http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/world/asia/afghanistan-bergdahl-release/index.html
http://www.defense.gov/Releases/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=16737
QuoteStatement from Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel on the return of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl
A few hours ago, the family of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was informed by President Obama that their long wait for his return will soon be over. Sgt. Bergdahl is now under the care of the U.S. military after being handed over by his captors in Afghanistan. We will give him all the support he needs to help him recover from this ordeal, and we are grateful that he will soon be reunited with his family.
Also today, I informed Congress of the decision to transfer five detainees from Guantánamo Bay to Qatar. The United States has coordinated closely with Qatar to ensure that security measures are in place and the national security of the United States will not be compromised. I appreciate the efforts of the Emir of Qatar to put these measures in place, and I want to thank him for his instrumental role in facilitating the return of Sgt. Bergdahl.
Sgt. Bergdahl's return is a powerful reminder of the enduring, sacred commitment our nation makes to all those who serve in uniform. The United States government never forgot Sgt. Bergdahl, nor did we stop working to bring him back. I am grateful to all the military and civilian professionals from DOD and our interagency partners who helped make this moment possible, and to all those Americans who stood vigil with the Bergdahl family.
Welcome home!
Good news!
The guy must have been through hell. Good to hear he is out of there. The 5 better have giant trackers up their ass.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 01, 2014, 08:49:50 AM
The 5 better have giant trackers up their ass.
my choice ... a slow spreading disease that became extremely infectious in a few month and triggers a fast dementia / AD then :knuppel2:
Some people believe he deserves to be court-martialed. The circumstances surrounding his capture and release certainly leave a lot of questions.
^Still, until he is tried in court is he not entitled to the same level of commitment toward safe return as any other serviceman or woman?
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 01, 2014, 11:30:01 AM
^Still, until he is tried in court is he not entitled to the same level of commitment toward safe return as any other serviceman or woman?
Sure...but I'm not sure that includes negotiating with terrorists.
I'm glad the man's back in US custody, and I don't have an issue with a prisoner exchange to do it.
Having said that, Jarhead is right about the circumstances of his disappearance. His unit and others lost soldiers looking for him. He probably should face a court martial for desertion at least. But he won't.
Below is a note one of my old soldiers posted on facebook who was one of the fallen soldier's friend. It's supposedly from a soldier who was in the unit. It sounds right to me, but unconfirmed:
"From a dude who was at the COP with the Taliban prisoner. He was his platoon. SSG Murphy was our brother We severed with him for years. If this is how it went down I'm at a loss for words. We lost a good dude looking for a damn defector.
"We were at OP Mest, Paktika Province, Afghanistan. It was a small outpost where B Co 1-501st INF (Airbone) ran operations out of, just an Infantry platoon and ANA counterparts there. The place was an Afghan graveyard. Bergdahl had been acting a little strange, telling people he wanted to "walk the earth" and kept a little journal talking about how he was meant for better things. No one thought anything about it. He was a little "out there". Next morning he's gone. We search everywhere, and can't find him. He left his weapon, his kit, and other sensitive items. He only took some water, a compass and a knife. We find some afghan kids shortly after who saw an american walking north asking about where the taliban are. We get hits on our voice intercepter that Taliban has him, and we were close. We come to realize that the kid deserted his post, snuck out of camp and sought out Taliban... to join them. We were in a defensive position at OP Mest, where your focus is to keep people out. He knew where the blind spots were to slip out and that's what he did. It was supposed to be a 4-day mission but turned into several months of active searching. Everyone was spun up to find this guy. News outlets all over the country were putting out false information. It was hard to see, especially when we knew the truth about what happened and we lost good men trying to find him. PFC Matthew Michael Martinek, Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss, SSG Clayton Bowen, PFC Morris Walker, SSG Michael Murphrey, 2LT Darryn Andrews, were all KIA from our unit who died looking for Bergdahl. Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl. Fighting Increased. IEDs and enemy ambushes increased. The Taliban knew that we were looking for him in high numbers and our movements were predictable. Because of Bergdahl, more men were out in danger, and more attacks on friendly camps and positions were conducted while we were out looking for him. His actions impacted the region more than anyone wants to admit. There is also no way to know what he told the Taliban: Our movements, locations, tactics, weak points on vehicles and other things for the enemy to exploit are just a few possibilities. The Government knows full well that he deserted. It looks bad and is a good propaganda piece for the Taliban. They refuse to acknowledge it. Hell they even promoted him to Sergeant which makes me sick. I feel for his family who only want their son/brother back. They don't know the truth, or refuse to acknowledge it as well. What he did affected his family and his whole town back home, who don't know the truth. Either way what matters is that good men died because of him. He has been lying on all those Taliban videos about everything since his "capture". If he ever returns, he should be tried under the UCMJ for being a deserter and judged for what he did. Bergdahl is not a hero, he is not a soldier or an Infantryman. He failed his brothers. Now, sons and daughters are growing up without their fathers who died for him and he will have to face that truth someday."
