Soooo... is this another "battle arena" like WoT? Or is it closer to a remake of Battleground: Europe (WW2 Online) or whatever the name changed to?
Played the beta a long ime ago now..had promise.
More like Battleground Europe (WW2 Online) with it's persistent campaign.
But battle mechanics are more like BF1942.
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
More like Battleground Europe (WW2 Online) with a persistent campaign.
But battle mechanics are more like BF1942.
Gameplay was a big turnoff for me. Too gamey.
Great concept, and I think the developers are trying to avoid some of the same mistakes from WW2OL
Now that some of my friends have gotten excited about the game I've also started to play it again after two years break. It's good clean fun and I highly recommend everyone to try it, it's free after all.
I do like the idea of the persistent faction campaign.. something many others desperately need. I definitely enjoyed WW2OL years ago but it felt so primitive, even back then. Can't say I've ever had a big multi-player experience like that again, where I could take an AT gun and set up an ambush.. in some bushes.. then jump into a plane or tank after I die and continue on in such a huge arena. I don't miss the utter clunkiness of the program, but the scope was damn impressive.
If this one approaches that scope, I may have to check it out. Although they probably don't have AT guns & such, do they?
Quote from: Nefaro on May 09, 2014, 02:10:30 AM
I do like the idea of the persistent faction campaign.. something many others desperately need. I definitely enjoyed WW2OL years ago but it felt so primitive, even back then. Can't say I've ever had a big multi-player experience like that again, where I could take an AT gun and set up an ambush.. in some bushes.. then jump into a plane or tank after I die and continue on in such a huge arena. I don't miss the utter clunkiness of the program, but the scope was damn impressive.
If this one approaches that scope, I may have to check it out. Although they probably don't have AT guns & such, do they?
Just to give an overview of the game.
You get the persistent Western Europe map with nodes. Each node represents a limited area "Battlefield-type" map with control points for the FPS player. Take note that there aren't enough maps to represent each node so there is repetition of maps. But the map chosen depend on the features in the grand campaign (rivers, bridges, town, etc.). Unlike WW2 Online, there is no scale map of Europe. There is no long travel time as well. You just pick a node with a battle going on and play.
There are Generals who direct the movement across the node of organic units like in a typical Close Combat campaign. A battle happens when there is a contested node with opposing units present. Each unit has it's own TOE just like Close Combat. This means that the Heroes (FPS players) can only choose classes that are available in the TOE and their choice is limited to the class allotment (like in Red Orchestra) and number of tickets, etc.
There is also career progression for FPS players with persistent skills and unlockables (weapons / equipment).
That doesn't sound bad. Although it still probably comes down to how much you enjoy the fps side of things.
Got around to downloading and trying this today.
Well... downloading, anyway. Evidently they've had more demand than they can handle so they implemented a user login limit in the past couple days. So it just keeps saying "Server unavailable" whenever I try to log in just as the dev message says it will when at capacity. I don't expect to be able to try it anytime soon. :-\
Looks like I'll have to resort to performing terribly in RO2/RS again for awhile. The wide mix of unit types and the overarching campaign in H&G does look fun, though, if I can ever get in.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on May 08, 2014, 10:05:09 PM
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
More like Battleground Europe (WW2 Online) with a persistent campaign.
But battle mechanics are more like BF1942.
Gameplay was a big turnoff for me. Too gamey.
Great concept, and I think the developers are trying to avoid some of the same mistakes from WW2OL
It's very gamey, but there are some fun things:
1) the M1 rifle is just as fine a weapon as it was in some Red Orchestra mods
2) bicycles can be very useful in the game
3) some parts of the terrain are extremely well designed for fighting
And some disappointments:
1) lots of fiddly purchasing of things like ammo and modifications
2) I bought a jeep with an light MG, but as a Rank 1 player, I can't go to battles that allow vehicles (at least I think that is the problem)
3) At peak times it takes a long time to get into a battle
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on May 08, 2014, 10:05:09 PM
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
More like Battleground Europe (WW2 Online) with a persistent campaign.
But battle mechanics are more like BF1942.
Gameplay was a big turnoff for me. Too gamey.
Great concept, and I think the developers are trying to avoid some of the same mistakes from WW2OL
It's very gamey, but there are some fun things:
1) the M1 rifle is just as fine a weapon as it was in some Red Orchestra mods
2) bicycles can be very useful in the game
3) some parts of the terrain are extremely well designed for fighting
And some disappointments:
1) lots of fiddly purchasing of things like ammo and modifications
2) I bought a jeep with an light MG, but as a Rank 1 player, I can't go to battles that allow vehicles (at least I think that is the problem)
3) At peak times it takes a long time to get into a battle
The damage model was just god-awful. Hitting someone repeatedly with a 7.92mm or .30-06 and then watching them jump along and no-scope you.
No thanks. Those days are done for me.
The game also has a very 'pay to win' feel to it. A few years ago I decided to invest $10 and i bought me a slew of equipment. It was great, but again, I'm not into that kind of thing.
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on July 14, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 14, 2014, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: Apocalypse 31 on May 08, 2014, 10:05:09 PM
Quote from: jomni on May 08, 2014, 10:03:21 PM
More like Battleground Europe (WW2 Online) with a persistent campaign.
