GrogHeads Forum

So I'm just curious what you all prefer when it comes to taking in tabletop AARs.

There's various pros and cons to each of the above options. I've vacillated back and forth between VASSAL and actual images of a game on a table and think they're both effective, though I wonder if VASSAL just doesn't look 'cleaner' and easier on the eyes. The only problem I have with VASSAL is, I like to be able to see everything at once. I know I can scroll a VASSAL board, but it honestly annoys me somewhat that most of a board is out of sight/out of mind.

A video seems to be a viable third option, but that takes up much more time.

I know some of you would probably reply, "I don't care, it's however you want to do it because it's your time in doing an AAR," which is fine, too. But surely you have an opinion, in any case.

Let me know, if you don't mind. I'm leaving this poll open for just over one week, with the results displayed after the poll expires.

Non-vassal stills and text.

I watch very few video AARs.

Agreed

+3

Non-VASSAL stills are nice and all but if yer playing on VASSAL it's just easier to take screen grabs.
When I post a solo game I do the real thing. But for stuff like what SDR and I are doing the screen grabs make more sense.

I don't watch videos.

Well sure. If you're playing via Vassal, I'd expect screenies from Vassal. I don't expect someone to set the physical game up just to do the pics  :crazy2:

I like the Vassal images as they don't suffer from flash, reflections, poor angles, etc.

Mostly, what I'd like to see is if an AAR gets started, then it gets completed.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on October 16, 2017, 10:27:06 PM
Mostly, what I'd like to see is if an AAR gets started, then it gets completed.

:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

Quote from: BanzaiCat on October 16, 2017, 04:19:39 PM
So I'm just curious what you all prefer when it comes to taking in tabletop AARs.

  I read all the ARRs here.  I like the finished and the unfinished.  I like the VASSAL and the tables of miniature things.  I haven't watched very may videos of gaming for more than a few minutes.

   Obviously, I admit to a certain preference for attempting to photograph the game board.  There's a lot going on there (sort of, some times): unstable piles of units and markers, maps from other games showing up on the edges, shadows, murk, indistinct haze.

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on October 16, 2017, 10:27:06 PM
I like the Vassal images as they don't suffer from flash, reflections, poor angles, etc.

Mostly, what I'd like to see is if an AAR gets started, then it gets completed.

I think more might get completed if there were more interest in them. I know I started a Don't Tread on Me AAR and it received a good number of views but no comments. I just guessed that no one was interested and stopped. It does take a lot of time and work to put together a really good AAR.

Quote from: mirth on October 16, 2017, 10:29:07 PM

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on October 16, 2017, 10:27:06 PM
Mostly, what I'd like to see is if an AAR gets started, then it gets completed.

:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

This is one of the reasons why I ask. Besides my job keeping me insanely busy these last three months, I know I can find time to actually do more AAR pieces (especially Outpost Gamma). Thing is, though, I'm not highly motivated to do an AAR using Photoshop or VASSAL or otherwise through the computer.

However, if that's what people LIKE, then that's what I will do. If they do not, there's not much of a point, is there?

That one (OG) is small enough that I can continue it. And I will...I'm just trying to get through the next few weeks of this project and then things should quiet down for me. I've been having to work nights and weekends on top of normal day work to get this done, so it's affected my production around here. That OG AAR, I have to do it on my work laptop, because Photoshop is on it. And I'm usually on it to do actual work. And after 14+ hours or so of it in a day, I'm not all that motivated to keep working on my laptop. :(

I'll be honest - like bbmike said, I can see a number of views on my AARs, which always blows my mind, but then there isn't that much actual feedback, so that makes me think I'm spinning my wheels with that AAR. I'd like to think an AAR is something of a therapeutic venting of some inner gaming nerd need, perhaps with a big dose of voyeurism when it comes to this hobby. And, many folks around here are perfectly happy with lurking and not saying a word. But it gets to a point where it can become a slog, especially if not much feedback is coming into that thread, and my motivation can evaporate. Views are one thing, but posts are always much more motivating than seeing the numbers, if that makes any sense.