-Ricky Burns(comment from IBIAR)"
Wow. Hard to comment on this now knowing the above.
The Administration is so busy patting itself on the back and giving selfie high-fives, I wonder if anyone bothered to look into this story before negotiating his release...or if it would have mattered to them.
The latest article I read said he had not even spoken with his parents yet so I imagine after going through medical he will have a long conversation with somebody about his ordeal and whether he deserted or not.
Also the timing of this is awfully convenient given the VA scandal going on.
I'm sure Obama did this with the best of intentions. But I'm guessing that in the years to come this will be viewed as a mistake. The US gave up 5 very high level Taliban people in Cuba for 1 US POW.
I'm concerned that this will lead to future kidnappings.
Only time will tell.
???
I actually don't know where to go with this.
I'd like to know more about the reasons of why he left his post.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 01, 2014, 11:18:45 PM
???
I actually don't know where to go with this.
I'd like to know more about the reasons of why he left his post.
It doesn't matter. There can be no excuse.
playing devils advocate here.
did he leave with nothing but a knife and water to go kill them and then got captured?
I've seen some people do some pretty whacky shit under prolonged stress.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 01, 2014, 11:37:35 PM
did he leave with nothing but a knife and water to go kill them and then got captured?
This scenario is exceedingly unlikely. There is no evidence, either direct or circumstantial that this was a motivation. In any event, it is also equally irrelevant as it would still not be a justification for abandoning one's post. Like I said, for this act, there is no excuse.
is it possible for a corpsman to pull someone out who seems to be 'mentally wounded over time', and about to losing it? (getting a danger for himself, or less likely but also possible for certain members in his group)
or does the soldiers has to be totally blown away like those poor chaps under "Grabenschock" that can be seen in some old WW I field hospital footage, before action can be taken?
shouldn't that guy had been under a little 'closer observation' (in the meaning of 'taking care' - not surveillance) by his buddies (well, if he had some...)
yikes
http://twitchy.com/2014/05/31/working-to-free-all-guantanamo-prisoners-tweet-from-account-of-released-soldiers-father-deleted/
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 02, 2014, 07:15:39 AM
yikes
http://twitchy.com/2014/05/31/working-to-free-all-guantanamo-prisoners-tweet-from-account-of-released-soldiers-father-deleted/
Once again, the government and the mainstream media will try to bottle up the truth.
forgive my ignorance, he may just like it that way but does the father's beard suggest a certain sympathy for those in Cuba?
