Pretty big news......Front Office Football has joined the stable of OOTP. Previously OOTP tried to create their own football game, but their developer fell on bad health and recently passed away. Looks like OOTP decided to fill the void with bringing on FOF. To be honest, not sure why they didn't start there from the beginning, but glad to see this happening. Sounds like the first OOTP version will happen later in 2018, mostly getting it into the OOTP skin and adding a few features. Certainly a first day buy for me and look forward to seeing what they can do with it over the next few years.
Announcement
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=285358
Can't say I've ever played FOF but if they can do it as well as OOTP then I'm game!
I could get into that.
Quote from: jamus34 on February 20, 2018, 08:44:44 PM
Can't say I've ever played FOF but if they can do it as well as OOTP then I'm game!
Pretty much FOF is the king of american football for career based games.....if they can marry the good sim engine from FOF and a usable user interface, could be a great thing.
I have been a member of the OOTP forums since 2002. One of the original members, in fact.
I have also played FoF for many, many years. My favorite, by far, was the college version. I would love to see that specific version given the OOTP treatment.
Having said all this, their hockey game is still struggling to get the formula right. It isn't a bad game..just not real user friendly.
Great news, and I am with DennisS, I particularly hope they bring back FOF:TCY (Front Office Football: The College Years). For you NFL fans, though, regular FOF is just as good.
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 20, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
Pretty big news......Front Office Football has joined the stable of OOTP. Previously OOTP tried to create their own football game, but their developer fell on bad health and recently passed away. Looks like OOTP decided to fill the void with bringing on FOF. To be honest, not sure why they didn't start there from the beginning, but glad to see this happening. Sounds like the first OOTP version will happen later in 2018, mostly getting it into the OOTP skin and adding a few features. Certainly a first day buy for me and look forward to seeing what they can do with it over the next few years.
Announcement
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=285358
+1
I thought they were making their own football game? Did they decide to just aquire another package? Not fussed either way...a football game in the guise of OOTP is great news...but I was waiting very patiently for their football game.
NICE! This is a combination that just makes too much sense.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 21, 2018, 01:14:20 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on February 20, 2018, 08:10:31 PM
Pretty big news......Front Office Football has joined the stable of OOTP. Previously OOTP tried to create their own football game, but their developer fell on bad health and recently passed away. Looks like OOTP decided to fill the void with bringing on FOF. To be honest, not sure why they didn't start there from the beginning, but glad to see this happening. Sounds like the first OOTP version will happen later in 2018, mostly getting it into the OOTP skin and adding a few features. Certainly a first day buy for me and look forward to seeing what they can do with it over the next few years.
Announcement
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/showthread.php?t=285358
+1
I thought they were making their own football game? Did they decide to just aquire another package? Not fussed either way...a football game in the guise of OOTP is great news...but I was waiting very patiently for their football game.
the original developer of their version recently passed away. even that developer was bringing his started version of his own engine. so they never had anything new themselves. but since the other developer of course can't implement the original vision, getting fof makes sense. in fact, they probably should have joined together from the start since fof has loyal following from many years plus is the best available.
Quote from: DennisS on February 20, 2018, 10:03:10 PM
I have been a member of the OOTP forums since 2002. One of the original members, in fact.
I have also played FoF for many, many years. My favorite, by far, was the college version. I would love to see that specific version given the OOTP treatment.
Having said all this, their hockey game is still struggling to get the formula right. It isn't a bad game..just not real user friendly.
yep me too...been following and playing ootp almost from the start and also fof, tcy, etc. i bet some day they either bring in tcy or find a way to combine with fof into one version. as for hockey, i own that as well. it has come a long way since the first version and we have give it a little time since it is like 15-16 versions behind the baseball game with different developers. it's really the only career hockey game being actively maintained so i think it will get there.
Shame about the developer, but FoF getting the OOTP treatment is a superb idea.
If they sprinkle in 3D graphics like in OOTP it would be AWESOME!
Quote from: bbmike on February 21, 2018, 06:27:23 AM
If they sprinkle in 3D graphics like in OOTP it would be AWESOME!
i am sure it will come at some point, i suspect this years version will be primarily a facelift of current game
Played a lot of Front Page Sports Football '95 back in the day, but really haven't gotten into any football sims like that one since.
