I played I & II and the expansions. Is III any good? I steered clear early because of the problems when it was released.
From what I understand, it's of the old school Paradox update tendencies. It got patched up to passable through multiple DLCs. So you'll definitely want to get the DLCs to get a good experience out of the whole thing. There are mods too, of course.
I'm sure there are still some issues with how the AI does things, but that's typical with large grand strategy games. Hopefully it can perform concerted amphibious invasions that aren't scripted and handle it's naval fleets in similarly concentrated ways. Those are often some of the biggest problems in the genre.
Keep in mind that I'm just relaying this from word of mouth. I've not played a campaign of much length yet.
I like it but it's the only one of the series I've played. I got a free copy of it along with Their Finest Hour and, after the initial learning phase, I've enjoyed my time with it.
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 06, 2014, 04:30:27 PM
... and, after the initial learning phase, I've enjoyed my time with it.
That is
THE thing. There is a big learning curve from HOI2 to HOI3. As you say, it is worth it. 8)
Check out this thread:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0)
This is highly recommended. A well-researched, carefully implemented unofficial expansion.
http://blackicemod.com
QUOTE:
Black ICE is a major overhaul of Hearts Of Iron 3, The Grand World War II Strategy game by Paradox Interactive.
What does Black ICE add to HOI3?
Over 4,000 immersive events and decisions
100+ unique technologies to research
200+ unique units (including SS and Soviet Guards)
Completely new artwork and sound effects
Thousands of hours of bug fixes and play balance
Division Structure - http://blackicemod.com/doc/division-structure
Infantry - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/infantry-units
Armour - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/armor-units
Artillery - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/artillery-units
Direct Fire Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/direct-fire-units
Mobile Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/mobile-units
Recon Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/recon-units
Special Forces - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/special-forces-units
Kampfgruppe Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/kampfgruppe-units
Support Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/support-units
Air Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/air-units
Naval Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/naval-units
HQ Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/headquarters-units
Special Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/special-units
New Events:
Atlantic Wall
Axis Propaganda Broadcasts
Commando Missions
Historical SS Unit Events
Homefront Conservation
National Center for Defense Research
National Unrest
National Wartime Fiscal Policy
Operation Overlord
Pacific Island Hopping Campaign
Port Blockades
Soviet Railroad Network
The Blitz
Yearly National Focus Event
and lots more...
All info here:
http://blackicemod.com/doc
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 06, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
Check out this thread:
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=9317.0)
+1. Pretty much the definitive answer on the learning curve. :)
Quote from: Ian C on June 07, 2014, 05:40:48 AM
This is highly recommended. A well-researched, carefully implemented unofficial expansion.
http://blackicemod.com
...
Wow, that really makes me want to play HoI again. Thanks for the link!
Quote from: Ian C on June 07, 2014, 05:40:48 AM
This is highly recommended. A well-researched, carefully implemented unofficial expansion.
http://blackicemod.com
QUOTE:
Black ICE is a major overhaul of Hearts Of Iron 3, The Grand World War II Strategy game by Paradox Interactive.
What does Black ICE add to HOI3?
Over 4,000 immersive events and decisions
100+ unique technologies to research
200+ unique units (including SS and Soviet Guards)
Completely new artwork and sound effects
Thousands of hours of bug fixes and play balance
Division Structure - http://blackicemod.com/doc/division-structure
Infantry - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/infantry-units
Armour - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/armor-units
Artillery - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/artillery-units
Direct Fire Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/direct-fire-units
Mobile Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/mobile-units
Recon Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/recon-units
Special Forces - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/special-forces-units
Kampfgruppe Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/kampfgruppe-units
Support Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/support-units
Air Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/air-units
Naval Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/naval-units
HQ Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/headquarters-units
Special Units - http://blackicemod.com/doc/unit-guide/special-units
New Events:
Atlantic Wall
Axis Propaganda Broadcasts
Commando Missions
Historical SS Unit Events
Homefront Conservation
National Center for Defense Research
National Unrest
National Wartime Fiscal Policy
Operation Overlord
Pacific Island Hopping Campaign
Port Blockades
Soviet Railroad Network
The Blitz
Yearly National Focus Event
and lots more...
All info here:
http://blackicemod.com/doc
I've had some really good feedback about the mod - a couple of questions though - before I download
Does it overwrite the Vanilla HOI3 TFH, or does it have a separate mod folder?
How stable is the beta, or am I beta off (pun intended! ;) ) taking the last "release" version? Can you confirm which version is the most stable?
Thanks. :)
Quote from: Boggit on June 07, 2014, 07:31:19 AM
I've had some really good feedback about the mod - a couple of questions though - before I download
Does it overwrite the Vanilla HOI3 TFH, or does it have a separate mod folder?
How stable is the beta, or am I beta off (pun intended! ;) ) taking the last "release" version? Can you confirm which version is the most stable?
Thanks. :)
It doesn't overwrite the vanilla. The mod installs to a mod folder and you select it from the main HOI startup screen by selecting the mod box as you would any other mod.
It's totally stable. Don't forget to install the hotfix too.
On all counts, it's a safe choice.
I would say HOI3 is an awesome game, except for one giant, super-huge fault: the way the replacement system works. In essence, forces on the front lines never become depleted no matter how intense the fighting. The reason is that you allocate a certain amount of production to replace losses and those losses are replaced almost instantly. To make it even worse, lets say you have a division that takes 99% losses on theoretical battlefield. To issue replacements to that unit to bring it up to full strength would cost about 1/10 the cost of building it new. Meaning that replacing losses is instantaneous and extremely cheap.