Confirmation from CNN of what I posted yesterday:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 (http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
Despite that and the possible tweet from his father (I had read months before that he had grown out his beard and tried to travel to Pakistan to try to gain the release of his son, understandable actions on a father's part IMO), I think the prisoner exchange was the right thing to do. The timing of this with the VA scandal going on is troubling to me, and I would really, really hope the exchange wasn't delayed until a politically opportune time, but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that. About the Taliban prisoners, keep a couple things in mind:
Taliban does not equal Al Qaeda
Taliban does not necessarily equal terrorist
We have been negotiating with the Taliban via the Gulf States for a while now
Exchanges of prisoners are normal at the end of a conflict, and that is where we are headed in Afghanistan
I think this sends the right message to service people, that if they are captured during war their country will go to great lengths to redeem them. What are all those POW/MIA flags everyone flies worth otherwise? Regardless of whether the individual deserved to be rescued or not. What I don't like is how operations are affected and entire campaign plans disrupted to search for one missing soldier. Having been there, I know there is a great deal of fear among Americans military people when we consider being taken captive by the people we are fighting. I have expressed, and friends of mine as well, that we would save the last bullet for ourselves rather than submit to the fate we expect from them. But, we end up risking far more lives because of our fanatical adherence not leaving anyone behind by completely disrupting our own operations. Interestingly, Bergdahl does not seem to have suffered mistreatment. Not sure what that says about his actions while with the Taliban or about the Taliban itself. I have no doubt Bergdahl is a deserter, and probably a traitor, but that is an issue for us to deal with, not one for us to leave to the hands of the Taliban. Interestingly, the CNN article states that the SecDef didn't rule out UCMJ action against Bergdahl when asked about it by a reporter. I hope he has the guts to pursue it, but I doubt it.
Anyway, my .02. Hope it doesn't offend, but that's the way I see it.
My jaded view of contemporary American politics is that no matter which way this broke, someone was going to try to inflate it for their own electoral gain, rather than just focusing on getting a son home to his parents and sorting the rest out once he's here.
And... it's officially a "thing" now that TDBhas weighed in
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/06/bowe-bergdahl-freed-taliban
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 02, 2014, 12:40:23 PM
And... it's officially a "thing" now that TDBhas weighed in
http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/06/bowe-bergdahl-freed-taliban
True story.
This is so f'ed-up, I don't what to say. When I first saw the headlines, I couldn't help but think of the TV show "Homeland".
I'm fine with negotiating with enemies to get POWs home. But it sure sounds like this particular dude should see the inner workings of a Court Martial.
another perspective: http://sunnyinkabul.com/2014/06/01/on-bergdahl-never-leave-a-man-behind-even-if-hes-a-dick/
.
Much of what Jarhead and others have stated have now come out in the Washington Post. This is pretty disturbing:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mixed-reaction-to-bergdahls-recovery-by-service-members-who-consider-him-a-deserter/2014/06/01/3713e3ce-e9c5-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html?hpid=z1
Well, I'll say one thing. I haven't seen a single news story today calling him a hero. All the coverage is focused on the odd circumstances of his disappearance or his possible collaboration after capture.
the fact thats he's the only POW, or whatever, says a lot to me.
Yeah, and that only because he apparently snuck away and offered himself to any Afghan he could find...
well it's only the beginning.
the closer we get to being done with Afghanistan the more shitty news we're going to get about it.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on June 02, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Well, I'll say one thing. I haven't seen a single news story today calling him a hero. All the coverage is focused on the odd circumstances of his disappearance or his possible collaboration after capture.
I am somewhat surprised about this too. I am glad the mainstream media seems to be taking an objective approach...for a change.
http://www.oafnation.com/guests-pieces/2014/6/2/oaf-exclusive-the-truth-about-bowe-bagdahl
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 02, 2014, 09:45:59 PM
http://www.oafnation.com/guests-pieces/2014/6/2/oaf-exclusive-the-truth-about-bowe-bagdahl
That story leaves little doubt as to exactly who Bergdahl is. Small wonder the Obama administration couldn't wait to swap out five terrorists for him, considering that he betrayed his country and his unit. Maybe Obama will take him along on his next "apology tour". And six of ours died to "rescue" this POS? Seriously, I'm furious.....
Wait, wait......Chris Matthews thinks it was a mistake? Chris Matthews? What is this, an Onion satire???
http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/02/msnbcs-chris-matthews-deeply-skeptical-of-taliban-prisoner-swap/ (http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/02/msnbcs-chris-matthews-deeply-skeptical-of-taliban-prisoner-swap/)
did he have a tingle running down his leg?