(https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/0/2833/1361835-nab.jpg)
Tried to play Madden but meh, tried the Head Coach game some time ago but meh also.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on February 21, 2018, 09:49:51 AM
Played a lot of Front Page Sports Football '95 back in the day, but really haven't gotten into any football sims like that one since.
(https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/0/2833/1361835-nab.jpg)
Tried to play Madden but meh, tried the Head Coach game some time ago but meh also.
Probably the greatest football game ever created.
^^My addiction to that game was unhealthy. To this day, I remember weird and obscure players on the rosters.
It was the best....but prior to that xor football was king for me. Watching the x and o moving around the screen was exciting:)
XOR was very good and FPS95 and 96 are still the best football simulations ever made. Would love those detailed games engines planted in a more modern 3d graphics system. :dreamer:
Man, if they can bring this to the college game that would be awesome. I've heard that copyright issues are what pushed EA out of the XBox and Nintendo markets for college football games. I would buy this in a heartbeat if they had a college version.
So long, of course, as they featured my 2017 Sooners as a playable team! :bd:
I tried 4th & Inches (by Accolade), but it didn't do a lot for me in the late 80s.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/4th_%26_Inches_Cover.png/220px-4th_%26_Inches_Cover.png)
(https://www.myabandonware.com/media/screenshots/0-9/4th-inches-eb/4th-inches_5.gif)
There was another one that was really weird where it put you into a first person perspective, but this was also late 80s. You'd use the arrow keys to, say, control a WR and to run a pattern you had to time your arrow key presses in just the right order to be where the ball would be once the QB throws it. I can't recall it's name though.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on February 22, 2018, 07:30:01 AM
I tried 4th & Inches (by Accolade), but it didn't do a lot for me in the late 80s.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/4th_%26_Inches_Cover.png/220px-4th_%26_Inches_Cover.png)
(https://www.myabandonware.com/media/screenshots/0-9/4th-inches-eb/4th-inches_5.gif)
There was another one that was really weird where it put you into a first person perspective, but this was also late 80s. You'd use the arrow keys to, say, control a WR and to run a pattern you had to time your arrow key presses in just the right order to be where the ball would be once the QB throws it. I can't recall it's name though.
4th and inches was fun but it was by no means a good strategy / simulation of America football. It had two teams and IIRC you could only play single games
Best thing about that game was the names they came up with for the players.
^+100. I played a ton of 4th & Inches. It was great, mindless fun! O0
Before Front Page Sports '95, I did play the snot out of Madden '90 on the Genesis.
The Madden iterations after this didn't do anything for me.
Quote from: bbmike on February 22, 2018, 08:26:19 AM
^+100. I played a ton of 4th & Inches. It was great, mindless fun! O0
Your starting CB - Salott, Tank
Quote from: BanzaiCat on February 22, 2018, 06:39:42 PM
Before Front Page Sports '95, I did play the snot out of Madden '90 on the Genesis.
The Madden iterations after this didn't do anything for me.
I got the original version of Madden Football.. on the C64 in 1988-89.
Played the hell out of it, made a lot of my own plays. Was a huge leap over the previous one I had on that thing, which was basically just lines on a black background.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3c/John_madden_football.jpg/220px-John_madden_football.jpg)
~>
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gb64.com%2FScreenshots%2FJ%2FJohn_Madden_Football.png&hash=55a78b53ce328ec116ab6671118b78a3d5b5e6b3)
Wish we still had a decent action-y Football game for the PC. However, I'll take a good management one first. Hopefully the move to the OOTP engine will provide the MUCH needed UI improvements for the FOF engine.
With the NFL Draft underway, OOTP released some minor update on the game progress....
Hey folks,
here's a little update on the FOF development Essentially, things are progressing nicely. Most of the engine and AI code has been converted so it matches the new architecture, and the next step will be to take the best parts of the OOTP & FHM GUI, design the interface (it will look very similar to OOTP 19) and start coding the screens.
We will have a proper announcement about the features and the release (we'll have a PC and Mac version) once we get closer to beta testing, so probably late Summer / Fall. We'll keep you posted!
