The "Uber" Command: Modern Air/Naval Ops Thread

[Dimitris]

"I was sending Tomcats back to base last night, by selecting the aircraft, pressing the 'U' hot key to remove it from an AAW patrol, and then right clicking on the unit and select RTB. That seemed to work for me."

4 clicks to issue one command?? why cant I right click a unit and issue a command? telling it to RTB should automatically unassign it from a mission. I should be able to right click a unit and get a drop down of commands I can issue. hovering your mouse over a unit should give me info such as weapons loadout, fuel left, weapons left, current mission. as others have stated, the info is available is just needs to be more easily accessed. 4 clicks to issue a RTB, seems silly to me when you might have hundreds of units.

And they should be able to RTB themselves.   Can they?

Yes, they should be able to. When a pilot determines he's bingo (this depends on a number of factors incl. the presence of tankers and his doctrine setting to use them or not) or winchester (this depends on the loadout & mission) the normal & expected course of action is to RTB.

[CptHowdy]

"I was sending Tomcats back to base last night, by selecting the aircraft, pressing the 'U' hot key to remove it from an AAW patrol, and then right clicking on the unit and select RTB. That seemed to work for me."

4 clicks to issue one command?? why cant I right click a unit and issue a command? telling it to RTB should automatically unassign it from a mission. I should be able to right click a unit and get a drop down of commands I can issue. hovering your mouse over a unit should give me info such as weapons loadout, fuel left, weapons left, current mission. as others have stated, the info is available is just needs to be more easily accessed. 4 clicks to issue a RTB, seems silly to me when you might have hundreds of units.

Getting unassigned from a mission when RTBing is not always a good idea. Let's say you have some fighters on AAW sweeps. They go up, dish it out, their winchester or bingo triggers kick in and they RTB. Do you want them pulled off the mission? No, you want them to head back, get turned around and up in the air again ASAP to continue the battle.

if they are RTB because they are Winchester or bingo then no they shouldn't be unassigned, they are doing this on their own. if I manually tell them to RTB it is for a reason so they should drop mission automatically. spelk stated he had to unassign his tomcats to get them to RTB so whether or not it's a good idea is moot at this point. he will have to assign them another mission or the same mission again which will take how many more clicks? my point is why did he have to manually RTB them in the first place and why does it take 4 clicks to do so?

[jomni]

Broke down and bought.  What a big download.  :P

[Nefaro]

Yeah, I like the idea of automatically Unassigning them if the player hits the RTB button.  Otherwise they can RTB, R&R, and be back at their leisure while staying on-mission.  I generally only create Missions on a single-use basis, anyway, aside from the occasional 1/3rd patrol that's most likely to be used with the moving reference points in front of task forces.   Mainly because the situation will be different after the lengthy time it takes to rearm & refuel them.   Even if we want the Mission to continue, we can just go into the Editor and add more aircraft to it.  I mean.. Unassigned the last a/c in a Mission won't automatically delete that Mission, right?

I have some more suggestions from my experiences last night:

1) Add show/hide toggle for the reference points affixed to specific units/groups.  The ones that move with them.  Much like the Num9 key does for switching between groups and individual units, but make it so that you can turn the display of these off & on, on the map.  With the three surface groups in the FOST scenario, running in parallel, I was getting a huge mess of reference point 'X's all over the map and I even ended up dragging & dropping some of the wrong ones because they got so intermingled.   It became way too cluttered.  This is the one big drawback I see of not having such patrol missions within the Formation Editor - the extra map clutter.

a) Another point regarding the Numpad hotkeys.  Can we please have these adjusted to be usable with NumLock on?  This is an antiquated holdover from DOS days, and I'd rather not have to remember to turn NumLock on and off before/after playing Command.  I'm pretty sure there are separate key command references for NumPad numbers than the top row numbers on keyboards.  I don't know of any one who leaves their NumLock off by default, in everyday Windows use.  I had mentioned this one before, but thought I'd reiterate here in case it was missed.  If nothing else, give these same commands both options?