I'm pretty flexible when it comes to HOW I do an AAR. I started this thread to see how the community here ENJOYS...absorbing them, for lack of a better word.

There's also a bit of pressure. For example, the Champions of Krynn AAR I did/am doing, that's a really fun thing for me to do. I look back and actually laugh at some of the crap I put into it. And then when I sit down to do a new post, I completely and utterly second guess myself as to what's amusing and what's not, and I get severe analysis paralysis in that case. Usually if I take a step (or twenty) back from said AAR, that helps me stop doing that. Besides other distractions of course.

Anyway...thank you for your voting/feedback, folks. Much appreciated.

I prefer VASSAL, then physical game setup, and then video. Video is way down the list mainly because it's a pain to watch, pause, do chores, watch, pause, make lunch, watch, pause, answer a text or call, etc, etc.

With the first two it just feels easier to enjoy in small doses broken up by other things.


AFA VASSAL, can you hook up an extra external monitor and slide some of the game windows over to it? Screenshot tools must allow for multiple monitor capture, no?

Quote from: Staggerwing on October 17, 2017, 06:40:43 AM
...
AFA VASSAL, can you hook up an extra external monitor and slide some of the game windows over to it? Screenshot tools must allow for multiple monitor capture, no?

Yes you can use multiple monitors with VASSAL just as you describe. The regular PrintScreen and paste to MSPaint captures both monitors... at least on my setup. Thought I use the Snipping Tool more that PrtScn.

As for views verses comments, I'm OK with views. It's when you post lots and the view total increase starts to decrease that slows me down.... beside my usual habit of starting an AAR and then getting bogged down in other things... ie short attention span....

I think "views" are a better indicator of interest than actual discussion / feedback.

Other than "great job!" there might not be too much to say about it.

I had a crap-ton of views of the Civ5 AARs on the front page, but not near as much discussion as you might've expected based on those views, and those AARs actually had some commentary & feedback

Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 17, 2017, 08:10:07 AM
I think "views" are a better indicator of interest than actual discussion / feedback.

Other than "great job!" there might not be too much to say about it.

I had a crap-ton of views of the Civ5 AARs on the front page, but not near as much discussion as you might've expected based on those views, and those AARs actually had some commentary & feedback

  In my case at least, some of the AARs I've started have not gone in particularly interesting directions.  This is a risk when a an AAR is really more of a during action report.  I'm usually as surprised as anyone with the twists and turns of what I end up reporting in an AAR.  Sometimes my own AARs just are not very interesting and I let them close down relatively quietly.

MengJiao, you can't blame yourself on that. Sometimes these games just play rather blandly and nothing exciting happens. Nothing makes better AAR fodder than a close-run, nail-biting affair, but not all games end up that way. They're usually one-sided ass-kicking contests that don't, honestly, make good press. ;D

Once things quiet down and I get back to OG, I'm probably going to do a full write-up of any AAR I want to do moving forward. For one thing, this will ensure that ALL parts are present before I start it, so it won't become vAApoR (see what I did there?) mid-game. For another, I might be able to tweak some of the game to make it a more interesting read. I don't mean overt cheating or re-rolling dice, either, because that kind of destroys the credibility of the game, as well as the tension it creates.

Interesting results - thanks for everyone that voted.

I'm thinking that this might dovetail into reviews, too. I had been thinking that video reviews are best, as are unboxing videos, as opposed to taking still pictures. But maybe you all think a written review with pics is better than video...? I suppose that's another, different poll question.

Yes written reviews, and unboxings, with pics are best. Nothing personal but I get bored listening to other people talk about games. It's much easier to read the article at the pace I want then have to wait for the talker to hurry up and spit it out already.
But that's just me.

I appreciate that feedback too, Barth.