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on June 02, 2014, 07:50:16 PM
Yeah, and that only because he apparently snuck away and offered himself to any Afghan he could find...
Oh, he liked role playing as a goat or camel, did he? ???
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 02, 2014, 09:17:16 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on June 02, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Well, I'll say one thing. I haven't seen a single news story today calling him a hero. All the coverage is focused on the odd circumstances of his disappearance or his possible collaboration after capture.
I am somewhat surprised about this too. I am glad the mainstream media seems to be taking an objective approach...for a change.
A soldier from his unit was on TV this morning, not sure if it was CNN or one of the big three morning shows. Basically, the soldier (retired, judging from his haircut) said that Bergdahl wasn't a bad soldier, but he was unpopular. Confirmed the story that Bergdahl snapped and deserted his post, and that many good soldiers and friends died trying to find/retrieve him. The soldier on TV also said that his main objection to the whole story is the media calling Bergdahl a hero, and the government giving-up scumbags (my word, not his) to get a deserter back.
How many scumbags is one deserting dick worth?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-usa-afghanistan-bergdahl-families-idUSKBN0EE07O20140603 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-usa-afghanistan-bergdahl-families-idUSKBN0EE07O20140603)
This ABC News report contains multiple sources telling the same sad story:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/controversy-surrounds-bowe-bergdahls-capture-trade-taliban-members/story?id=23961090
Even the New York Times reports that his story is odd:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html?hp&_r=0
This story claims Susan Rice (of the Bengazhi video claims) is the only person claiming the guy was a "hero" who "served honorably."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/06/03/the_administrations_bowe_bergdahl_fairy_tale__122846.html
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on June 03, 2014, 09:25:49 AM
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-usa-afghanistan-bergdahl-families-idUSKBN0EE07O20140603 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/03/us-usa-afghanistan-bergdahl-families-idUSKBN0EE07O20140603)
"He walked away from his guard post while on duty," said former Private First Class Jose Baggett, who served in Bergdahl's company. "Then we lost men looking for him. I'm not saying he should not be back in America but he has done nothing heroic. The people who died looking for his dumb ass – they are the heroes."
The last paragraph here sums up my feelings pretty well.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 01, 2014, 11:30:50 PM
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on June 01, 2014, 11:18:45 PM
???
I actually don't know where to go with this.
I'd like to know more about the reasons of why he left his post.
It doesn't matter. There can be no excuse.
I almost totally agree with Jarhead. O0 Reports from his colleagues indicate that he deserted, and may even have gone over to the enemy as much for propaganda purposes.
He abandoned his friends, and as an indirect result some of them died for him. He must have been aware of the risks he was putting his team members into. I can't believe he is being treated as softly as is happening. On active duty, abandoning his squad, ostensibly in the face of the enemy - Court martial should be the least of his worries. :tickedoff: In almost any earlier period of history, but for shell shock, PTSD etc he'd probably have been shot for desertion in the face of the enemy.
Look also how his family have been feted by the government - have any of the real heroes who gave their lives for him had their families feted by government? Of course not. In many ways I'm quite a "liberal" by Jarhead's standards, but we're one here. What a CF! Let's get the media attention, and public support for the families of the real heroes who have suffered real loss, not this apparent deserter, and highly probable traitor. Unbe-f***ing-lieveable! :(
The only possible excuse he can have is really bad PTSD, so not being in his right mind when he abandoned his post. From what I've seen from the TV reports of his colleagues that probably wasn't the case.
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 02, 2014, 08:16:08 AM
forgive my ignorance, he may just like it that way but does the father's beard suggest a certain sympathy for those in Cuba?
Not sure. What about ZZTop?
Quote from: Centurion40 on June 02, 2014, 02:52:35 PM
This is so f'ed-up, I don't what to say. When I first saw the headlines, I couldn't help but think of the TV show "Homeland".
I'm fine with negotiating with enemies to get POWs home. But it sure sounds like this particular dude should see the inner workings of a Court Martial.