2)  Place an Automatic Evasion checkbox on the Info window, to the right.  I've had to use this in order to fire BOL shots with subs quite a bit, otherwise when a torpedo is detected, it will quickly turn around and run before I can get a shot off into it's forward firing arc, down the bearing.   This may end up being more of an issue in other ASW situations, with surface vessels too, but I'm not sure yet.  I just know that I had to keep opening the ROE window over & over to toggle it on & off between encounters.  Otherwise my subs wouldn't fire a counter-shot unless I quickly did this and ordered the BOL before it had turned too much.

3) Add a Preparing For Take-Off list to Airfields. A drop-down list on the right info panel, for airfields that has a list of a/c prep'ing for take-off and their estimated time to do so. This would save having to open the Airfield's Aircraft List, clicking the right tab, and scanning through the bottom to see which aircraft are preparing for take-off.  I find myself regularly checking on the time left to take-off for various a/c and having to drill down that far, on a regular basis, could be easily avoided if we had a drop-down list on the unit info panel, for airfields.

a) Just a reminder about JD's suggestion to link the a/c in the Airfields' Aircraft window to their database directly.   Otherwise, we're having to memorize the loadout, close the airfield window, open the 'Game' dropdown menu at top, select Scenario Platform Browser, click the + sign next to they type (surf/air/land) and then scan to find the aircraft type & double-click it.  We just need a double click functionality in that a/c list to directly go there.  This is probably a good example of why it feels like struggling against the UI.

b) Also on the Airfield Aircraft page, can we have a button that opens all the sub-menu '+'s at once?  I dunno if I'd use it a huge amount but there are times when I want to use that sweet Escort option in the Mission Editor, and add more than one type of aircraft.  So all I'd have to do is scroll down without clicking to open extra sub-menus.  Not a huge deal on this one, just an extra convenience.  I'm also a bit unsure about opening all those '+' submenus because opening only one at a time tends to take a second or two, and may be related to performance issues.  Not sure if things may freeze up with them all opening at once, right now.

I'll drop some more as I remember them. 

I've found that when it comes to testers & suggestions, each one tends to have their own focus when it comes to suggestions for improvement.  A specialty of sorts.  I tend to gravitate towards UI suggestions (as does JD?), and see some user-friendliness issues as pretty obvious even though not everyone else immediately does.   But many are quite happy with such UI improvements, when they see them implemented, and regularly say as much. 

On the other hand, I'm not much of a "numbers" guy in testing, so I'm not very good at catching some of the little oddities or differences in number calculations, databases, etc unless they're pretty big and blatant.  Some of those guys amaze me, they watch those things like hawks.


On another note, are you guys going to create some kind of Weapons Database?  I can suffice without it, although it would be some nice extra fluff.  But where it would help most is for those who haven't been long-time Harpooners or Naval Warfare enthusiasts.  I think the biggest learning curve with these games is figuring out how each weapon and sensor is supposed to work.  If nothing else, having a short description for how each type of weapon is deployed would probably help some of the new blood.  I mean.. they probably look at the stats for Anti-sub Rockets and wonder why a torpedo can do 600kts, not realizing that it flies through the air most of the distance, before dropping a torpedo.  ;D  Just an example but some generic info explaining such things for each specific type of weapon would be good.


*Crit'd by another wall of text from Nef*  :-\

[Dimitris]

Yes, a dedicated weapon page (similar to the ones we already have for planes, ships etc.) is in the cards.

[JudgeDredd]

Here's some requests regarding the editor...

1. Remember previously selected options (Type, Side, Country) - already mentioned
2. Allow resizing of columns (when no country is selected, it's difficult to read all the country information
3. Allow another selection category...for example aircraft - the role of the aircraft (bombers, fighters, fighter bombers, helicopters) - and if you can't do that, then have that as a sortable column
4. Allow double clicking to get the platform database for the selected item - I have NO IDEA what the things are you are listing under platform - and worse I cannot get to the Database Viewer to see what the platform is - so I have no idea if it's what I want to add to my scenario!!
5. (as with other windows) don't have them prominent outside the game window...so I can ALT-TAB to use the internet and not have to move the window out the way or close it - already mentioned
6. When Adding Unit - allow me to add more than one at a time

Number 4 (for me) makes the editor almost useless at the moment. I can't create anything really meaningful because I don't know what the platforms are or what they are capable of. I have a military background (7 years in HM British Army) - so there are things in there I know of...but the vast majority are totally unknown to me...what is a Radar (HF-200 Mk3 HF) or a SAM Plt (Starstreak II LML) and what are it's capabilities? No idea!