This results in war being fought at the strategic level as a battle of manpower pools, even though the game is on the divisional scale. Take for example my experience in playing as the Soviets during the German Barbarossa offensive. We fought like rabid dogs for 9 months- titanic battles, sweeping offensives, huge winter counter-offensive. I began to notice that even though my units suffered greatly from disorganization (as no doubt the Germans too), most of my ground units were at full strength. I then used a cheat to switch sides to check out the state of the German armies in the East. They entire German army in the East was at full-strength.
I simply couldn't play the game anymore after that. For all the awesome things about the game, its all a façade. The core game mechanics are strange in the extreme, though its mostly hidden from the player. You could call it "EU3: The Battle of the Manpower Pools".
Quote from: Swatter on June 07, 2014, 02:03:19 PM
I would say HOI3 is an awesome game, except for one giant, super-huge fault: the way the replacement system works. In essence, forces on the front lines never become depleted no matter how intense the fighting. The reason is that you allocate a certain amount of production to replace losses and those losses are replaced almost instantly. To make it even worse, lets say you have a division that takes 99% losses on theoretical battlefield. To issue replacements to that unit to bring it up to full strength would cost about 1/10 the cost of building it new. Meaning that replacing losses is instantaneous and extremely cheap.
This results in war being fought at the strategic level as a battle of manpower pools, even though the game is on the divisional scale. Take for example my experience in playing as the Soviets during the German Barbarossa offensive. We fought like rabid dogs for 9 months- titanic battles, sweeping offensives, huge winter counter-offensive. I began to notice that even though my units suffered greatly from disorganization (as no doubt the Germans too), most of my ground units were at full strength. I then used a cheat to switch sides to check out the state of the German armies in the East. They entire German army in the East was at full-strength.
I simply couldn't play the game anymore after that. For all the awesome things about the game, its all a façade. The core game mechanics are strange in the extreme, though its mostly hidden from the player. You could call it "EU3: The Battle of the Manpower Pools".
Ouch.
The Manpower Pool thing is doable but if your units have losses instantly replaced without any negative side effect, that is worrisome.
I am saddened to report that, because I truly love HOI3. I even tried to mod the game to fix it by increasing the cost of replacements. Unfortunately, the game itself is balanced on cheap replacements. I broke the balance in other parts of the game trying to fix it.
Quote from: Swatter on June 07, 2014, 02:03:19 PM
I would say HOI3 is an awesome game, except for one giant, super-huge fault: the way the replacement system works. In essence, forces on the front lines never become depleted no matter how intense the fighting.
Well...Hmmm...that is, um, disappointing to say the least. Especially since I just bought the package with the expansions and DLC for $11, which is a good deal. I had hoped that I could overcome the "dive in and learn" hurdle that Jarhead points out. I usually find I like games if I can make that first commitment, but the game mechanic detailed above lends a sense of futility to it all.
Forget about that flaw and just play the game. Maybe it's there for balance and fun.
Which version are you playing Swatter? I played an unmodded (except of gfx tweaks) grand campaign with the latest version of Their Finest Hour as France. I had a prolonged war with Germany along the border and at the end of it, my national manpower reserves were completely drained. Had a zero rating for several months and many of my units were at 1/2 strength or less.
Quote from: jomni on June 08, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
Forget about that flaw and just play the game. Maybe it's there for balance and fun.
Amen! Great advice for just about any game. All games have warts and flaws of some sort.
Quote from: jomni on June 08, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
Forget about that flaw and just play the game. Maybe it's there for balance and fun.
Agreed. I don't see why the replacement system would be a deal breaker for anyone but the most anal retentive groghead. There are plenty of other things one could criticize the game about from a perspective of realism...not sure why choose this.
It's a great game.
Quote from: Ian C on June 07, 2014, 11:48:38 AM
Quote from: Boggit on June 07, 2014, 07:31:19 AM
I've had some really good feedback about the mod - a couple of questions though - before I download
Does it overwrite the Vanilla HOI3 TFH, or does it have a separate mod folder?
How stable is the beta, or am I beta off (pun intended! ;) ) taking the last "release" version? Can you confirm which version is the most stable?
Thanks. :)
It doesn't overwrite the vanilla. The mod installs to a mod folder and you select it from the main HOI startup screen by selecting the mod box as you would any other mod.
It's totally stable. Don't forget to install the hotfix too.
On all counts, it's a safe choice.
Great! thanks Ian C :)
Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on June 08, 2014, 10:31:53 PM
Which version are you playing Swatter? I played an unmodded (except of gfx tweaks) grand campaign with the latest version of Their Finest Hour as France. I had a prolonged war with Germany along the border and at the end of it, my national manpower reserves were completely drained. Had a zero rating for several months and many of my units were at 1/2 strength or less.
Your observations are exactly in line with mine. The thing is that some countries take a long time to run out of manpower, if ever. So, until the instant they run out of manpower, they will field a full-strength army at all times.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 09, 2014, 06:49:19 AM
Quote from: jomni on June 08, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
Forget about that flaw and just play the game. Maybe it's there for balance and fun.
Agreed. I don't see why the replacement system would be a deal breaker for anyone but the most anal retentive groghead. There are plenty of other things one could criticize the game about from a perspective of realism...not sure why choose this.
It's a great game.
I agree with the great game sentiment. It's not about being anal-retentive, its about immersion. If the creators only intended the game to be about strategic factors, there is no need to conduct operations at the division scale. That is why the replacement system messes things up. Your tactical orders are somewhat artificial, not really affecting things in the way you think they are. It is also the cause of strange behavior in other parts of the game, particularly in China. It is also why offensives never really peter out, they only briefly pause when organization falls too low. Coupled with the weather system, the replacement system is why there is no real ebb and flow in HOI3. Offensives (except when specific "weather" events occurs) never really stop. It is the reason why they insert artificial means (powerful events like the General Winter) to balance the game.