But battle mechanics are more like BF1942.
Gameplay was a big turnoff for me. Too gamey.
Great concept, and I think the developers are trying to avoid some of the same mistakes from WW2OL
It's very gamey, but there are some fun things:
1) the M1 rifle is just as fine a weapon as it was in some Red Orchestra mods
2) bicycles can be very useful in the game
3) some parts of the terrain are extremely well designed for fighting
And some disappointments:
1) lots of fiddly purchasing of things like ammo and modifications
2) I bought a jeep with an light MG, but as a Rank 1 player, I can't go to battles that allow vehicles (at least I think that is the problem)
3) At peak times it takes a long time to get into a battle
The damage model was just god-awful. Hitting someone repeatedly with a 7.92mm or .30-06 and then watching them jump along and no-scope you.
No thanks. Those days are done for me.
The game also has a very 'pay to win' feel to it. A few years ago I decided to invest $10 and i bought me a slew of equipment. It was great, but again, I'm not into that kind of thing.
I can definitely understand somebody's not liking this game. The "play-to-win" feel is an understatement; it costs something (and there are multiple thousands of point or 3 point somethings) to do anything -- get more ammo, buy a jeep etc.etc. It has all the bad FPS things:
health bars, healing boxes, awful damage models and so on....
But all my old FPS reflexes are working. Maybe when I get to rank 3 or whatever it takes to be able to drive vehicles, I can try my favorite Red Orchestra mod combo: the M-3 halftrack and the grease gun. In fact the bicycle+grenades seems about as good: drive deep into German land (or until the shooting starts -- nobody can resist shooting at a bicycle and usually the cyclist isn't hit) -- jump off and grenade your way to a capture point and hold on there with your M1.
It wasn't bad, but also feels rather simplistic in some ways.
However, if I feel like a WW2 first-person shooter, I'll just play Red Orchestra 2 & Rising Storm multi-player. Despite being rather mediocre at it. :)
Quote from: Nefaro on July 14, 2014, 01:06:03 PM
It wasn't bad, but also feels rather simplistic in some ways.
However, if I feel like a WW2 first-person shooter, I'll just play Red Orchestra 2 & Rising Storm multi-player. Despite being rather mediocre at it. :)
I may not play much HG in the long run, but right now I am enjoying some of the terrain and the bicycle and the M1 rifle and the prospect of menacing the Germans with a jeep equiped with an LMG and bazookas. Oh and I bought some binoculars too!
Gah! People move too fast like "hyperspeed Counterstrike". Didn't remember this to be the case before.
I have been playing the game off and on for almost two years (been in beta a long long time).
I agree the game has drifted into the more "gamey" twitch-fest column in that time. I was playing the other day, and hit a guy in the chest two times. Despite being hit, he ran away very quickly, dodged behind me, and killed me with three shots from his M1. The only thing missing is the space bar hopping that goes on in some twitchers. As someone mentioned...it is starting to feel like BF1942.
I don't mind the need for fast reactions in an FPS, but there has to be some realism there. Arma and the "realistic mode" tank battles in War Thunder are good examples of what I like.
As it is...I probably won't be back to Heroes and Generals.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on July 15, 2014, 05:39:32 AM
I have been playing the game off and on for almost two years (been in beta a long long time).
I agree the game has drifted into the more "gamey" twitch-fest column in that time. I was playing the other day, and hit a guy in the chest two times. Despite being hit, he ran away very quickly, dodged behind me, and killed me with three shots from his M1. The only thing missing is the space bar hopping that goes on in some twitchers. As someone mentioned...it is starting to feel like BF1942.
I don't mind the need for fast reactions in an FPS, but there has to be some realism there. Arma and the "realistic mode" tank battles in War Thunder are good examples of what I like.
As it is...I probably won't be back to Heroes and Generals.
Apparently, I'm going to be in HG for a bit. It's like an improved BF1942 in many ways. All of my old BF1942 reflexes are coming back, but with the better terrain, I expect to be wiping out Germans at an incredible rate.
All of my old BF1942 rules work about like they did: come in fast at an unexpected angle with grease gun (was a tommy gun in BF1942, but same principle) and use the whole clip on anything that moves, leap over walls etc. and when you are out of your double load of modified ammo, switch to grenades and steal a bicycle (no bikes in BF42 of course).
And other basic principles that worked in BF42 and Some Red Orchestra mods: get deep into Jerryland and set up so that they drive or run past you to get to the latest firefight. I think I even blew up a Kubelwagonload with a grease gun last night. I certainly hit it with a whole clip and it definitely exploded.
Of course a lot of things are horribly annoying: grenades throw people dozens of feet into the air and getting run over triggers the same flipopnig animation. But apparently for the moment I'm relishing this whole world of silliness.
Bike tactics ftw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw)
Quote from: Tinkershuffle on July 15, 2014, 10:56:19 AM
Bike tactics ftw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw)
The bikes are pretty fun. I tried lofting over a wall into a few Germans, but something went wrong. The tank battles look fun.
Quote from: Nefaro on May 08, 2014, 06:56:49 PM
Soooo... is this another "battle arena" like WoT? Or is it closer to a remake of Battleground: Europe (WW2 Online) or whatever the name changed to?