Cheers,
Markus
Cool. I picked up the version he stuck on Steam a year or two ago, and have had a few different editions over the years, plus the college game. That is too bad about the dev for the original ootp game. Also too bad that the other dev they picked up wasn't able to carry the project on. Hopefully this works out well for both parties.
I remember Madden on the C-64, I think before that I might have had Lance Haffner's 3-in-1 football, which was a text based statistical game. It was the basis for an espn tv program where they ran a simulated tournament of the great NFL teams, and ran NFL archival footage while calling the plays. Front Page Sports will always be the best for me, and I would love it if someone could bring it back to life. What a wonderful game that was.
That sounds a lot like The VCR Quarterback Game. I had it and a friend of mine and I played it once...
...once. :buck2:
After a bit we got bored and just watched the footage, which was more entertaining than the game.
update from developer today....no release date yet, seems like it is months away at the earliest.
Given recent discussion, I thought it was time to post a few of my thoughts regarding the direction of Front Office Football Nine, as well as our progress.
First and foremost, we want a finished game that's playable. Sounds easy, right? However, games get larger and more complex every year and the days when a solo developer could perform every task seem to have ended.
As I wrote more than ten years ago, with software, the jump from one coder to two is larger and more complex (those words again) than going from two to ten.
OOTP brings exactly what the Front Office franchise needs. Similar experiences and goals, but also familiarity with those growing pains. When I first talked about this project with Markus and Andreas last year, all of us shared enthusiasm for the potential of what we could do. It's now a matter of executing that vision.
We're doing well. We're still perfecting the art of fitting our development cycle in with the different projects OOTP has under its wing. We're making good progress.
That said, I can tell you where we are now. The Front Office Football internals are converted to a form that works for a multi-platform environment and for anticipated future structural changes. The GUI framework is taking shape and we're ready for the potent magic of graphic design.
I'll go into a little detail about one of those structural changes, because it illustrates exactly the kinds of long-term goals we have for this project. One complaint about FOF is that it is limited to the current 32-team, eight division pro football structure. Yet some customers want to play with different league formats.
The original plan was to convert Front Office Football function as is, then move to more flexible league formats for future versions. But because we've had extra development time in recent months, we'll be able to fully support a few league formats (meaning scheduling, playoff structure, AI) right out of the gate. With the potential of adding more before the release and eventually (this part I can't promise in FOF9 because I've only done a little bit of work on it) the ability to add your own custom league structures and schedules (which means those of you who love spreadsheets and embrace adventure will gladly share them with the rest of the community).
I've also been able to add some more features that I've wanted to do for some time, but never quite found room in the schedule. Another example (and I won't share them all, because not everything is tested and sometimes you add something and it just doesn't feel right) is implementing the OOTP calendar structure. You'll play FOF9 day-by-day rather than the stage-oriented approach of FOF8.
As Markus wrote recently, we're months away from being able to show off this work. There is no release date scheduled, nor do we have anything settled right now. It's done when it's ready. Our merger makes sense only if we have something you'll enjoy year after year. This means it has to be up to our standards. No more, no less, no quick fixes.
Andreas posted that we couldn't guarantee multi-player function for the release. That's true. We can't guarantee anything that isn't currently working, and out of the hundreds of thousands of lines of code in FOF8, multi-player function is the piece that translates least efficiently to FOF9. The FOF8 multi-player code is Windows-specific and the snippets of multi-player instruction are all in pieces that react to GUI interaction.
It will be among the last pieces I work on. Since multi-player mirrors single-player, it's by design a good candidate for a feature implemented later in the development cycle when everything's more settled. It's also one of the true hybrid pieces of the new game, in that I have code that defines the scope and execution of multi-player commands, but it will end up working in a way that's familiar for those who play multi-player OOTP. So it's not a simple add. It requires a lot of coordination.
I know you want concrete answers, and we don't have them. It would be a poor business decision to hold up a finished product to add a new function. However, it would also be a poor business decision to completely abandon something that we know has brought people enjoyment for a long time. We're thinking about how best to serve everyone's desires.
The only correct answer is to say it's something we would like to provide, but it's not something we can work on at this stage of development and it's not guaranteed to be in the inital release. It's also correct to say that we recognize that for many people, it's a feature that they won't do without. We want customers, so we're certainly not crossing it off any list.