First thing I thought too.Spooky!
Zz top are in the Taliban? ???
Quote from: undercovergeek on June 03, 2014, 05:48:58 PM
Zz top are in the Taliban? ???
Check it out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_EFdod4YDo
Not really the Taliban style is it? ;D
...the father just got (understandably) crazy about "the loss" of his son... so he learned a local Afghan dialect and sports a Taliban look to gain their respect ... (i think Taliban had a good laugh... yeah, learing German and dress like a SS-Sturmbanführer to beg to get someone free from a concentration camp? )
me thinks continuesly blowing up Radical-Islamic centers around the world on a one-man-mission , with a symbol (deathcard style) left and a release demand linked to it somewhere online would really work better with those folks. Fighting fire with fire.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/bowe_bergdahl_desertion_charges_army_prisoner_trade.html#incart_river_default (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/06/bowe_bergdahl_desertion_charges_army_prisoner_trade.html#incart_river_default)
Found this encouraging story in my local paper today. JCS Chairman General Dempsey issued a statement that charges are on the table for Bergdahl, and that his automatic promotion to staff sergeant will no longer happen because he is no longer a prisoner and and his promotions are now tied to his performance. Hopefully this is moving in the right direction.
Also, the Taliban released video of the actual prisoner exchange:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/04/politics/bowe-bergdahl-release/index.html?c=homepage-t (http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/04/politics/bowe-bergdahl-release/index.html?c=homepage-t)
Please tell me AR, what is the range of punishment for battlefield desertion?
Quote from: Centurion40 on June 04, 2014, 07:34:53 AM
Please tell me AR, what is the range of punishment for battlefield desertion?
UCMJ Article 85(c):
Quote
Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct."
There is a fine distinction between the offense of desertion and the lesser offense of AWOL. The key element differentiating the two offenses is the element of permanence. Desertion requires proof that the absence from duty was intended to be permanent. Although there has been no trial and all the evidence is not in, there seems to be the indication that Bergdahl's offense rises to the level of desertion.
The last person executed for desertion in the US armed forces was PVT Eddie Slovik in France during WWII:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik)
He is the only soldier executed for desertion in the US since the Civil War.
I've dealt with deserters back here in the states. Anyone AWOL for more than 30 days is classified as a deserter and dropped from unit rolls, their case handed over to the provost martial. If they come back or are apprehended (these guys get arrested surprisingly frequently for other offenses by civil authorities), they are usually administratively separated from the army with something less than an honorable discharge. Basically that means that they lose all their veteran's benefits, can never reenlist, and will have a hard time finding someone to hire them in the civilian sector. That's how it's usually handled when it happens back back here. As far as I know, we a haven't had someone desert in the face of the enemy in so long. I have no idea how they will handle if if they decide to go ahead with a court martial.
In the current political climate I wonder if there is any will to prosecute and beyond that, punish.
I only dealt with one guy that was classified as a deserter and that's b/c he was AWOL more than 30 days. When they picked him up at his girlfriend's house he'd been gone about 45 days or so. The only reason I had to get involved was that he accused his chain of command of harassing him, so they had to have a "disinterested party" do the investigation. When you're the HHC XO, you're the go-to guy for "disinterested party" and whatever other "hey you" job rolls by.
He was a douchebag who would do stupid shit, which is why everyone was so hard on him. He would forget his TA-50 when we were headed to the field, or not grab his helmet on a day we were headed to the range. He'd start trying to PMCS a vehicle without the -10 out. Just idiot stuff because he was careless. Truthfully, he just wasn't mature enough to be in the military. He was 19 when he joined, but mentally he was about 12. The chain of command rode his ass to try to get him squared away and it never worked.
They reclassified it as AWOL, reduced him to E1 and kicked him out. Not sure if it was dishonorable, or OTH, when it was all said and done.
I'm currently representing a Marine before the Naval Discharge Review Board in an appeal to get BCD status changed. He was discharged for desertion after he refused to report for duty, instead going on tour with a VERY famous punk rock band.