It's interesting (sort of, I guess), but while the game is not all that much like WW2 online in many ways, the same overall dynamic for the campaigns has carried over: there are more Germans and more funded stuff for Germans in all timezones except the US. The imbalance should get even stranger since apparently there are US servers (ie in the USA) with good ping for the US troops and bad for the Germans. So if you play USA on the USA servers, you usually see (say somewhere around 2/3 to 3/4 of the time) the Germans getting steadily beaten. Moreover, when the Germans win on a US server, they win in 5 minutes or not at all, so say 90% of the time or more on US servers you get a hilariously relaxing time choosing how you want to shoot or blow up Germans. Plus things may get even worse for the Germans on US servers as US players graviate to Campaigns (there are multiple campaigns) where the US is winning. Meanwhile, on 3/4 of the planet, the US gets very quicky and systematically annihilated in the Campaigns (as usual -- that was typical in WWII Online too).
Quote from: MengJiao on July 17, 2014, 08:50:58 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on May 08, 2014, 06:56:49 PM
Soooo... is this another "battle arena" like WoT? Or is it closer to a remake of Battleground: Europe (WW2 Online) or whatever the name changed to?
It's interesting (sort of, I guess), but while the game is not all that much like WW2 online in many ways, the same overall dynamic for the campaigns has carried over: there are more Germans and more funded stuff for Germans in all timezones except the US. The imbalance should get even stranger since apparently there are US servers (ie in the USA) with good ping for the US troops and bad for the Germans. So if you play USA on the USA servers, you usually see (say somewhere around 2/3 to 3/4 of the time) the Germans getting steadily beaten. Moreover, when the Germans win on a US server, they win in 5 minutes or not at all, so say 90% of the time or more on US servers you get a hilariously relaxing time choosing how you want to shoot or blow up Germans. Plus things may get even worse for the Germans on US servers as US players graviate to Campaigns (there are multiple campaigns) where the US is winning. Meanwhile, on 3/4 of the planet, the US gets very quicky and systematically annihilated in the Campaigns (as usual -- that was typical in WWII Online too).
To continue:
There was one battle last night (I've made it to Rank two and the big Assault maps with armor on them) that started out much like a typical German capture of an allied town in WWII online: German tanks swarming around the allied spawn point. I was pretty resigned to having it turn out badly, but of course fighting to the tedious end -- because you can try lots of nutty strategems under those extreme conditions. BUT a number of things are critically different in this game:
1) You are invisible for a few seconds after you spawn
2) the spawn radious is fairly big and random
3) there's an infinite supply of panzerfausts inside the main spawn house
4) there are other AT weapons (big grenades and gammon bombs)
5) the Germans can only have a limited number of tanks on the map at a time
So the US Army cleaned up those 3 (not as swarming as I thought at first) tanks -- only PZ KW I and II anyway and after 30 minutes, got a win.
Which was pretty refreshing. I haven't hit a tank with anything except BAR fire yet...shooting at the commander in an open hatch -- no hits.
Which brings up another comparison: early on in bf1942, the BAR was the ultimate weapon for me. It is perfect for me at this stage in this game as well: good hitting power, good accuracy, reasonable ROF and the sights are so good that when you get the sight mod -- it's just the sight you already have. Good to know. I got a headshot (one-shot kill) at about 200 meters last night -- purely by accident -- I was shooting at a small mob of doomed Germans and one of them happened to get hit in the head.
My other memorable kill was two Germans on a bike. The driver apparently was dead set on pedaling right up to where I was standing on a hill. I was horrified myself and blasted off the last few shots of a clip without aiming and maybe got one or two hits. While I was frantically reloading, they pedalled up next to me and started getting off the bike. I thought surely it would be the end -- they must have some crazy instant-kill move up their sleeves or why a) pedal right at me b) get off right next to me? Frantically, I shot them to bits. I was much relieved and pretty incredulous, but when it was over they definitely were dead.
Now apparently there are all kinds of "ribbons" you can earn or buy that do things like make you aim better or give you extra hits -- so maybe they both had monster hit ribbons or something. Fortunately -- if that was the case -- a whole clip of 30 ought 6 at two feet will overwhelm a lot of costly mods.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 15, 2014, 11:51:32 AM
Quote from: Tinkershuffle on July 15, 2014, 10:56:19 AM
Bike tactics ftw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHfGKz9XQw)
The bikes are pretty fun. I tried lofting over a wall into a few Germans, but something went wrong. The tank battles look fun.
And how did the Jeep thing turn out?
Basically it is more trouble than it is worth. You can't spawn them as needed and in a crowded rank 1 battle (smaller battles, more inexperienced players, more death more chaos) and in the larger battles, a bike is a much better ATV. In a jeep you bounce crazily over rocks and ditches,on a bike you can avoid such things and its quieter.
The LMG is basically useless and a magnet for people who just want to continually shoot it at nothing at all.
BUT, I'm going to load up with panzerfausts and go tank hunting in the rank 2 battles. Rank 2 battles so far have seemed less chaotic and I've been able to drive the jeep without much trouble. So maybe I'll take one and go practice with grenades and panzerfausts in a quiet area of the battlefield.
For the jeep to spawn, I believe you have to be assigned to a squad with vehicle spawn points left.
