Faux pas at The Wargamer?

[Shelldrake]

I was pleased to see a retro review of Civil War Generals 2 posted today on The Wargamer. It is nice to see such a classic game being brought to the attention of new wargamers but I was shocked to see that the article included a link that would let you download the game. I thought that posting "abandonware" links is strictly forbidden for legal (and ethical) reasons.

[Swatter]

I don't know about ethical arguments. I don't see a problem with downloading true abandonware. Why should games that are 20, 25, 30 years old be lost forever in some corporation's IP catalog where 999 times out of a 1000 they don't know its there and any person would be hard pressed to find out who really owns it. Maybe you can make an argument that makes sense to me, but I personally don't see anything ethically wrong with abandonware. There is a line and I draw that line at games that are still for sale somewhere and I am not talking about E-Bay either.

Also, take into consideration that the reviewer is a newbie to the business of writing reviews, so we can cut him some slack. If there are legal issues, I am sure the link will be removed.

[bayonetbrant]

unless the game is over 75 years old, someone owns the copyright
even then, it could've been renewed

[LongBlade]

I was pleased to see a retro review of Civil War Generals 2 posted today on The Wargamer. It is nice to see such a classic game being brought to the attention of new wargamers but I was shocked to see that the article included a link that would let you download the game. I thought that posting "abandonware" links is strictly forbidden for legal (and ethical) reasons.

There is no management over there who would know of those policies, why they were created, and why it's important to maintain them.

Perhaps they'll read your post and think things over.

[LongBlade]

unless the game is over 75 years old, someone owns the copyright
even then, it could've been renewed

+1

Just because someone wants the game and can no longer purchase it doesn't give them the right to steal it.

There is no legal status called "abandonware." It's called "theft."

[Grim.Reaper]

So besides the legal issues of posting links, how does this game play in today's standards and modern computers?  Does it actually still work and a good game to play from your experiences?  Graphics look pretty rough........

[Jarhead0331]

I don't know about ethical arguments. I don't see a problem with downloading true abandonware. Why should games that are 20, 25, 30 years old be lost forever in some corporation's IP catalog where 999 times out of a 1000 they don't know its there and any person would be hard pressed to find out who really owns it. Maybe you can make an argument that makes sense to me, but I personally don't see anything ethically wrong with abandonware. There is a line and I draw that line at games that are still for sale somewhere and I am not talking about E-Bay either.

Also, take into consideration that the reviewer is a newbie to the business of writing reviews, so we can cut him some slack. If there are legal issues, I am sure the link will be removed.

Why? Because its in their catalog and it belongs to them. What if I owned a classic car from the 1960s, but just kept it in my garage and never drove it? Would you think its ok for someone to come into my home and steal it so that they could drive it? Of course not...but what is the difference between that and stealing someone's IP? Just because the IP may not be a tangible good, doesn't make its theft anymore legal or even ethical. 

[BanzaiCat]

Just the very fact that there's a debate over this should be a clear indication that there should be no link or even mention of where to get it. That should be an open and shut case.

People are Internet savvy. If they want to go looking down the dark rabbit holes, they will. There's no reason to give them a big neon sign pointing them down there.

BTW, Swatter, cool avatar. Loved that game, as well as Crusade in Europe, Conflict in Vietnam, and goodness help me, even NATO Commander. ;)

[Swatter]

I am not making a legal argument. Just because something is illegal doesn't equate with ethical wrong. Obviously, its a black and white issue with some people, but we are entitled to our own opinions. But hey, lawyers need jobs too.

[magnus]

 I thought the management was through Slitherine now?

I know they do not care for any talk about abandonware.

[mirth]

It's a very hands off management style. Unless it involves a negative review of one of their games.

[bbmike]

I thought the management was through Slitherine now?

I know they do not care for any talk about abandonware.

Is it possible they acquired the rights to it?

[Jarhead0331]

I am not making a legal argument. Just because something is illegal doesn't equate with ethical wrong. Obviously, its a black and white issue with some people, but we are entitled to our own opinions. But hey, lawyers need jobs too.

See, now this is just simply offensive. Sure, you're too short-sighted, or self-entitled to see the benefit of IP laws so what do you do? Insult the lawyers.  IP laws encourage innovation, productivity and growth of the market. By setting a strong precedent that people's works will be protected and their marks enforced, everyone benefits. Producers benefit because they are guaranteed the fruits of their labor and consumers benefit because producers will continue to produce.  This is really simple logic and I don't see any reason to scoff at it so cavalierly.  I also don't see any reason to thumb your nose at people who want to protect their legal property.

[Nefaro]

unless the game is over 75 years old, someone owns the copyright
even then, it could've been renewed

+1

Just because someone wants the game and can no longer purchase it doesn't give them the right to steal it.

There is no legal status called "abandonware." It's called "theft."

I don't see an issue if nobody is selling,distributing, or even acknowledging any intent to do so with such old stuff.   

The only other option is placing a ban on acquiring it in any way since it's not sold or distro'd. I suppose that's why such things have been termed "abandonware".   

Whomever owns such things don't even bother thinking about them, much less whether a very few people still want to get them.   It's an unusual situation where a product already created long ago has an extremely small demand so nobody sells them.  What does the consumer do in such cases?  Just deny themselves the use of it despite being readily available and the owner not even bothering to worry about it (and probably never will)? 

I dunno.. it's a strange situation made more so by modern digital distribution.

[Jarhead0331]

unless the game is over 75 years old, someone owns the copyright
even then, it could've been renewed

+1

Just because someone wants the game and can no longer purchase it doesn't give them the right to steal it.

There is no legal status called "abandonware." It's called "theft."

I don't see an issue if nobody is selling,distributing, or even acknowledging any intent to do so with such old stuff.   

The only other option is placing a ban on acquiring it in any way since it's not sold or distro'd. I suppose that's why such things have been termed "abandonware".   

Whomever owns such things don't even bother thinking about them, much less whether a very few people still want to get them.   It's an unusual situation where a product already created long ago has an extremely small demand so nobody sells them.  What does the consumer do in such cases?  Just deny themselves the use of it despite being readily available and the owner not even bothering to worry about it (and probably never will)? 

I dunno.. it's a strange situation made more so by modern digital distribution.

I simply do not understand this logic. It makes no sense. You do not own it. It is not yours. It is none of your business what the owner does with it. He can sell it, he can trade it, he can sit on it, he can use it for himself, he can deny your right to use it, or he can choose to give it to you for free. Once again, the fact that it is intangible, or in this case digital, does not change the logic, the law or the inherent right an owner has in his property. The only thing the digital nature of the product does is somehow make you think you have the right to take it, and in some ways makes it easier to do so.