The "Uber" Command: Modern Air/Naval Ops Thread

[Bison]

Maybe....

[RyanE]

I didn't go after anyone.  He is plain wrong in stating that something like Fraps will do the same thing.  So I'll spell it out...

1) Records entire session of game
2) Replays session
3) All menus of game are active
4) Views can be changed
5) is organic to game
6) You can jump into the game at any point of the recording

If the feature was so simple as Fraps, I suspect the pro users wouldn't be very interested.

[Zulu1966]

The Steam forum is more measured and polite then this place has become.

I am guessing you have no idea what the feature does.  Show me a program that does what the record/replay feature did?

Considering I've been playing since right before the initial launch I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.

As for recording software; OBS, Bandicam, FRAPS, just to name a few.

I agree. I purchased a game with a certain content. It's BS for the developer to turn around and remove a feature I paid for. Imagine a car. You got it loaded. 1 year after you bought it, they replace your power seat adjustment with a manual seat. Then they tell you that if you want the power seat back, you have to pay for the pro upgrade. The fact that you never used the power seat adjustment is not the point

So the devs offered 11 FREE car services when you actually wanted to pay for those services? Sure they will keep that in mind going forward.

Well - none of those are an in game replay feature. And what is the point of your second point - they release upgrades - hardly an original concept - and that has a very sound commercial basis - it keeps people buying the game, DLC and likely anything they put out in the future - plus it enables them to develop the pro version.

Look Kushan - simply defending the indefensible because you have some connection with the game is simply not a sustainable position. You cannot possibly be defending a move to remove content from a game people have bought and paid for simply to establish a differential so they can sell that differential elsewhere. We are not even talking about them building additional features for the Pro version and not including them in the commercial version - we are talking about them retrospectively removing a feature from a game so they can establish that differential. Forgetting how big what they removed is please explain to me your logic in defending the principle of that ? I am not even sure I can remember anyone doing what they have done in any game  ever ? I am the worlds worst cynic - but jeezzz these guys have beaten me by a country mile.

[RyanE]

I don't begrudge the devs making money.  I want them to make money.  I would pay for the features they have put in already.  But taking things out of retail and putting them into pro is a very cheap way to differentiate the versions.  Its taking from one to increase the other.  It portends some very bad things about the direction of the game.  Now I am suddenly suspicious that all the "cool" things being put into the game for retail are being put in to support pro.  Maybe we'll see some of those things move over and not be available.

I noticed a couple months ago that a dev said that comms jamming would be in the retail version.  Suddenly, its only in the pro version.  Wouldn't have thought twice about it, except this current issue makes me think its not technical problems at all for comms jamming.

These guys were a dev group I trusted and they wanted to do the right thing and loved the game as much as players.  Now I am seeing a side of the devs that makes me realize I shouldn't trust anyone trying to make money off of me.

[jamus34]

In all honesty this is worse to me than if they were to just say "Hey, the retail version is done and complete, no more updates for it but if you want a product that will continue to be support please buy the 'Pro' version".

This is even worse than day 1 DLC that ships on the game disc but they (devs and probably more precisely publishers) expect you to pay an additional $20 on top of the $50-$60 you just did to unlock it.

Oh and behold instead of making sure the game was launch ready the release a buggy mess, spend time on DLC and maybe in a month or three they will patch the game up.



I understand game development isn't cheap. And I don't fault a dev for wanting to make money. But to remove a feature from a retail release just so they can repackage in a higher priced version is unethical at best and criminal at worst.

To me it comes down to why did they remove it. I mean they spent coding time to actively take out functionality. It wasn't a whoops and it wasn't an accident.

It is almost as ridiculous a situation as the Dongle(tm) incident. Maybe moreso.

[Jarhead0331]

Just for the record, not the first time this has happened.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2013/11/21/when-product-features-disappear-amazon-apple-tesla-and-the-troubled-future-for-21st-century-consumers/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100331/0128358800.shtml

http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/04/29/sony-sued-for-removal-of-linux-support-from-ps3

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/11-18066/11-18066-2014-01-06.html

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/11-18066/11-18066-2014-01-06.html

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-might-owe-you-money-heres-why/1100-6441109/
I do believe there will be law on this someday, if there isn't already precedent.

EDIT - there already is precedent and it looks like the case was settled. I'm going to look into this in more detail, but it appears there is a possibility that a court could have found that removal of features from software that has been paid for is a violation of certain statutes and laws. 

The last link from October 2016 reveals Sony settled the case by paying at least $55 to a class of 10,000,000. Do the math.

I hope Dmitris is still reading this thread.

[mirth]

Just for the record, not the first time this has happened.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2013/11/21/when-product-features-disappear-amazon-apple-tesla-and-the-troubled-future-for-21st-century-consumers/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100331/0128358800.shtml

I do believe there will be law on this someday, if there isn't already precedent.

Good finds.

While these Amazon, Google, Apple and Tesla examples may appear disconnected, taken together they are the harbinger of the future for 21st century consumers. Cloud-based updates and products have changed the landscape for consumers. The product you bought today may not be the product you own later.