Its a very interesting case. Slim chance of success, but very interesting, nevertheless.
Quote from: Gusington on June 04, 2014, 09:55:12 AM
In the current political climate I wonder if there is any will to prosecute and beyond that, punish.
It is interesting to me, in that you have a volunteer military engaged in combat operations. If you still had conscription, I would think that the government would need to prosecute Bergdahl, so as to give the message that it is not okay to desert your post, no matter what the circumstances may be.
A conscript may or may not understand honour and duty in the same way as a volunteer, mental health issues notwithstanding. I would think that most volunteer soldiers understand honour and duty, and would have no inkling to desert their units; therefore the government might not feel the imperative to send a message to the troops- especially as combat operations wind-down.
At the same time, wrong doing is wrong doing. Personally, I'd recommend prosecuting him. Let the Courts Martial do their work. Politics can play out in that arena.
From the info coming out it does sound like he has mental issues.
Truthfully, the environment in the US military is such that seperating a soldier, honorably or otherwise, is views as the most severe punishment available (other than for truly criminal cases). I think that says something about the state of our forces and the people who volunteer to serve in them.
His hometown has just cancelled his homecoming party (http://news.yahoo.com/idaho-hometown-newly-freed-soldier-cancels-planned-celebration-202815856.html;_ylt=AwrBEiKcg49T4QYAFcDQtDMD) "because the town will be unable to safely manage the number of people expected." I suspect its really because the people protesters that will show up were not going to make it the happy event they and 0bama were expecting...
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 04, 2014, 11:07:18 AM
I'm currently representing a Marine before the Naval Discharge Review Board in an appeal to get BCD status changed. He was discharged for desertion after he refused to report for duty, instead going on tour with a VERY famous punk rock band.
Its a very interesting case. Slim chance of success, but very interesting, nevertheless.
He wouldn't have a son with autism, now would he? ???
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 04, 2014, 10:09:21 AM
I only dealt with one guy that was classified as a deserter and that's b/c he was AWOL more than 30 days. When they picked him up at his girlfriend's house he'd been gone about 45 days or so. The only reason I had to get involved was that he accused his chain of command of harassing him, so they had to have a "disinterested party" do the investigation. When you're the HHC XO, you're the go-to guy for "disinterested party" and whatever other "hey you" job rolls by.
He was a douchebag who would do stupid shit, which is why everyone was so hard on him. He would forget his TA-50 when we were headed to the field, or not grab his helmet on a day we were headed to the range. He'd start trying to PMCS a vehicle without the -10 out. Just idiot stuff because he was careless. Truthfully, he just wasn't mature enough to be in the military. He was 19 when he joined, but mentally he was about 12. The chain of command rode his ass to try to get him squared away and it never worked.
They reclassified it as AWOL, reduced him to E1 and kicked him out. Not sure if it was dishonorable, or OTH, when it was all said and done.
You have to ask the question - Why did the Army take this guy on in the first place? If he was such an irresponsible guy then why wasn't it picked up at the enlistment stage?
Just playing Devil's Advocate for a moment - doesn't he have an argument that being a totally unsuitable recruit? - that the Army owed him a duty of care at the enlistment/basic training stage to get rid, rather than take on someone totally unsuitable, who was likely to be a liability to himself and others? Do cases like this, and others we're hearing about point toward a systemic failure to properly select in the first place?
Quote from: Boggit on June 05, 2014, 01:58:42 PMYou have to ask the question - Why did the Army take this guy on in the first place? If he was such an irresponsible guy then why wasn't it picked up at the enlistment stage?
hard to tell that level of immaturity in a recruiting office.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on June 05, 2014, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: Boggit on June 05, 2014, 01:58:42 PMYou have to ask the question - Why did the Army take this guy on in the first place? If he was such an irresponsible guy then why wasn't it picked up at the enlistment stage?
hard to tell that level of immaturity in a recruiting office.
I agree, but didn't anyone notice anything in basic, or branch training that the guy didn't make the cut?
