Starter Sets and Introducing RPGs

[Bison]

Also you don't earn XP to level, but to purchase stats, skills, and proficiency points. 
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Interesting concept and basically insures that not every smuggler, soldier, or jedi is essentially the same.  Pretty cool, but will take some getting used too.

uh....  Runequest?  ;)

I didn't know we were counting RPGs that came out of cereal boxes.   ;D  I'm not really familiar with Runequest but I thought you rolled to increase a skill and not purchase it with points.  I very well could be wrong on this of course.

I guess my point is that the "typical" RPG mechanic for advancement is a leveling based one.  I'm sure there are a good many that don't follow that rubric, but for me this is a new and unique departure from what I'm used to for character advancement.

[bayonetbrant]

I guess my point is that the "typical" RPG mechanic for advancement is a leveling based one.  I'm sure there are a good many that don't follow that rubric, but for me this is a new and unique departure from what I'm used to for character advancement.

That mechanic was very much in vogue for D&D/T&T and its successors (especially TSR games like Indiana Jones), but the skill-building style of character development has been around a long time, too, going back to the mid-'70s with Runequest and Traveller and others.  TSR finally went skill-based w/ Star Frontiers, too.

[Nefaro]

OK.  I soloed through the introductory mission for SW Age of Rebellion and it was pretty sweet.  The dice were a little confusing at first but once I learned the symbols and how to build dice pools it was actually pretty straight forward.  There are some mechanics that will be challenging because unlike D&D dice rolls aren't just a pass/fail sort of deal.  You can fail a check, but have an advantage on the dice or succeed and have a disadvantage.  So this means the GM really needs to be on his feet to improvise and keep the story going.  So for example, I had to remove a restraining bolt from a droid as a part of the encounter.  The character succeeded in removing the restraining bolt, but had a 2 disadvantage results.  My answer was that the droid was so overjoyed at having the restraining bolt removed that it started to shout and jump around for joy.  How is this a disadvantage?  Well the characters assignment is to sneak into an Imperial base and capture the commander before he can escape.  This requires a high degree of stealth as to not alert the guards, so by jumping and shouting the droid might unintentionally alert a guard patrol in a near by hallway or room.  Pretty cool mechanic, but you really have to be on your feet and I can see this really creating the possibility for some cinematic moments in the game.   It's such a Star Wars mechanic.  I just thought of the trash compactor.  Han and Luke escape.  Yah!  But they are stuck in a trash compactor.  Boo!  Neat stuff.

Yeah, cool stuff.  That's what I was talking about when mentioning it inspiring some "cinematic narrative".    O0   There are also some simple mechanic-oriented options for combat results.  Such as regaining "fatigue" points or whatever they were called.  So you don't always have to fret over it, either.

The one other sort of odd mechanic that is a deviation from old school RPGs is XP.  There is no real standard method of determining them.  It's left up to the GM to determine how much and how to dole out.  But they do give you some suggestions like 10 XP for 3 encounters and a successful mission and few bonus ones for outstanding RPing.  Also you don't earn XP to level, but to purchase stats, skills, and proficiency points.  So you do not have a 10th level jedi, but a jedi with particular stats, skills, and proficiency that the player chose to advance by spending their XP on.  Interesting concept and basically insures that not every smuggler, soldier, or jedi is essentially the same.  Pretty cool, but will take some getting used too.

Of course the game is made by Fantasy Flights so that means great product, but a lot of extras costing $$.  I think if the family really digs it, then in the long run RPGing is a relatively cheap hobby.  The 3 core rule books and 2 other beginner games would be in the area of I'd think $150 off of amazon.  Damn that's depressing, but the possibility of developing a life long love of an awesome hobby would justify the cost.  And of course not everything would have to be purchased at once.  Although I would have to get Force and Destiny, because lightsabers and force powers.

I always thought habitual tracking of all the little XP gains, and doling them out in such small bits, was just a pain in the ass.  Many new RPGs have much more laid back methods which reduce or eliminate the constant accounting headache and base it more on achievement by overall scene, episode, or adventure.  That way, the whole group progresses at the same rate, there is less bookkeeping all around, and the GM can more easily gauge & set the pace he wants.  Only good things this way.