If you are assigned to pure infantry, you can't spawn your jeep.
The spawn point selected may also have something to do with it. Some are just pure infantry.
I filtered out the Training missions so that I just join the Normal mission (those that have an impact in the strategic map).
The few games I played a couple months ago were okay. A bit fun and not overly complex. I had just graduated to the big maps when I stopped playing, however. So I've not experienced the wider variety yet. The smaller beginner map had become rather repetitive so it couldn't have happened sooner.
Quote from: jomni on July 17, 2014, 05:57:25 PM
For the jeep to spawn, I believe you have to be assigned to a squad with vehicle spawn points left.
If you are assigned to pure infantry, you can't spawn your jeep.
The spawn point selected may also have something to do with it. Some are just pure infantry.
I filtered out the Training missions so that I just join the Normal mission (those that have an impact in the strategic map).
I got the jeep thing working. I usually don't take it since I prefer the bikes for sneaking around, but if the enemy has tanks, I get the jeep and try hunting them. Hasn't worked so far, though I have shot about a dozen panzerfausts at PZ I and II at around 100 meters or so. No hits. but they haven't hit me either.
I just take whatever missions the system can find that match my ping. So my Ping is usually okay, but all the players seem to be inexperienced US steam players just like me. Which is okay, though it makes for lots of odd moments -- for example -- I got on one map just as all the Germans were leaving the game. I guess the US Army was close to winning so the Wehrmacht decided to leave. So there was an immense region of open cap points. I went on cap point vacation and just took them one after the other while sight-seeing in the jeep. there was one German in that game. He was right behind my jeep when I spawned in initially. He shot me up real good -- though for some reason at pointblank range the whole process took a while. I got out of the jeep and was about to shoot back when he got me for the last hit just as somebody gunned him down. I wish I'd gotten to know him better when he was alive: he looked strangely absurd and pathetic laid out in his overcoat in an immense pool of blood, but then it was off to respawn and my jeep was still there waiting for me though Mister German was evaporating and taking his uberkleinschnousserpissoleausfarhungsgeberietheit and odd post-mortum presence with him. I got in the jeep and checked the map (which is a very cool set up in this game -- there's a full animation for holding up your map on a clipboard); it was a beautiful afternoon -- we had places to go!
So that was weird.
And it was only the beginning.
I played 5 maps last night and the US Army won very throughly on all of them. It was all very odd as anyone who has played WWII online can attest -- when the Germans turn up in equal numbers, you're dead. But there they were -- perfectly balanced in numbers by automated machinery. They acted like WWII Online Germans -- they sniped from any high place, hid under anything, drove around like crazy -- but something was missing (though of course they killed me as usual like clock work -- I got run over 3 times by Kubelwagons -- and I even killed myself jumping off a tall building -- one floor no damage -- 4 floors -- instantly dead). The US Army players were incredulous -- why were they winning? It seemed impossible. The US side was demonstrably underequiped most of the time (eg -- no US tanks vs at least a few potential German tanks), but they just won steadily and solidly and slowly and unstoppably. Meanwhile, every 3 minutes human waves of wildly shooting, crazy swarms of Germans would rush down the same narrow routes to get into odd places: under huge pipes, or small boxes or modest shrubs or even their own kubelwagons. Their primordial urge to be under something was always uppermost in their priorities. At the first sign of trouble (I observed this a lot since I generally spent most of these games shooting at long range at the German migration routes) they would sprint toward the nearest large object and try to get under it.
Generally, after this sort of thing had gone on for a quarter hour or so, the US Army players would begin wondering what was going on. It was puzzling. All of the German behaviors were pretty much the same as in WWII online, but they just didn't quite work in HG. I suspect it was because the basic WWII online logic of favoring low pings by extrapolating the low-ping path so has not to be hit at all ever by anything of a higher-pinged source just was not working and it was essentially suicidal to run directly toward your high ping, non-Germanic foe accumulating hits from a huge 400-yard arc of concentrated automatic weapons fire focused on you just to hope for the best when you got into SMG range on a single target.
Are you implying WWII Online people are in the game? Seems logical. I haven't played it to notice.
Quote from: jomni on July 18, 2014, 06:02:01 PM
Are you implying WWII Online people are in the game? Seems logical. I haven't played it to notice.
Seems logical, but maybe there are a limited number of ways of having Arcadey WWII battles with tanks and planes and jeeps and trucks. It's wierd but I saw various russian (?) vehicles in the game just now. I myself have some monster Russian AT grenades.
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 19, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Their server capacity isn't very high. So whenever H&G gets a little publicity somewhere, they get overloaded. That's what happened when I first tried to play. It took 2 or 3 days to get into the game (much of the time their servers were down) because some RPS article (IIRC?) came out about the latest update to the game which added some stuff.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 20, 2014, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 19, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Their server capacity isn't very high. So whenever H&G gets a little publicity somewhere, they get overloaded. That's what happened when I first tried to play. It took 2 or 3 days to get into the game (much of the time their servers were down) because some RPS article (IIRC?) came out about the latest update to the game which added some stuff.