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 04, 2014, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 04, 2014, 11:07:18 AM
I'm currently representing a Marine before the Naval Discharge Review Board in an appeal to get BCD status changed. He was discharged for desertion after he refused to report for duty, instead going on tour with a VERY famous punk rock band.
Its a very interesting case. Slim chance of success, but very interesting, nevertheless.
He wouldn't have a son with autism, now would he? ???
I can neither confirm, nor deny.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 05, 2014, 03:14:02 PM
I can neither confirm, nor deny.
Ah. ;)
Well,
AFA the person I have in mind, I can't speak to his actions in question at the moment, but iirc, he later gave up what could have been a very rewarding career playing with another very famous band to focus on his son's needs.
And that's all I have to say about that. :)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 04, 2014, 08:22:05 AM
Quote from: Centurion40 on June 04, 2014, 07:34:53 AM
Please tell me AR, what is the range of punishment for battlefield desertion?
UCMJ Article 85(c):
Quote
Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct."
There is a fine distinction between the offense of desertion and the lesser offense of AWOL. The key element differentiating the two offenses is the element of permanence. Desertion requires proof that the absence from duty was intended to be permanent. Although there has been no trial and all the evidence is not in, there seems to be the indication that Bergdahl's offense rises to the level of desertion.
I don't follow. He planned to wander around Afghanistan permanently? It sounds to me (from a couple of articles, not much data) that he cracked. He checked out mentally, maybe wanting to get shot. Dereliction of duty definitely, AWOL yes, mentally unfit maybe. I doubt he expected to become a villager over there.
Unrelated to bergdahl...
During a long plane ride, I talked to an MP(?) who had escorted a lot of AWOL soldiers back to base, etc. I asked him if any of the soldiers had interesting or empathetic stories. His "saddest" story was of when he had to escort an older Vietnam vet (this was in the late 1990's) because the guy went AWOL during his last few weeks of active duty. Apparently, after returning home from 'Nam, the guy lived on base for a bit then got bored / tired / disillusioned and left for Canada. He eventually settled down, got married, had kids...and was busted from desertion / AWOL (not sure which) when he crossed the US / Canada border about 30 years later.
I have a feeling they probably let him off with no disciplinary action.
Quote from: Jack Nastyface on June 06, 2014, 03:54:18 PM
Unrelated to bergdahl...
During a long plane ride, I talked to an MP(?) who had escorted a lot of AWOL soldiers back to base, etc. I asked him if any of the soldiers had interesting or empathetic stories. His "saddest" story was of when he had to escort an older Vietnam vet (this was in the late 1990's) because the guy went AWOL during his last few weeks of active duty. Apparently, after returning home from 'Nam, the guy lived on base for a bit then got bored / tired / disillusioned and left for Canada. He eventually settled down, got married, had kids...and was busted from desertion / AWOL (not sure which) when he crossed the US / Canada border about 30 years later.
I have a feeling they probably let him off with no disciplinary action.
I thought President Ford had pardoned all of guys from the Vietnam error.
Quote from: OJsDad on June 06, 2014, 04:03:13 PM
I thought President Ford had pardoned all of guys from the Vietnam error.
No - it was the idiot Jimmy Carter. I think he issued a blanket pardon on his first day in office. I looked up that he did it in 1977 - which was the year he took office after winning the election in November, 1976.
Back to the original topic, a court martial (or at least the preliminaries for it) doesn't necessarily mean anything other than an inquiry into the facts of what happened in order to set the record straight, even if charges are filed for an official prosecution after a preliminary investigation. It might be in his best interest to go to court, even if they decide to prosecute.
Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl Recaptured By Taliban After Wandering Off Texas Base
http://www.theonion.com/articles/sgt-bowe-bergdahl-recaptured-by-taliban-after-wand,36462/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/sgt-bowe-bergdahl-recaptured-by-taliban-after-wand,36462/)
^ You knew that article was inevitable. The only question was whether it got written by the Onion or Duffel Blog. ::)