RPGs which have broken out of the old crusty & dusty "Class + Level" mold is a requirement for me nowadays.  It may take more effort when ranking up, but being able to make choices on customization is a massive bonus over playing the cookie cutter stuff, like that in D&D (especially the older stuff).  The Star Wars RPG has spec trees for each type, which is a bit unusual even for the more open ones, but I'd take it over the old stuff any day!

The only possible setback due to lack of designated XP on monsters, and relatively class-less systems, is how to best gauge the challenge posed by such monsters & NPC opponents for your group.  Some of these games give some kind of simple Challenge Rating number, or equivalent measure for party level-ups.  But not all do.  Either way, it's something that is learned & tweaked while doing.


As for buying ALL the Star Wars core books (three right now), I don't think you really need to.  You should obviously pick up the Force & Destiny one, if you plan on players being proper Force Users of some kind.  But they all have much repetition.  I'd only get more than one if you plan on playing the specificly different style of campaign.  Edge Of The Empire for Han Solo-style scoundrel/smuggler type campaigns, and Age Of Rebellion for a more military or spy oriented one.  Pretty much depends on which the player group wants.  You can still cook up NPCs and enemies from the other stuff without too much work, using a single core book.  For example, despite not having the Age Of Rebellion core book, you can still drop plenty "Imperial interference" on your group, including stormtroopers & such.  The basics are in each core book, with some variety.




EDIT:  And if you want a modern fantasy RPG with a large amount of classes, but with a far wider and more customized progression, I'd also recommend checking out the Shadow Of The Demon Lord RPG.   Great mix of old school fantasy RPG with a lot of the new style mechanics, yet still keeps it fairly easy to teach.  It's rather dark.. rather Warhammer Fantasy-ish. 

Keeps an old school feel despite using newer mechanics and flexibility.  O0

[Bison]

One can only properly play a Star Wars world if you have a mix of smugglers/scoundrels, force users, and the bureaucracy players of the Empire and Republic!  :D

I understand why they marketed the game this way from a financial perspective, but it's a bit of an annoyance too.  I've read about the duplication, which doesn't bother me as much as the fact that unlike games like D&D where you have all inclusive folios of monsters you are left with a dispersion of people/minions, equipment, etc...across a wide array of products core books, card decks, pre-fab adventures, and campaign guides. This was done intentionally IMHO and it may prove to be annoying.  You don't pick up the book of minions to find an appropriate foe, but have to look through a variety of sources if you want something specific.  I'm sure in FFG fashion they'll milk you for some sort of consolidated product in the future, but for right now its about pumping out products.  And yeah the scaling of an encounter is certainly going to be a challenge, but combat/skill checks are pretty simple and quick so those types of encounters are pretty easy to test run before hand.  Anyway it's all good because the system is actually really mechanically simplistic once you learn the dice and how the symbols work.  I'd actually like it if they sold a pawn kit of heros/villians and vehicles with some basic modular indoor/outdoor tile sets like 4th ed. D&D and Pathfinder do.  Sure it's more money but it'd be worth it to me.

[Bison]

I guess my point is that the "typical" RPG mechanic for advancement is a leveling based one.  I'm sure there are a good many that don't follow that rubric, but for me this is a new and unique departure from what I'm used to for character advancement.

That mechanic was very much in vogue for D&D/T&T and its successors (especially TSR games like Indiana Jones), but the skill-building style of character development has been around a long time, too, going back to the mid-'70s with Runequest and Traveller and others.  TSR finally went skill-based w/ Star Frontiers, too.

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing exactly.  Skills and building them up have been around for a long time, but I'm talking more a complete absence of a power rank structure like levels.  There is no real way to determine the strength of a character other than they have some certain highly specialized skills/proficiencies.  Which I'm sure after playing for awhile you'll be able to pick out a strong character from a weaker one.  The real challenge is going to be in gauging combat encounters.

[bayonetbrant]

That's exactly what the RuneQuest model was :)

[Nefaro]

  I'd actually like it if they sold a pawn kit of heros/villians and vehicles with some basic modular indoor/outdoor tile sets like 4th ed. D&D and Pathfinder do.  Sure it's more money but it'd be worth it to me.