There were also 2 wars running (I was in Hannibal). The Germans won that one in 10 game days (5 earthly days and 5 sidereal days and/or 5 surreal days) and I assume a lot of players tried to get into the only war still running (Julius...named for Gisgo's other brother, Mago Julius). If the Germans aren't winning that one too I'd be very surprised; they certainly blasted the US Army off of all 3 maps I was on last night. I got 7 kills somehow, but they got me around 30 times. Once an airplane hit me with lethal results for me and I thought: that can't be a good idea and sure enough, next time I ran out to get killed, the plane hit the ground while trying to kill an infantryman with its wings. I've never seen that in a game. Those German players must be very very good to hit people with planes. I was impressed, but it does give the average infantry man an unusual anti air weapon == just standing below a deceptive slope seems to work.
Ah. It took a long time to synchronize the map for me. But I'm now in.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 20, 2014, 07:12:17 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 20, 2014, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 19, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Their server capacity isn't very high. So whenever H&G gets a little publicity somewhere, they get overloaded. That's what happened when I first tried to play. It took 2 or 3 days to get into the game (much of the time their servers were down) because some RPS article (IIRC?) came out about the latest update to the game which added some stuff.
There were also 2 wars running (I was in Hannibal). The Germans won that one in 10 game days (5 earthly days and 5 sidereal days and/or 5 surreal days) and I assume a lot of players tried to get into the only war still running (Julius...named for Gisgo's other brother, Mago Julius). If the Germans aren't winning that one too I'd be very surprised; they certainly blasted the US Army off of all 3 maps I was on last night. I got 7 kills somehow, but they got me around 30 times. Once an airplane hit me with lethal results for me and I thought: that can't be a good idea and sure enough, next time I ran out to get killed, the plane hit the ground while trying to kill an infantryman with its wings. I've never seen that in a game. Those German players must be very very good to hit people with planes. I was impressed, but it does give the average infantry man an unusual anti air weapon == just standing below a deceptive slope seems to work.
So some of the German players seem to have some ubermenschlie skills. I mean they are very very very good at the game. All they need is a tiny pistol and a few planes and/or tanks. It's kind of freaky running into one of these characters. Usually I spot them long, long before they spot me and by their jerky (not jumpy, they only leap as needed) spazmotic yes-I-am-an-alien-teuton-in-a black-suit-and-googles-and-a-weird-hat demeanor, I know, yep its a JerryVet. Somehow they can jerk around even on a bicycle. I think realistically that much jerking around would injure you and whatnot -- but then what do I know? -- I've only played the game a couple of weeks. And yes, I see the Jerry vet and yes I figure onlya bazzoka or a really big grenade is going to get the guy (I got one with a Thompson once and even then it was probably only that one of his spazzums hit a lamppost that enabled us to be in the same space-time continuum long enough for a lethal dose of bullets to accumulate in his Jerryatric system). Sure, I see the enemy dude wiggling along and I know I'm going to hit him once or twice with a rifle bullet maybe and then he's going to pop up and shoot me in the head with a tiny pistol and kill me instantly.
I'm beginning to think, maybe I should leave these guys in their tanks or planes rather than blowing them up or shooting them down. Also if they are driving a tank, their spasmatic movements are masked somehow by an invisible force field or something. And really, nothing is more horrible than watching one bicycle toward you. It's like watching a dentist drill a hole in his own face. With a drill. A dental drill.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM
So some of the German players seem to have some ubermenschlie skills. I mean they are very very very good at the game. All they need is a tiny pistol and a few planes and/or tanks. It's kind of freaky running into one of these characters. Usually I spot them long, long before they spot me and by their jerky (not jumpy, they only leap as needed) spazmotic yes-I-am-an-alien-teuton-in-a black-suit-and-googles-and-a-weird-hat demeanor, I know, yep its a JerryVet. Somehow they can jerk around even on a bicycle. I think realistically that much jerking around would injure you and whatnot -- but then what do I know? -- I've only played the game a couple of weeks. And yes, I see the Jerry vet and yes I figure onlya bazzoka or a really big grenade is going to get the guy (I got one with a Thompson once and even then it was probably only that one of his spazzums hit a lamppost that enabled us to be in the same space-time continuum long enough for a lethal dose of bullets to accumulate in his Jerryatric system). Sure, I see the enemy dude wiggling along and I know I'm going to hit him once or twice with a rifle bullet maybe and then he's going to pop up and shoot me in the head with a tiny pistol and kill me instantly.
I'm beginning to think, maybe I should leave these guys in their tanks or planes rather than blowing them up or shooting them down. Also if they are driving a tank, their spasmatic movements are masked somehow by an invisible force field or something. And really, nothing is more horrible than watching one bicycle toward you. It's like watching a dentist drill a hole in his own face. With a drill. A dental drill.
Ahhh yes.
