The "Uber" Command: Modern Air/Naval Ops Thread

[undercovergeek]

AMRAAMs - i launched 2 yesterday at a target that id firmed up enough for launch but obviously not enough to hit the target, when the missile got to where the target should be it turned out to be somewhere else, no biggie - something im not understnading i reckon

So when the AMRAAM is launched and its clear it needs a little help with guidance, do i switch on the planes radar to sort out the acquisition or do i switch on the missiles own radar?

[Skoop]

I wasn't aware you had to micro manage missle launch from individual AC in command.  I can say that in other sims like Dcs or falcon, you designate the target with the planes radar then the amram120 will go pitbull (on it's own radar) once it is in range for that.  Most western fighters have sophisticated radars that support track while scan so you can lock up 2 or 3 targets at once and put a 120 down range on each one.  Not sure if this is all modelled in command though, be interesting to see what Dymitrius says about it.

[mikeck]

Was this a "bad" radar location or a decoy? I guess what I'm wondering is if your radar actually picked up a target in that location but once the missile arrived the computer brain realized it was an electronic or physician ghost/decoy?  Is that possible?

[undercovergeek]

i couldnt launch the missiles until a certain amount of resolution was achieved and then when i did twice the missile lost its lock and ended up beyond the target, it tried to reacquire but then was out of fuel - its worth noting that i play with all sensors and radars off until necessary

[Nefaro]

AMRAAMs - i launched 2 yesterday at a target that id firmed up enough for launch but obviously not enough to hit the target, when the missile got to where the target should be it turned out to be somewhere else, no biggie - something im not understnading i reckon

So when the AMRAAM is launched and its clear it needs a little help with guidance, do i switch on the planes radar to sort out the acquisition or do i switch on the missiles own radar?

While AMRAAMs have their own active radar seeker, it's only activated in the final attack once it is closer to the target.  So the launching craft still needs to guide it to the target much of the distance in long range shots. 

In other words, it still needs radar guidance from the launching aircraft until it goes active and to do so requires a hard radar fix to be effective at anything but short range.  I'm not sure how deeply this mix of semi-active and active-homing is modelled in CMANO but I'm sure the launcher requires it's radar to be active in the game in order to direct the weapon to the activation point.

[undercovergeek]

yeah, i always lost acquisition when i turned the F35 away, the times i fired following the missile in it hit the 2 F7s

[Skoop]

AMRAAMs - i launched 2 yesterday at a target that id firmed up enough for launch but obviously not enough to hit the target, when the missile got to where the target should be it turned out to be somewhere else, no biggie - something im not understnading i reckon

So when the AMRAAM is launched and its clear it needs a little help with guidance, do i switch on the planes radar to sort out the acquisition or do i switch on the missiles own radar?

While AMRAAMs have their own active radar seeker, it's only activated in the final attack once it is closer to the target.  So the launching craft still needs to guide it to the target much of the distance in long range shots. 
J
In other words, it still needs radar guidance from the launching aircraft until it goes active and to do so requires a hard radar fix to be effective at anything but short range.  I'm not sure how deeply this mix of semi-active and active-homing is modelled in CMANO but I'm sure the launcher requires it's radar to be active in the game in order to direct the weapon to the activation point.

As sophisticated as the 120c or d model is at going active, the fact that you still have to get realitively close to get an high near hundred percentage  kill, always made me wonder why the pheonix missles where nixed with that 50nm range.  I guess the joint chiefs said they don't need'em when f-22s and 35s can't be detected, so they easily get into 120 amraam range. But still a guided missle with 50nm range, why would we not continue that capability ?

[GibbyG]

The main mission of the Phoenix was fleet defense against long range Soviet bombers.  They were not effective against small, more agile fighters.  As the Soviet threat went away, so did the need for the missile.  IIRC, it was an expensive weapon as well.

[Huw the Poo]

As a point of interest, what does air doctrine say about a 1v1 BVR missile engagement when both parties fire missiles?  Do you keep your nose pointed at the enemy until your missile goes pitbull, or do you evade?

[Coiler]

The main mission of the Phoenix was fleet defense against long range Soviet bombers.  They were not effective against small, more agile fighters.  As the Soviet threat went away, so did the need for the missile.  IIRC, it was an expensive weapon as well.

You can try the planned successor to the AIM-54, the AIM-152 AAAM, in Command. What-if Tomcat variants and the F-24 (think naval F-22) are in the DB3K.

[Skoop]

As a point of interest, what does air doctrine say about a 1v1 BVR missile engagement when both parties fire missiles?  Do you keep your nose pointed at the enemy until your missile goes pitbull, or do you evade?

Not sure what official doctrine is, but when I face an su27 in my f15c in dcs in a head on merge, I fire a 120c as soon as I can and keep it locked until it goes active.  This has the effect of keeping them from firing one at you because they are forced defensive.  I even let fly outside the recommended launch parameters with the override switch just to gain initiative, then follow up with a 120c launched in high kill parameters.  Because the f15c can lock and launch on multiple targets, I'll put a 120c on the wingman too if my wingman hasn't engaged already.  Pretty effective, and hey, the f15 has never been beaten in Rl a2a combat.

[Skoop]

The main mission of the Phoenix was fleet defense against long range Soviet bombers.  They were not effective against small, more agile fighters.  As the Soviet threat went away, so did the need for the missile.  IIRC, it was an expensive weapon as well.

Good point, big target.... big missile, but what about a super entendard firing excocets or an su25 firing kayaks, you don't think tomcats would put phoenix missiles downrange to make those planes break off from their firing runs ? 

Come to think of it, has the phoenix ever been fired in anger ?

Anyways, this is what's great about Command, you can test this stuff out.

[GibbyG]

Fired twice by the US.  Both misses.  Iran has claimed kills with theirs its Iran so who really knows.

[RyanE]

Quick search using "phoenix" and got a couple threads with a little insight specific to the AIM-54 and AAM missile combat in general.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3601682&mpage=1&key=phoenix&#3605421

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3499924&mpage=2&key=phoenix&#3520509

[OJsDad]

If I remember correctly, the Phoenix burned it's fuel pretty quickly, but because of speed and it's path actually being an arc, it could cover the entire range.  Because of burning it's fuel quickly, it didn't have anyway be make the radical turns that a smaller aircraft could make.