[Dimitris]

1. Remember previously selected options (Type, Side, Country) - already mentioned

Will do.

2. Allow resizing of columns (when no country is selected, it's difficult to read all the country information

If it's practical, yes.

3. Allow another selection category...for example aircraft - the role of the aircraft (bombers, fighters, fighter bombers, helicopters) - and if you can't do that, then have that as a sortable column

Will check to see if we can do that.

4. Allow double clicking to get the platform database for the selected item - I have NO IDEA what the things are you are listing under platform - and worse I cannot get to the Database Viewer to see what the platform is - so I have no idea if it's what I want to add to my scenario!!

Let me check that.

5. (as with other windows) don't have them prominent outside the game window...so I can ALT-TAB to use the internet and not have to move the window out the way or close it - already mentioned

This has been dogging us for a while.

6. When Adding Unit - allow me to add more than one at a time

If you mean add more than one unit of the same exact type, you can already do that: Place the first unit, select it and press "C" (the cursor will change to a hand). Click on the desired map location and a clone of the first unit will appear there.

[JudgeDredd]

Thank you Dimitris.

2. The columns have the standard separator - and I'm sure I resized a column in another window somewhere (though I can't be too sure)
3. I pointed this out because I wanted to place some bombers and fighters - and it's a bit cumbersome looking through the list of units reading the descriptions to see what is what...and the unit identification doesn't mean anything to me for the majority of stuff...and the text wasn't consistent in the description box (like tabular) so it was difficult to pull the relevant bit out...not impossible - just difficult.
4. I really think that double clicking on a platform from ANY window where there's a platform is a must
5 isn't a huge issue - thought I would mention it because it happens - and it's the only program I know of (read remember) that does that.
6 is clearly down to me and the manual. I actually saw that in the key shortcut list in the manual.

Thanks for listening to a grumbling old Scot (is there any other kind?)

[JudgeDredd]

Is there anyway to make the message log clickable so that when you get a message relating to a unit it takes you to the unit? I guess if at all it could only be clickable in the window...because you don't want to get to the stage where there's a unit under the message log on screen - and trying to click on it took you to the subject of the message.

Also - map manoeuvrability - can we have the middle mouse button depressed to use to drag the map?

I was a wee bit disappointed to see the same scenario (First Contact 2016) played out pretty much the same - Norwegian units where they were in play video, the Norwegian chopper in the same location in my game as the play video. Can I ask whether scenarios are randomised in anyway or do they play out the same each time (in terms of starting positions of units)?

[Dimitris]

Most definitely yes, you can set up any number of units to have random starting locations within defined areas. You can also use the same mechanism to "teleport" units into theater, to model incoming reinforcements, either for you or the enemy.

For an example of random start locations, see "Maria & Victoria" (I know, Argie sub....) or "Trapped Under Ice".

Thanks!

[JudgeDredd]

A few more things before I go to bed...

In the First Contact 2016 scenario...

1. In the picture, I couldn't get the select unit to switch off Radar. Now - you may think "Why were you doing that" and the answer is - I don't know. I guessed switching off radar would reduce the chance of incoming missiles hitting...I don't know much about naval warfare (clearly!)...anyway, I loaded the Sensors thingy, switched off radar...had a warning I was overriding something which I responded OK to and the radar seemed to flash (switch off for a millisecond and then come back on) - and sure enough when I clicked the sensors again, the radar was back on...why wouldn't it listen to me (and if this is another option somewhere, this is a prime example of the interface fighting you...I shouldn't have to go looking for another option to toggle to get the platform to do what I want...if however it's again my lack of knowledge - then virtually slap me and move along)

2. The yellow box - how to I get to see the weapons available on one of those ships? I know I can see what they carry by clicking on them and getting the database viewer - but how do I get to see what they have left?

3. This is where I was speaking of when I suggested that weapon loadout/remaining should be shown...even as a (hideable list like the Doctrine...but defaulted to showing)


In the same scenario, I selected the group (either one - didn't matter) and tried to click on the other platform - and was unable to...but I'm sure I was able to do that before - even in this scenario I'm sure.