The Invincible Latency Soldiers. High ping equals high survival when you can teleport out of a bullet's path! It's like the f**king Matrix.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 24, 2014, 11:07:17 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM
So some of the German players seem to have some ubermenschlie skills. I mean they are very very very good at the game. All they need is a tiny pistol and a few planes and/or tanks. It's kind of freaky running into one of these characters. Usually I spot them long, long before they spot me and by their jerky (not jumpy, they only leap as needed) spazmotic yes-I-am-an-alien-teuton-in-a black-suit-and-googles-and-a-weird-hat demeanor, I know, yep its a JerryVet. Somehow they can jerk around even on a bicycle. I think realistically that much jerking around would injure you and whatnot -- but then what do I know? -- I've only played the game a couple of weeks. And yes, I see the Jerry vet and yes I figure onlya bazzoka or a really big grenade is going to get the guy (I got one with a Thompson once and even then it was probably only that one of his spazzums hit a lamppost that enabled us to be in the same space-time continuum long enough for a lethal dose of bullets to accumulate in his Jerryatric system). Sure, I see the enemy dude wiggling along and I know I'm going to hit him once or twice with a rifle bullet maybe and then he's going to pop up and shoot me in the head with a tiny pistol and kill me instantly.
I'm beginning to think, maybe I should leave these guys in their tanks or planes rather than blowing them up or shooting them down. Also if they are driving a tank, their spasmatic movements are masked somehow by an invisible force field or something. And really, nothing is more horrible than watching one bicycle toward you. It's like watching a dentist drill a hole in his own face. With a drill. A dental drill.
Ahhh yes.
The Invincible Latency Soldiers. High ping equals high survival when you can teleport out of a bullet's path! It's like the f**king Matrix.
Maybe that explains it. Visually, it looks very odd. Visually, in fact, HG looks stranger and stranger the more you look at it. Not because anything looks particularly odd on its own, but the world is a very strange mix. the whole scale is odd, though not necessarily at first glance. or maybe I've just been on the same places on the same maps too many times now or played too much ARMAII/III to find such small spaces convincing -- they just are not quite spaces at all. This is not to say the places (not spaces) don't have some weird charm. I really like the huge church for example. And I've been shot by creepy Jerryiatrics in black begoggled pilot suits and tiny black pistols all over that place. I like the forested hills and dales where I've run over the occasional nooby German and blown up a half-dozen Jerryiatric tanks.
I'd almost guarantee that's what is happening. If they're "twitching" back & forth, then they have high latency issues. It's terrible in most shooters because the hit detection goes out the window when they're "warping" all the time, and are often actually supposed to be in a different spot than where they're being displayed.
I'm guessing that people from around the world are all playing on the same host server(s), so such latency issues will be likely. In many privately hosted first-person shooters, they have latency limit options set to auto-kick people with too high latency so these problems don't come about. Before the multi-player hosting options had those, a server Admin would often do that manually if they were on.
Quote from: Nefaro on July 24, 2014, 12:17:36 PM
I'd almost guarantee that's what is happening. If they're "twitching" back & forth, then they have high latency issues. It's terrible in most shooters because the hit detection goes out the window when they're "warping" all the time, and are often actually supposed to be in a different spot than where they're being displayed.
I'm guessing that people from around the world are all playing on the same host server(s), so such latency issues will be likely. In many privately hosted first-person shooters, they have latency limit options set to auto-kick people with too high latency so these problems don't come about. Before the multi-player hosting options had those, a server Admin would often do that manually if they were on.
That explains a lot. I knew it happened all the time in WWII online, but in Red Orchestra my fast ping seemed to pay off massively and I assumed it had to do with hit detection logic -- ie WWII Online favored low ping and assumed a high ping hit wasn't valid on a moving low ping target most of the time.
These days my ping is probably no faster than the average player's and i can often hit things in the HG environment, so assumed the HG hit detection was at least neutral (ie not favoring low ping), but I really have no idea what's going on (at many levels) in HG. It is pretty funny though if not exactly fun in the sense I had excessive fun in Red Orchestra.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2014, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 24, 2014, 12:17:36 PM
I'd almost guarantee that's what is happening. If they're "twitching" back & forth, then they have high latency issues. It's terrible in most shooters because the hit detection goes out the window when they're "warping" all the time, and are often actually supposed to be in a different spot than where they're being displayed.
I'm guessing that people from around the world are all playing on the same host server(s), so such latency issues will be likely. In many privately hosted first-person shooters, they have latency limit options set to auto-kick people with too high latency so these problems don't come about. Before the multi-player hosting options had those, a server Admin would often do that manually if they were on.
That explains a lot. I knew it happened all the time in WWII online, but in Red Orchestra my fast ping seemed to pay off massively and I assumed it had to do with hit detection logic -- ie WWII Online favored low ping and assumed a high ping hit wasn't valid on a moving low ping target most of the time.
Maybe a mix of the two.
Red Orchestra is one of the newer shooters that has Auto-Kick options for use on people with high latency. That's a big reason the multi-player hit detection is often so much better than old games like WW2OL. It just boots people with shitty lag that cause such problems.
QuoteThese days my ping is probably no faster than the average player's and i can often hit things in the HG environment, so assumed the HG hit detection was at least neutral (ie not favoring low ping), but I really have no idea what's going on (at many levels) in HG. It is pretty funny though if not exactly fun in the sense I had excessive fun in Red Orchestra.
In my experience, high latency players in First-Person Shooters are more difficult to kill. It may not be the case in every title, but it's the norm. Laggers may also have issues actually hitting other people, too, but I don't think it's usually as bad as the other way around.
I think the H&G servers are in Britain (IIRC). It's probably a mixture of people from around the world playing in the same server so there will be a lot of difference in their pings from all over.
Finally got around to trying this.
Still in training, but after about 8 missions I can see this replacing RO2 as my go-to unwind when just wanting some quick action.