We have also discussed how best to serve existing FOF8 customers. The plan, if we provide multi-player function for FOF9, is to write an internal tool to convert existing multi-player leagues. Commissioners will upload their game files and we'll convert them and provide a detailed explanation of how we're handling the extensive internal structural changes from FOF8. Front Office Football commissioners are familiar with this routine.
Moving forward, OOTP games have automatic conversion routines built in. So we've added the basic support for this when we go from FOF9 to FOF10. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Finally, while I'd like to provide frequent updates on progress, I'm also aware of the dangers of talking too much about something that isn't yet completed. I'm never going to tell you this is the "best" anything or promise that something will be in the game that we haven't yet programmed. I'm not going to be posting much while we're busy with development. Once we are closer to our goals, those around here who are more experienced with the product release process will start doing their thing and I assume I'll be here to answer questions and explain more about the product.
I didn't expect it until next year at the earliest. *shrug*
Another update from developer after being silent for a long time (typical pattern). Not really sure how to read it, but kind of feels like we are a ways off.....likely not even this year (since new season just few months away). It still is kind of odd how after all these years still finds ways to say being silent is a better approach...to each his own I guess but I think the community would appreciate much more involvement, especially in the new OOTP world.
Originally Posted by Jim
n the interest of providing accurate headlines and in my personal dislike of click-bait, I'm providing an update that tells you perhaps everything you want to hear except what you really want to hear.
A couple of years ago, I joined a partnership with OOTP. This was for the specific purpose of publishing a football game. OOTP is the publisher, and is providing a publishing platform, a GUI platform and GUI programming, custom graphics, marketing and dozens of other valuable insights and functions that are well beyond the scope of a solo developer. On my end, I'm providing the FOF8 base, adapting it to this new GUI, and adding a host of new FOF9 functions.
We're calling the new project Front Office Football 9. We're all fairly certain it will have that name upon release. The goal was to have this finished last fall. You might have noticed, however, that there is no new product on the market. That's why I spent a couple of months last fall adding some features to FOF8 that I was saving for FOF9 – primarily with game planning. I also provided a 2018 player file. All this is work valuable to the FOF9 effort, but our delay meant that it was appropriate to spend extra time putting it into FOF8 as well.
The biggest question you have right now is, I'm sure, whether OOTP still plans to put out FOF9. That answer is a definite yes. We're still making progress and we're still expending resources.
The second-biggest question you have right now is, "well, then when the #^$%& are you releasing it?" I just don't have that answer. None of us do. We would all like to get it out this fall, but we're not in a position right now to make that determination.
A common theme on the OOTP board these days is discussing and speculating about my own feelings about publicity and marketing. I am the lead developer, after all, and I haven't said much about the game. Why is that?
Going back to 2001 and the release of The College Years (still, to date, by far my most successful game), I've tried very hard to avoid talking a lot about my work. Before 2001, I loved the attention. I knew most of the major reviewers out there and it was fun to talk about my work. I was a reviewer for Computer Gaming World before I started Solecismic Software. That gave me a huge advantage in starting out because I knew who to talk to and we all had a lot in common. That works great when you keep to a specific schedule. I was lucky in that I had a good sense how long everything would take and the market was different back then.
However, soon after I started work on TCY and soon after I hyped it a bit with reviewers, EA Sports wanted more from me with FOF. Wonderful. That was my ticket to "making it big" in this business. I was all-in. And for those of you who know me personally, the most profound disappointment in my career was when a group of lawyers for the NFL and a group of lawyers for AOL could not settle a very simple question for EA that would have allowed us to put FOF3 on the Madden CD, for free, giving people an interface for joining a managed FOF multi-player world. Tiberon (the Madden development group) was terrific. Holding that space for us until they just about had to stamp the gold images. But the lawyers were not making progress and after we missed that window, EA lost interest in FOF. No more "making it big."
Meanwhile, I was a year behind with TCY and customers were frustrated. The game was a lot bigger than FOF2, and it had a few bugs to work out on release. All was fine within a month, but I was very well aware that the hype had caused significant harm and the initial reviews of TCY suffered from it specifically. For future FOF releases, I adopted a "no-hype" policy. Then, one year, for reasons having nothing to do with the game or the community, I decided to hold back a release announcement until the day before the actual release.