I've been thinking videos are the way to go moving forward (at least, with my production), but the problem with that is I can be much more organized and to the point in a written review, whereas a video I tend to screw up and not hit the points I want to. I avoid writing things down to refer to off camera because I figure if I need to write things down, I might as well write a review!  :buck2:

Quote from: Barthheart on October 27, 2017, 06:22:28 PM
Yes written reviews, and unboxings, with pics are best. Nothing personal but I get bored listening to other people talk about games. It's much easier to read the article at the pace I want then have to wait for the talker to hurry up and spit it out already.
But that's just me.

Barth - legit question... based on these thoughts, where do you stand on something like Dragon' Up The Past

(Yes, I know I'm derailing the thread)

Quote from: bayonetbrant on October 27, 2017, 06:55:09 PM

Quote from: Barthheart on October 27, 2017, 06:22:28 PM
Yes written reviews, and unboxings, with pics are best. Nothing personal but I get bored listening to other people talk about games. It's much easier to read the article at the pace I want then have to wait for the talker to hurry up and spit it out already.
But that's just me.

Barth - legit question... based on these thoughts, where do you stand on something like Dragon' Up The Past

(Yes, I know I'm derailing the thread)

Truthfully, I only skimmed through it.
For two reasons really. 1. I don't like watching videos, like I stated above. 2. I never read Dragon Magazine. Never could get it as a kid up here in the frozen wastes and when it did finally make it over the border I was in my boardgaming hiatus and sucked into PC games. I didn't return to baordgaming in a big way until 2004ish.
Oh and 3. I never played D&D... or any RPG for that matter... that was for anti-social freaks... no, wait... I was the anti-social one.. I hated people back then too.
So I'm not yer target audience for the new show... sorry.

Don't apologize. We're honestly not really sure who the target audience is, other than ourselves

This probably would have been a better question to ask along the three 'major' areas: unboxing, reviews, and AARs.

Quote from: Barthheart on October 27, 2017, 06:22:28 PM
Yes written reviews, and unboxings, with pics are best. Nothing personal but I get bored listening to other people talk about games. It's much easier to read the article at the pace I want then have to wait for the talker to hurry up and spit it out already.

+1

I find I can't watch Let's Play Whatever videos either or rules explainations vids. Again I think it's my short attention span for anything like this. I know lots of people who like and learn well from these types of vids but I'm not one.

I can watch let's play videos if they do a good job presenting the rules.  I don't understand the point of unboxing videos at all.  Post a photo or photos of the components and move on. 

videos actually involve less production work for the person doing the unboxing

I just don't see the point of an unboxing feature regardless of format.  Discussion of game contents and component quality should be nothing more than a few sentences in a larger presentation, IMO.  The game comes with X.  The component quality is generally Y.  The map is folded/mounted, etc.  Add some pics or a few seconds of close ups and move on.

I see your point, SDR, but I see two reasons for them.

(1) they act as basically 'game porn,' because unboxing vids of all stripes are big things on YouTube. Not that it's big for GrogHeads, but maybe someday.

(2) they act to get press out on a product, and quickly, whereas with a review you have to spend time sitting down, going through the rules, playing it a time or six, and then gathering your thoughts on it, noting them, writing it out, and so forth. An unboxing video is just a quick way to give the vendor some coverage once we receive the product.

As for production time, it's actually faster for me to do it via a written medium, because I have to futz with it on my work laptop, which I generally don't like doing ("hey, look who's online! Let's ask him things!") :)

I'm with SDR. Unboxing videos/posts don't do anything for me. I'd much rather see a play through, at least a turn or two.

Quote from: bbmike on October 28, 2017, 06:23:21 PM
I'm with SDR. Unboxing videos/posts don't do anything for me. I'd much rather see a play through, at least a turn or two.

Well shit... that's my stock and trade... how am I to get on the Front Page^TM now?  :-\

The what page?

Zactly....