Hats off to the devs, they may well be revolutionising shooter with the Strategic overlay. Hope they increase map size to cover East Front, Italy, Balkans etc.
Quote from: fabius on July 26, 2014, 07:50:10 AM
Finally got around to trying this.
Still in training, but after about 8 missions I can see this replacing RO2 as my go-to unwind when just wanting some quick action.
Hats off to the devs, they may well be revolutionising shooter with the Strategic overlay. Hope they increase map size to cover East Front, Italy, Balkans etc.
I think I'm in training pretty often too. I always take random games because for some reason I'm convinced good ping means something and a lot of these seem to be "training" (which means what? I have no idea -- but can it be bad? Not from my "entertain me for 30 minutes" point of view, I suspect).
Yes, its not a very serious game (unlike say CMRT) -- but it does have lots of explosions!
Quote from: MengJiao on July 26, 2014, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: fabius on July 26, 2014, 07:50:10 AM
Finally got around to trying this.
Still in training, but after about 8 missions I can see this replacing RO2 as my go-to unwind when just wanting some quick action.
Hats off to the devs, they may well be revolutionising shooter with the Strategic overlay. Hope they increase map size to cover East Front, Italy, Balkans etc.
I think I'm in training pretty often too. I always take random games because for some reason I'm convinced good ping means something and a lot of these seem to be "training" (which means what? I have no idea -- but can it be bad? Not from my "entertain me for 30 minutes" point of view, I suspect).
Yes, its not a very serious game (unlike say CMRT) -- but it does have lots of explosions!
That's just it, sometimes after work something CMRT just fries my head. So some quick action, but where we can get the feeling that it has a wider war context and matters is fantastic. I checked their site- definitely saying plans to expand with Brits and Russian after polishing US and Germans.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 26, 2014, 10:52:58 AM
Quote from: fabius on July 26, 2014, 07:50:10 AM
Finally got around to trying this.
Still in training, but after about 8 missions I can see this replacing RO2 as my go-to unwind when just wanting some quick action.
Hats off to the devs, they may well be revolutionising shooter with the Strategic overlay. Hope they increase map size to cover East Front, Italy, Balkans etc.
I think I'm in training pretty often too.
Yes, I'm usually in training scenarios. I'm still not quite sure what that means -- no relation to the strategic game probably.
I got the simplest tank. A US M2 thing with two MG turrets (seems like 1 MG turret, 1 20mm turret? and a hull MG -- lots of MGs).
Visually it was pretty fun. The MGs raise dust and are generally sort of convincing. I didn't kill any Germans, but the US Army won so
maybe I pinned them down or distracted them or something. The Germans definitely wasted a lot of grenades on me and sniped at me (hoping I suppose I would panic and stick my head out). I was resigned to my fate and stayed in my tank since I fully expected to get blown up right away on my first sortie in a tank -- but nope. We just won the battle pretty fast. I wasn't disappointed since I just wanted a tank training event anyway.
Training has no impact on the war. But when you chose the armor profession, there will be less campaign battles to join because it depends on available armor units in the map. I end up doing training myself.
I also became a tanker recently and that beginner tank just sucks. Can't wait to get a Stuart. I had a fun session were we found an abandoned, Panzer IV. Since we are tankers, We unlocked it and took it for a spin against the Germans. Now that's a powerful tank. Tanks can have a second crew member to man the HMG.
Quote from: jomni on August 01, 2014, 01:23:24 AM
Training has no impact on the war. But when you chose the armor profession, there will be less campaign battles to join because it depends on available armor units in the map. I end up doing training myself.
I also became a tanker recently and that beginner tank just sucks. Can't wait to get a Stuart. I had a fun session were we found an abandoned, Panzer IV. Since we are tankers, We unlocked it and took it for a spin against the Germans. Now that's a powerful tank. Tanks can have a second crew member to man the HMG.
I've only been on two tank "missions." I kind of like the starter tank. The two missions were very odd compared to my old infantry experience. For one thing, I think the experienced Germans don't bother with training missions as much or something. In the pregame screen it looked like the Germans all had pretty good ranks (but low ping), but in both battles, the US Army just ran right over them with fast wins on that map with the Church and the Chateau and the Police Station and the bridges (My favorite map). So maybe I can't read German ranks or something. Anyway, so far the starter tank has been pretty fun.
Free veteran member ship this weekend. Easier to level up and earn money.
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 20, 2014, 07:12:17 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 20, 2014, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 19, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Their server capacity isn't very high. So whenever H&G gets a little publicity somewhere, they get overloaded. That's what happened when I first tried to play. It took 2 or 3 days to get into the game (much of the time their servers were down) because some RPS article (IIRC?) came out about the latest update to the game which added some stuff.
There were also 2 wars running (I was in Hannibal). The Germans won that one in 10 game days (5 earthly days and 5 sidereal days and/or 5 surreal days) and I assume a lot of players tried to get into the only war still running (Julius...named for Gisgo's other brother, Mago Julius). If the Germans aren't winning that one too I'd be very surprised; they certainly blasted the US Army off of all 3 maps I was on last night. I got 7 kills somehow, but they got me around 30 times. Once an airplane hit me with lethal results for me and I thought: that can't be a good idea and sure enough, next time I ran out to get killed, the plane hit the ground while trying to kill an infantryman with its wings. I've never seen that in a game. Those German players must be very very good to hit people with planes. I was impressed, but it does give the average infantry man an unusual anti air weapon == just standing below a deceptive slope seems to work.