I actually have a wide assortment of the pre-painted minis from the old Star Wars Miniatures collectible game from WotC.  Picked up some used lots & a some packs after Edge Of The Empire came out.  Plus a couple packs of the modular map tiles for it, if I feel like using those instead of drawing on the large double-sided laminated map I have. 

That old SW Minis stuff has been out of print for awhile.  But there seemed to be quite a lot of it being sold/resold regularly a few years ago.  I'm definitely not the only one who started picking them up for use with FFG's new RPG though. 

[Nefaro]

That's exactly what the RuneQuest model was :)

I picked up the recent & massive RQ 6th Edition hardback.  For maximum nostalgia overdose.  Dunno when I'll get around to delving it. 

The pages, artwork, etc definitely look the same as the old editions.  ;D

[Bison]

That's exactly what the RuneQuest model was :)

Don't you roll against your current skill level to see if you increase the skill?  I seem to recall that being the mechanic, but I only played it once or twice several decades ago.  D&D was a better game.  :)

[Bison]

  I'd actually like it if they sold a pawn kit of heros/villians and vehicles with some basic modular indoor/outdoor tile sets like 4th ed. D&D and Pathfinder do.  Sure it's more money but it'd be worth it to me.

I actually have a wide assortment of the pre-painted minis from the old Star Wars Miniatures collectible game from WotC.  Picked up some used lots & a some packs after Edge Of The Empire came out.  Plus a couple packs of the modular map tiles for it, if I feel like using those instead of drawing on the large double-sided laminated map I have. 

That old SW Minis stuff has been out of print for awhile.  But there seemed to be quite a lot of it being sold/resold regularly a few years ago.  I'm definitely not the only one who started picking them up for use with FFG's new RPG though.

In theory you could fork even more money over to the FFG coffers and pick up Imperial Assault minis too, but I'm happy with the pogs.  I'd just like to be able to get more of them and some sci-fi tiles.  I guess I could make some and just go with an erasable gridded mat, but man that sounds like work!

[bayonetbrant]

  I'd actually like it if they sold a pawn kit of heros/villians and vehicles with some basic modular indoor/outdoor tile sets like 4th ed. D&D and Pathfinder do.  Sure it's more money but it'd be worth it to me.

I actually have a wide assortment of the pre-painted minis from the old Star Wars Miniatures collectible game from WotC.  Picked up some used lots & a some packs after Edge Of The Empire came out.  Plus a couple packs of the modular map tiles for it, if I feel like using those instead of drawing on the large double-sided laminated map I have. 

That old SW Minis stuff has been out of print for awhile.  But there seemed to be quite a lot of it being sold/resold regularly a few years ago.  I'm definitely not the only one who started picking them up for use with FFG's new RPG though. 

You can pick up tons of those fairly cheap at most big-game conventions like, say , Origins

[Bison]

Damn it!

[bayonetbrant]

Damn it!

Just sayin'

[Nefaro]

I actually have a wide assortment of the pre-painted minis from the old Star Wars Miniatures collectible game from WotC.  Picked up some used lots & a some packs after Edge Of The Empire came out.  Plus a couple packs of the modular map tiles for it, if I feel like using those instead of drawing on the large double-sided laminated map I have. 

That old SW Minis stuff has been out of print for awhile.  But there seemed to be quite a lot of it being sold/resold regularly a few years ago.  I'm definitely not the only one who started picking them up for use with FFG's new RPG though. 

You can pick up tons of those fairly cheap at most big-game conventions like, say , Origins

Yes, you can find assorted lots of the Commons & such for not too much.  I scrounged a couple lots on Ebay quite awhile back, but you gotta dig for the deals.

Since it was a "collectible" minis game, there are a bunch of Common & Uncommons floating around which actual SWMinis players have too many of & don't need.  I guess the minis game itself is still a bit popular.

I know CSI & others sell singles (and Noble Knight sells varied Lots of 25 or 50 IIRC) but I'm not sure how the prices are these days.  Probably not cost efficient regarding singles but Lots may be worth searching out for deals.   Saves a huge amount of time since they're pre-painted.

[bayonetbrant]

Bison, if you're really jonesin' for a bunch of singles, lemme know.  One of my old profs is a nationally-ranked SW minis player and runs his own collectibles website.  I can get him to hook you up with a deal.  But I'll make you come to Origins to pick it up.