Frankly, I thought I was being quite obnoxious with that. But people seemed to find it refreshing back then, so I decided to let it become part of my community ethos, so to speak. Just shut up and let the work speak for itself. I think that approach works well for solo development. Sure, there's less excitement during the release, but word of mouth spreads and you end up with more sales in the long run than you would have with the alternate approach.
Am I taking this approach with FOF9, then? No. Not at all. I'm silent about development because I'm part of a bigger whole today. OOTP has professional marketing in place and several teams to help with the release process. It's not my place to speak for them and set this process in motion. And they will set this process in motion once we have a strong idea about when we will release FOF9.
Naturally, that brings up a lot of questions. Where are we in development? Why are we delayed? Why can't we at least show screen shots? What new features will be in place when the game is released? I can only answer some of these questions, and the rest, as I am part of a team now, will be handled by OOTP in the proper time frame.
Where are we in development? OOTP has provided a nice new framework for the game. I have learned this framework, and ported the AI and FOF8 engine to a new set of structures that will support it long into the future. In doing so, I focused on elements that will make expansion easier – FOF9 may not support that many different-sized leagues, but it will support a few – and new formats will be easier to add. That was a huge issue for me with my solo framework because of decisions I made maybe ten years ago to save disk space. I took the time to evaluate the new design and remove those limitations when designing the port itself. I've also added a few new bells and whistles here and there (providing details about that is part of the pre-release process). We have yet to implement some of the key "show-off" screens, like the in-game module and the piece I've designed to replace Solevision. We aren't showing screen shots because that's more for the build-up process and because the graphics touches come late in development.
Why are we delayed? Andreas recently posted on the OOTP forum that OOTP has a lot on its plate right now. Those OOTP improvements took precedence over the FOF development. And I have to shoulder some blame, too. There's more I could be doing related to the GUI and just getting elements on to pages. But I've had some personal issues to take care of recently, and my wife and I are completing a move to Canton, Ohio (of all places – we're just six minutes from the HOF now). An older home that needs some TLC, and we just moved to Ohio.
The positive side is that the delay means I've been able to get more, what should we call it... FOF10 function... into FOF9 than we had originally planned. More league formats, more new ideas on how to implement functions, little AI things. FOF9 was originally going to be FOF8 with a new coat of paint. We're already beyond that.
For me, and for the good people at OOTP, this is a calling rather than just a job. We're in it for the right reasons. If anything changes with development or we commit to a release schedule, we'll tell everyone right away. Until then, it's probably best to keep relatively quiet. When it's time to set this in motion, there will be plenty of time for a proper marketing plan and we'll be available to answer as many questions as we can.
Thanks for your patience.
I have purchase 12 versions of OOTP. I am a Hall of Fame poster on their forum board, and have been a member of that board since 2002. That's a long time on the interwebs.
I have owned every version of Front Office Football, as well. My favorite, by far, was FOF: TCY, for The College Years.
The latest two versions of FoF, frankly, sucked. I have one on Steam, FoF 7, with just seven hours played.
If their grouping up with OOTP is successful, then I will be one happy camper indeed..but I just don't see that happening. Both are spreadsheet games, but FOF has no soul, and is rather lackluster and uninteresting to play.
Well, the OOTP and FOF marriage is over.....really never got started sadly. Disappointing but not surprising news, OOTP has parted ways with FOF. For whatever reason, never got off the ground and had long bouts of silence.
Hopefully FOF will still find the means to release a new version with a more modern interface/concepts at some point.....FOF is a great base product, just needs to be more user friendly and more options to assist people who don't want to manage every detail (i.e. gameplans).
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/showthread.php?t=317394
That's too bad, I was eagerly awaiting this.
With how popular the NFL is, I'd think developing a football game would be priority one, but maybe football isn't as popular in the spreadsheet gaming community. Although, I can't see how it hockey could be more popular, baseball yes, since it is all about the stats.
it seems ootp more into their existing products and the perfect team thing they introduced. the fof developer posted on their own blog indicated he is not sure if he is going to quit the business altogether or try on his own again. ootp did allow him to keep all the current code and such so at least a starting point if he continues.
oh well, since the original announcement it's seemed to good to be true and it was.....