So some of the German players seem to have some ubermenschlie skills. I mean they are very very very good at the game. All they need is a tiny pistol and a few planes and/or tanks. It's kind of freaky running into one of these characters. Usually I spot them long, long before they spot me and by their jerky (not jumpy, they only leap as needed) spazmotic yes-I-am-an-alien-teuton-in-a black-suit-and-googles-and-a-weird-hat demeanor, I know, yep its a JerryVet. Somehow they can jerk around even on a bicycle. I think realistically that much jerking around would injure you and whatnot -- but then what do I know? -- I've only played the game a couple of weeks. And yes, I see the Jerry vet and yes I figure onlya bazzoka or a really big grenade is going to get the guy (I got one with a Thompson once and even then it was probably only that one of his spazzums hit a lamppost that enabled us to be in the same space-time continuum long enough for a lethal dose of bullets to accumulate in his Jerryatric system). Sure, I see the enemy dude wiggling along and I know I'm going to hit him once or twice with a rifle bullet maybe and then he's going to pop up and shoot me in the head with a tiny pistol and kill me instantly.
I'm beginning to think, maybe I should leave these guys in their tanks or planes rather than blowing them up or shooting them down. Also if they are driving a tank, their spasmatic movements are masked somehow by an invisible force field or something. And really, nothing is more horrible than watching one bicycle toward you. It's like watching a dentist drill a hole in his own face. With a drill. A dental drill.
Regardless of why it happens, this is the sort of thing that really turns me off. I am holding off on this one. But I gotta admit...I do love the entry price.
Quote from: ArizonaTank on August 07, 2014, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 24, 2014, 09:39:28 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 20, 2014, 07:12:17 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on July 20, 2014, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: MengJiao on July 19, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jomni on July 19, 2014, 09:33:28 PM
Oh so I see Germany won the war! ;D
Buy I can't join any new one. :(
Servers seem to be on the blink. Steam seems to have unleashed quite a load onto the server system.
Their server capacity isn't very high. So whenever H&G gets a little publicity somewhere, they get overloaded. That's what happened when I first tried to play. It took 2 or 3 days to get into the game (much of the time their servers were down) because some RPS article (IIRC?) came out about the latest update to the game which added some stuff.
There were also 2 wars running (I was in Hannibal). The Germans won that one in 10 game days (5 earthly days and 5 sidereal days and/or 5 surreal days) and I assume a lot of players tried to get into the only war still running (Julius...named for Gisgo's other brother, Mago Julius). If the Germans aren't winning that one too I'd be very surprised; they certainly blasted the US Army off of all 3 maps I was on last night. I got 7 kills somehow, but they got me around 30 times. Once an airplane hit me with lethal results for me and I thought: that can't be a good idea and sure enough, next time I ran out to get killed, the plane hit the ground while trying to kill an infantryman with its wings. I've never seen that in a game. Those German players must be very very good to hit people with planes. I was impressed, but it does give the average infantry man an unusual anti air weapon == just standing below a deceptive slope seems to work.
So some of the German players seem to have some ubermenschlie skills. I mean they are very very very good at the game. All they need is a tiny pistol and a few planes and/or tanks. It's kind of freaky running into one of these characters. Usually I spot them long, long before they spot me and by their jerky (not jumpy, they only leap as needed) spazmotic yes-I-am-an-alien-teuton-in-a black-suit-and-googles-and-a-weird-hat demeanor, I know, yep its a JerryVet. Somehow they can jerk around even on a bicycle. I think realistically that much jerking around would injure you and whatnot -- but then what do I know? -- I've only played the game a couple of weeks. And yes, I see the Jerry vet and yes I figure onlya bazzoka or a really big grenade is going to get the guy (I got one with a Thompson once and even then it was probably only that one of his spazzums hit a lamppost that enabled us to be in the same space-time continuum long enough for a lethal dose of bullets to accumulate in his Jerryatric system). Sure, I see the enemy dude wiggling along and I know I'm going to hit him once or twice with a rifle bullet maybe and then he's going to pop up and shoot me in the head with a tiny pistol and kill me instantly.
I'm beginning to think, maybe I should leave these guys in their tanks or planes rather than blowing them up or shooting them down. Also if they are driving a tank, their spasmatic movements are masked somehow by an invisible force field or something. And really, nothing is more horrible than watching one bicycle toward you. It's like watching a dentist drill a hole in his own face. With a drill. A dental drill.
Regardless of why it happens, this is the sort of thing that really turns me off. I am holding off on this one. But I gotta admit...I do love the entry price.
I sympathize. I knew this sort of thing was going to happen, but I played WWII Online for over a decade off and on where the weirdness was even more astounding. I did like Battlefield42 and Red Orchestra, but (sadly) H&G strikes me as being more like WWII Online -- though maybe a bit less tedious. Anyway, I think my days in H&G are likely to be over soon. The tanks are fun in the training scenarios in a horribly comic way, so I'll probably wind up my time doing that.