[jamus34]

Just for the record, not the first time this has happened.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2013/11/21/when-product-features-disappear-amazon-apple-tesla-and-the-troubled-future-for-21st-century-consumers/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100331/0128358800.shtml

I do believe there will be law on this someday, if there isn't already precedent.

I remember the Amazon kerfluffle.

Hell, what about the MMO's who know they are going to close doors but don't say anything and get customers to purchase their software up to the day it shuts down. In general I try to stay away from any software that requires "constant internet access" because what happens if the powers that be decide to turn the servers off? Losing MP is one thing...but having a program unusable is unacceptable. I'm waiting to see what new wrench Adobe throws out there now they went this route. "Oh, now we need to charge you per file modified"...

It is also one of my strongest arguments against "usage rights"

If a media company (software, music, movie, etc) say I only have the right use their media, that I don't own it then guess what, as long as I can prove I purchased the "license" you should have to give me access. That means if my CD wears out I should either have the option of having it replaced or being able to DL the songs from the web...I mean I purchase the "licensing rights" to your media, correct?

[RyanE]

While I think taking a legal approach is a little over the top.  I mean, the devs have been pretty good up to this point.  I am just curious to see if this issue goes any further.  I am worried that these devs tend to get a little vindictive when things don't go their way.  Its basically how the game got built.  I just don't want them to take any angst out on the product.

btw, the issue has just penetrated over on the main game forum.  We'll see how that plays out.  Maybe no one cares.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4234287

I noted the same approach on their forum...look what else we have for you.  No one has asked what they might be taking away to make room for this new thing.

[RyanE]

I didn't go after anyone.  He is plain wrong in stating that something like Fraps will do the same thing.  So I'll spell it out...

1) Records entire session of game
2) Replays session
3) All menus of game are active
4) Views can be changed
5) is organic to game
6) You can jump into the game at any point of the recording

If the feature was so simple as Fraps, I suspect the pro users wouldn't be very interested.

I don't like quoting myself, but its easier.

Am I wrong?  Is there an app out there that does the above?  Was my assumption too broad?  Is Kushan reading this?

[Con]

Good lord RyanE

Two major game developer escalating issues that I 100% agree with that you have blown up in the last couple of months!  Instead of PimpHand you have TrollHand

Please let me know what else you play regularly but are casting a hairy eyeball on so that I can be prepared to avoid it as well

Con
PS Just to reiterate I am shocked that the same author has uncovered two totally separate but major developer faux pas along with a disturbing lack of empathy for the gamers that got them started.

[RyanE]

Fortunately/Unfortunately Command and SB were 80% of my gaming time over the last year.  I do play a little CM and some IL2 Stalingrad.

What's funny is this one started out innocuous enough and then went all pear shaped.  If the dev hadn't come in and stomped around a little, this discussion would have been 4 or 5 posts.

[bostonmyk]

Just for the record, not the first time this has happened.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2013/11/21/when-product-features-disappear-amazon-apple-tesla-and-the-troubled-future-for-21st-century-consumers/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100331/0128358800.shtml

http://www.ign.com/articles/2010/04/29/sony-sued-for-removal-of-linux-support-from-ps3

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/11-18066/11-18066-2014-01-06.html

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/11-18066/11-18066-2014-01-06.html

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-might-owe-you-money-heres-why/1100-6441109/
I do believe there will be law on this someday, if there isn't already precedent.

EDIT - there already is precedent and it looks like the case was settled. I'm going to look into this in more detail, but it appears there is a possibility that a court could have found that removal of features from software that has been paid for is a violation of certain statutes and laws. 

The last link from October 2016 reveals Sony settled the case by paying at least $55 to a class of 10,000,000. Do the math.

I hope Dmitris is still reading this thread.

The release is currently in beta. Users have an option to download it or not. Change isn't permanent yet.

Got any links on that?

Thanks

Mike

[bostonmyk]

Fortunately/Unfortunately Command and SB were 80% of my gaming time over the last year.  I do play a little CM and some IL2 Stalingrad.

What's funny is this one started out innocuous enough and then went all pear shaped.  If the dev hadn't come in and stomped around a little, this discussion would have been 4 or 5 posts.

Yeah probably but you also failed to mention its a beta which is a big miss.

How often do you use this feature and how often do you think others do? Part of the Beta is figuring out if changes are acceptable correct?

Mike

[bostonmyk]

I didn't go after anyone.  He is plain wrong in stating that something like Fraps will do the same thing.  So I'll spell it out...

1) Records entire session of game
2) Replays session
3) All menus of game are active
4) Views can be changed
5) is organic to game
6) You can jump into the game at any point of the recording

If the feature was so simple as Fraps, I suspect the pro users wouldn't be very interested.

I don't like quoting myself, but its easier.

Am I wrong?  Is there an app out there that does the above?  Was my assumption too broad?  Is Kushan reading this?

Yeah its pretty unique. Fact is though I've seen maybe one recording used anywhere and same for everybody else. Are we wrong? Do you record much?

Thanks

Mike