Also - performance definitely seemed to get worse as the scenario went on...but I will check that further tomorrow.

And finally - I decided (as I had lost a ship from each group) that I would join the two remaining ships into a group...no reason - just trying it. Anyway I couldn't. I tried pressing D to detach a unit from the group, but that did nothing. I kept trying, in both groups...nothing. In the end, I thought maybe it was because they were the only units in their respective groups and therefore not actually in a group. So I selected both units and pressed G to group them...and was informed of this...

So I was unable to drop them from a group and unable to group them.

[JudgeDredd]

Most definitely yes, you can set up any number of units to have random starting locations within defined areas. You can also use the same mechanism to "teleport" units into theater, to model incoming reinforcements, either for you or the enemy.

For an example of random start locations, see "Maria & Victoria" (I know, Argie sub....) or "Trapped Under Ice".

Thanks!

Great to know.

[JudgeDredd]

And lastly

I got this again...only second time...but out of 4 games (of prolonged play...other times I've booted it up for a mess around...mostly on the editor) that's a 50% hang rate  :(

[Dimitris]

1. Let us look into that. It may be an interface anomaly or core bug.

2. You are in group-view. To see the weapons of each ship you must switch to unit-view ("9" on keypad) and then select each ship and you will see a "Weapons" button appear on the unit status window.

WRT performance and crashes, we are now testing a new build which has fixed all known crashes and improved performance. Won't be long.

Thanks!

[Grim.Reaper]

So besides the ui and such, how is the actual gameplay?  Entertaining?  Is it engaging?  Is it easy to learn?

I'm really enjoying it.  It's been easy to pick up for me, and engaging enough that I spent all of yesterday when I had free time thinking about a better approach to the first tutorial mission.  When I played that evening I replayed the mission and was able to implement what I'd been thinking about without a lot of fumbling around.  Turned out to be a better approach and I did much better than the first time I played.

I then went on to play the second tutorial, in command of a SSN, which I was able to finish in about 45 minutes.  In the third phase of the tutorial I departed from the guided approach in the tutorial and launched a bearing only torpedo attack on a Russian DD, which immediately sent a pair of ASW helicopters after me.  There were a few tense moments as my fish went hunting for the DD and my sub went evasive trying to get away from the torpedoes dropped by the helos!  I really enjoyed that scenario.

What I'm finding is that if you try and micromanage units that are tasked with a mission via the mission editor, you're going to have a bad time.  An F-14 assigned to an AAW patrol mission is not going to RTB when you tell it to as long as it's still assigned to the mission.  If you want it to RTB, remove it from the mission and then tell it to RTB.  If the same aircraft isn't assigned to a mission, you can give it all sorts of orders - in fact, you probably will have to give it very specific orders if you try and perform a manual attack, for example, because the AI won't automatically posture the aircraft at the correct speed and altitude for a weapons release on it's own (it will if you use the automatic attack option).  That approach/behavior may be very frustrating and unclear to some players and I can understand why. It doesn't bug me.

Similarly, when the USS North Carolina was evading torpedoes last night, I couldn't control her.  I had the Evade check box ticked, and her crew was automatically evading.  I could have taken over and done the evasion myself, and a lot of players will want to.  I don't - I'm the CO, or the Admiral sitting in the TOC.  I want to let my well-trained crew handle the evasion while I worry about the mission and strategy. I don't want to see pictures of boats and airplanes, I want symbols on what looks like a radar screen or satellite map.  When playing NWAC or Fleet  Command if I could have completely turned off the 3D view port showing the ship and aircraft models, I would have.

When I play Command Ops, If I'm a regimental commander I give orders to the battalion COs and let them handle deployments except in the rare case where I want to detach a company to guard a flank or reinforce a position.  I'm finding I enjoy playing this the same way.  So, YMMV, what i find engaging might really put you off.  I'm enjoying the hell out of it, but I think I may have different game play expectations and I'm not having the performance issues that others very clearly are having.

Thank you for the response...seeing a ton of recommendations in this thread which most seem like reasonable requests makes me wonder if I should hold off...hate to get frustrated by the UI, but at the same time I could at least start diving into the details....I doubt I will survive the weekend without purchasing, but we'll see:)