moment to find the words, and plan what he was going to say.

Another reporter asked again: Used games will work on PS4, correct?

"We have to really name our system and services for that, to be able to explain more about it," Yoshida told the room.

Sony then told Game Informer this :

We asked a Sony spokesperson about used-game lockouts, and were told the following:

"We are just now announcing the basic vision and strategy of PS4 and will have more information to share regarding used games later this year. But PlayStation has a long history of keeping its gamers happy and we won't make decisions that damage our relationship with them."

Does that mean people are jumping the gun with the ridiculous "No used gamez, PANIC!" nonsense? Yes. But that's also pretty damn far from an unequivocal confirmation of anything.